Why Watch In English/Japanese...?

[NeptuneKai]

Mr.EX isn't a bad guy, he understands a lot of the time and rarely bans anyone if he can avoid it.

Anyway getting back on topic, I really don't like Babidi's Japanese voice. That's the one case where I definitely have to side with the dub. I also think the dub nailed Pilaf's voice.

[Rocketman]

While a "constipated" English kamehameha versus Nozawa's amazing scream was more than enough for me, if it isn't enough for you

It's amazing what you can do when you compare the worst of something to the best of something else. Maybe try US Movie 12 Goku's scream as he goes SSJ3?

[VegettoEX]

It's sort of funny how you guys ask for an opinion on why we don't like the dub and when we answer you get offended and post such sarcastic comments like you are being attacked.

This is actually one of the main reasons why these threads end up being locked.

It's a regular ol' trait of being a human being, and it gets emphasized on the web. When someone's asking something about why you think something, what they're (more often than not) really saying (not actually "asking") is "My opinion is right, and I can't believe you think that way."

DB, for example. Dub fans ask why people like the Japanese version. What they're really asking is, "How can you possibly like it? The dub is better." When people ask which voice cast (FUNimation or Ocean) people like, what they're really saying is, "The cast that I like is the best."

And it's not even always a dub-fan thing. I've seen plenty of Japanese-version fans do the same thing. The whole problem, recently, is that's it's almost always dub fans getting up-in-arms about these kinds of discussions, and these days, it's almost always the dub fans who start them in the first place. Perhaps it's divine retribution for the mid/late-90s, but it's still a situation.

I believe this quote is attributed to Dave Barry:

"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them."

[NeptuneKai]

While a "constipated" English kamehameha versus Nozawa's amazing scream was more than enough for me, if it isn't enough for you

It's amazing what you can do when you compare the worst of something to the best of something else. Maybe try US Movie 12 Goku's scream as he goes SSJ3?

While I don't really like English Goku's movie 12 scream or any dub scream in general I have to agree. Although the thing with Sean is not really his voice I think it’s the voice direction they keep giving him and everyone else. They don't really need to scream their lungs out most of the time or be so over exaggerated with their noises.

[SSJ2bardock]

I see where your coming from, but I haven't once in this post said something along the lines of "Japanese sucks, English is better".

[Anonymous Friend]

Like a lot of people I started watching Dragonball on Cartoon Network. I was eighteen.

Before this though, I had heard of this Japanimation called Dragonball Z that was supposed to be really cool and wanted to know what all the fuss was about. Everytime I walked down Fulton street in the Bronx there was this store that had a Dragonball video game in the window. I had also heard that one of the local station would be showing it at 5:30am and tried many times to catch it. I did ine time and if I remember correct it was Gohan stuck on top of the mountain.

Once I found out that it was coming to CN (like two or three days before it aired) I was really excited. My only real experience to anime before this (that I knew were anime) were Sailor Moon, Ronin Warriors, and Tecknoman. I was also familiar with localization and changes that was done to things in order for it to be aired. Although, I would find out what was actually changed until I started frequenting forums about the show around the same time I joined up here.

Whatever intial changes were made for the sake of keeping it safe for the target demo were things that couldn't be helped because of who was in charge in because of era that it was shown. I believe that the changes that were made to "improve" the show and make it hipper were made because the show had to succeed. Now, we all know that the original product was going to be awesome as it was, but they company had to be absolutely sure. Like someone said before, it was showed but for whatever reason it did not succeed.

Now that FUNi does more anime besides Dragonball they pretty much follow the originals more closely. And I think that there may be two reasons why they have kept what they have done. One, they just don't have the availability to change everything. A slight re-dub with one or two VA correcting/changing a few lines is easier than calling everyone back and starting over.

And two, they really like their interpretation of the series and although they have fixed a few things here and there, for the most part it will stay the same. I know that a lot of people would just want a translated version with english voices but that probably won't be happening.

I like to think of myself as being very open minded and willing to try things multiple times. I know I would have stuck with a direct dub of the series. Not everyone is like me. I really can't speak for people half my age ten years ago and whatnot. I always find it hard to discuss this issue in today's day when we all know how great the show is NOW. Especially with how far anime has come since then and how current "new" shows are being produced. Heck, Cartoon Network is not the same network as it was then.

[DemonKingPiccolo]

My least favorite dub scene is the "Ally to good, nightmare to you!" speech. It doesn't come anywhere close to the original script.

The SSj2 Gohan ascension scene is also one of my least fave dub scenes. In the dub, there's too much extra monolgue during the post transformation shot. In the original, there were no lines said, and it simply had that song playing in the background, which really brought justice to the fact that Gohan's power was something which no one could predict or control.

Goku's Super Saiyan ascension also pissed me off in the dub. In the dub, Schemmel made it sound like he was trying to transform, while Ms Nazowaka definitely made it sound like Goku was just really pissed off (the way it's supposed to be).

[SSJ2bardock]

My least favorite dub scene is the "Ally to good, nightmare to you!" speech. It doesn't come anywhere close to the original script.

The SSj2 Gohan ascension scene is also one of my least fave dub scenes. In the dub, there's too much extra monolgue during the post transformation shot. In the original, there were no lines said, and it simply had that song playing in the background, which really brought justice to the fact that Gohan's power was something which no one could predict or control.

Goku's Super Saiyan ascension also pissed me off in the dub. In the dub, Schemmel made it sound like he was trying to transform, while Ms Nazowaka definitely made it sound like Goku was just really pissed off (the way it's supposed to be).

I haven't seen the original scenes so I can't compare them, but I thought even though Goku's post transformation speech may have been a tad corny it was still very good and got the point across. Also, I really like Schemmel as Goku, I think he does a great job.

[TripleRach]

I started watching the dub, but I have no nostalgia or loyalty towards it at all. I found out about alterations done to it, and I wanted to see what the series was originally supposed to be like. And I preferred it that way. I find the acting to be much higher quality, I find the scripts and music to be less obnoxious, and I find both the comedic and emotional scenes to generally be handled better.

As for Ms. Nozawa, I watched more of DB in Japanese than DBZ at first, and she absolutely adored me as the child Gokuu. The transition to voicing him as an adult just made perfect sense to me, in the same way that it makes sense for Nancy Cartwright to still voice Bart Simpson in the scenes involving the future. I can't even think "This is a woman's voice" anymore. All I think is "This is Gokuu's voice."

Meanwhile, not only do I not find Stephanie Nadolny's child Gokuu to be cute at all, but the sound of that voice is extremely unpleasant to me, along with her apparently inability to use contractions, and she and Sean Schemmel do not even remotely sound like they're playing the same character.

So that's why I like watching the series in Japanese. But I must throw in my usual response to the ever present "Japanese Gokuu is too high pitched" complaint: and Schemmel isn't? I mean, that guy is no Tony Jay here. And Nozawa does have a pretty deep voice for a woman; just compare her to most of the seiyuu that voice the female characters.

[Rocketman]

which really brought justice to the fact that Gohan's power was something which no one could predict or control.

Goku predicted it, and Gohan controlled it when he bamf'd back up to SSJ2 when Cell came back.

Goku's Super Saiyan ascension also pissed me off in the dub. In the dub, Schemmel made it sound like he was trying to transform, while Ms Nazowaka definitely made it sound like Goku was just really pissed off (the way it's supposed to be).

As I've said before, three minutes of grunting is trying to make something happen, whether the grunting is rrrrrrrrRRRrrr or kkkkkkKKKKkkkk.

[Sun_Wukong]

he English dub and original Japanese adaption are almost like two completely different shows. I like the Japanese version better, as it is what I think Dragon Ball is.

Bout sums it up

[Kid Trunks]

Some things are better in the dub, some better in the sub for me. The transformations seem to be the biggest examples. For example :

- I like Gohan's SSj2 transformation better in Japanese,
- I like Future Trunks' SSj transformation better in Japanese,
- I like Vegeta's SSj transformation better in the dub,
- I like Goku's SSj3 transformation better in the dub.

[Vekurotto]

Let's see,

1) The dub voices aren't anything expect usual stereotypes

2) The script is absolute horror, bastardization, and makes me cry at how bad and inaccurate it is.

3) The acting is weak.

4) The dub gives reason for people to rag on Dragonball

5) Funi acts like they made the series.

6) The dub music is dating itself to be called "music that people in 2000 thought was awesome but really isn't"

try selling a Makankosappo to an American audience that it most likely between the ages of 9 and 12 and probably doesn't speak Japanese. Some of these changes were necessary for the show to thrive in the US.

Exactly try selling a Naruto or a Rurouni Kenshin with Japanese names and attacks to an American audience that it most likely between the ages of 9 and 12 and probably doesn't speak Japanese, oh wait.... everything down to the attacks are left in Japanese, people don't give a shit, and they are both also popular with kids from 6-12. Also, what's so hard about simply translating the attack names Makankosappo into "Demon Light Screw" and another called Kikohou into "Ki Blast Cannon" instead of words that you could only come up with by celebrating 420 and then watching a DB character do that move? Why keep "Kamehameha"? Last I checked, that was Japanese for "Giant Turtle Wave".

Seriously man, these changes were just stupid especially since I watch the Mexican dub and they kept all of the attacks in Japanese and even left things like Kakarrotto and Saiyajin pronounced like Sci-Ya-Jin instead of Say-yun and last I checked the Mexican people, outside of a few things aren't that different from Americans.

Anything else I can say about the dub I posted in the "What's Wrong with DBZ" thread but I'll post it again for your enjoyment.

Concerning the dub. I think that if whoever wrote this should have mentioned that it's really annoying that everything, DB anime related, has to become dub-centric if Funimation's going to have a say in it. Really, I seriously hate having to look at nearly all of the DBZ related DVDs that Funimation's put out out there because not only are they so terrible looking, but they also only tell you what happens dub wise. Rarely any mention of what's happening on the Japanese side other than the copyrights to Toei and that the Japanese audio exists. However, you'd rarely know that unless you looked for these things. Hell, Funi goes around and touts DBZ, moreso than DB and GT, like they fucking created it or it was some obscure little known Japanese TV show until they got it, and then it became big. Then there's the treatment of the video games. Goku's speech in BT 1 and 2. I'm playing the games, in Japanese, and I'm like, "Hey, these are translated better than anything Funi's done with the anime." then I get to Goku's speech in the Freeza saga after he turns Super Saiyan and then, to my surprise, They fucking changed it to "ALLY TO FUCKING GOOD NIGHTMARE TO FUCKING YOU!!!11!11!!!11" or something in vain of that, instead of what he's supposed to say. And the thing that pisses me off about that is that the games are translated well, however Funimation deliberately changes stuff all because, either the just can, or because they wanted it to "match" whatever was said in the dub. Again, it's like Funimation, sometimes, acts like they made DBZ. And this brings me to another thing.

I think it's really bad that you want to watch DB/Z dubbed then you'll have to check the dub against the sub for dialogue or character changes and even get confused at the random changes to character motives, the unexplainable plot changes, and all the other crap that you occasionally have to deal with in the dub. I mean imagine, if somebody never saw DB in their life and wanted to start from the very beginning, how do you explain things like when Tenshinhan says Spirit-Cannon" at the 22nd Budokai then only for it to later change into "Tri-Beam" Better yet how do you explain, the Boo saga in the dub. I know many dub fans hate that saga because of dub errors more than anything, and why people suddenly 'forget' information that they should already know like Bulma saying she's known Goku since he was 4 and Gero being the leader of the RRA when they would have already seen that Red was the leader...

I'm not an anime dub hater either, I've watched nearly all of the Gundam series, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, all of the Tenchi series/movies/and OVAs, and Rurouni Kenshin TV dubbed and rarely was I missing anything. I even actually prefer to watch those series dubbed over subbed because of the sheer fact that I'm not missing much other than a few voices from the sub version. However I just hate bad dubs and guess what? Like the DBZ dub or not, Funimation just did not dub DBZ properly. And no the "Watch it in Japanese if you hate the dub" argument can't really apply because, why is it that there's something compelling me to make myself watch something in a language that an average english speaker can't understand in the first place? And why is it that if the language version I can understand is more confusing context than trying to figure out what a baby is thinking? In all honestly in an anime dub you should never ever feel like forcing yourself to watch it in Japanese since the dub would be nearly identical to the sub. This has happened and it's possible. Granted there are some untranslatable things that could never make it to an English dub and the Japanese audio does have a more authentic feel, but even now, the only real reason why people feel like they don't need to watch dubs are because they think they're terrible, and with stuff like the DB/Z dubs, I don't blame their line of thinking since something like this only should add fuel to their flames.

And honestly, I'd be more forgiving on Funimation's dubbing of the DB franchise if they said that whatever they've done to DB was in no relation to the Japanese original like Robotech and Power Rangers. Outside of the fact that Harmony Gold and Saban/Disney, respectively, used the same footage, Robotech bares no relation to Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada and Power Rangers bares no resemblance to the various Super Sentai series they are based from. Those series, in fact, are different shows. DB/Z dubbed and DB/Z subbed are not. They are the same show except that the English version is very mistranslated and sometimes deliberately, mishandled.

Also from that I'd like to say, I'd rather watch something in another language if it means that I'm getting the correct information and voices that are more tolerable and give better insight to a character if my own language does not include any of that.

[Super Sonic]

Well, also remember some name changes are necessary. Though DBZ isn't really one of them, some series have fans who would be really angry if certain Japanese names were in the English version.

Also with the Kakarotto thing, are we sure it's not just an added syllable? When started buying DBZ dvds, also started buying Outlaw Star. Keeping "Gene Starwindo" and "Firecato" sound rather strange, if they did that.

[Vekurotto]

Also with the Kakarotto thing, are we sure it's not just an added syllable?

In a way I'm really not sure but there are times which make me believe that Kakarrotto is actually the name hence why Vegetto's name isn't Vegett for example and then there's the ugly looking "Kakarott-o" in Funi's subtitles for the Broli movies...

And Super Sonic, you might be missing the point, I'm saying that if something is "too hard" for the English actors by god translate the names into a proper English translation rather than making up random names.

[Jerseymilk]

Well everyone here knows me enough to know which version I prefer so I won't get into it, plus Rachel pretty much summed up a lot of what I'd say since we tend to have the same views when it comes to DB.

I will disagree with Kid Trunks' opinion on Vegeta's SSJ transformation being better in the dub than sub. The main reason? Funi(as they seemed to love to often do), completely changed the cause for him attaining SSJ for no reason at all. He did not finally ascend because of some "quasi-zen epiphany" where he didn't care about anything anymore. He ascended because he was full of so much rage at that point at *not* being able to attain it, that that was the trigger that pushed him over the edge finally. This is exactly the same as how Goku was pushed over the edge when he ascended. He was so full of anger at seeing his best friend from childhood ruthlessly murdered before his eyes without a second thought. Not to mention the change was completely out of character for Vegeta to start with. Quiet philosophical moments aren't Vegeta. Being pissed off and determined is Vegeta.

Plus I never bought the whole argument about having to make a ton of changes for cultural reasons(racism/sexism issues aren't what I mean here), because people in another country, especially kids wouldn't get it or it won't appeal to them. That is just small-minded thinking and it's a simple case of people undermining the intelligence of children.

I think I could forgive the bad/stereotypical voice acting, edits, music changes, the fear of having *any* scenes with silence, etc. However, the constant messing around and changing of facts or aspects of characters for no logical reason at all? That's what really causes me to continually dismiss Funi's dub as not worth my time.

[Vegeta Jr]

Well everyone here knows me enough to know which version I prefer so I won't get into it, plus Rachel pretty much summed up a lot of what I'd say since we tend to have the same views when it comes to DB.

I will disagree with Kid Trunks' opinion on Vegeta's SSJ transformation being better in the dub than sub. The main reason? Funi(as they seemed to love to often do), completely changed the cause for him attaining SSJ for no reason at all. He did not finally ascend because of some "quasi-zen epiphany" where he didn't care about anything anymore. He ascended because he was full of so much rage at that point at *not* being able to attain it, that that was the trigger that pushed him over the edge finally. This is exactly the same as how Goku was pushed over the edge when he asceded. He was so full of anger at seeing his best friend from childhood ruthlessly murdered before his eyes without a second thought. Not to mention the change was completely out of character for Vegeta to start with. Quiet philosophical moments aren't Vegeta. Being pissed off and determined is Vegeta.

Plus I never bought the whole argument about having to make a ton of changes for cultural reasons(racism/sexism issues aren't what I mean here), because people in another country, especially kids would get it or it won't appeal to them. That is just small-minded thinking and it's a simple case of people undermining the intelligence of children.

I think I could forgive the bad/stereotypical voice acting, edits, music changes, the fear of having *any* scenes with silence, etc., I could probably overlook. However, the constant messing around and changing of facts or aspects of characters for no logical reason at all? That's what really causes me to continually dismiss Funi's dub as not worth my time.

Agreed about the Vegeta aspect, in the dub it was completely out of character.

[Vekurotto]

^I'd also like to add that the dub of SSJ Vegeta, and about Super Saiyans when they were new, that you have to be pure hearted to became a Super Saiyan and that Vegeta became a Super Saiyan because he had a pure heart, but it was pure-evil. I mean a fact like that is important and everybody should know it but thanks to the dub...

Just curious, how did Movie 7 handle the Genki Dama coming to Goku because he was pure? I have a feeling since Funi took the "pure- hearted" information out of the TV series than the movie's ending must have been pretty incoherent.

[Super Sonic]

I forget. I just remember, that movie wasn't dubbed that well, except for the jumping fish line that still makes me laugh.

[Vegeta Jr]

I forget. I just remember, that movie wasn't dubbed that well, except for the jumping fish line that still makes me laugh.

You mean the Vegeta and Piccolo scene at the end, yea that was so unneccesary yet so hilarious.