Saiyan Pride

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:34 pm

Do you think Vegeta actually has 'Saiyan' pride or do you just think he is using that to mask his own selfish pride?

I just thought i should bring it up because i can't recall any other Saiyan acting on this Saiyan pride Vegeta always goes on about.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:38 pm

I think to actually does... I'm also certain Goku, to an extent,, gains pride in his Saiyan heritage as the series progresses.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:09 pm

Raditz seemed pretty proud about being a Saiyan. Nappa didn't as much, though.

aegoku · Post by **aegoku** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:15 pm

I also think that Vegeta is proud of his Saiyan heritage. I think that a lot of his pride comes from his high social rank. After all, he IS Prince of the Saiyans. I think I'd be pretty proud of my race if I was the Prince of it.

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:18 pm

I don't know if dragging the Bardock special into this is going to help, but Toriyami himself considers it canon.

In the special doesn't Vegeta kind of not care that his planet and his people were killed?

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:34 pm

True, but when he is near death he tells Goku not just to kill Freeza, but to kill Freeza with his SAIYAN hand.

I think that speaks volumes about his racial pride.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:50 pm

Vegeta Jr wrote:
In the special doesn't Vegeta kind of not care that his planet and his people were killed?

Yeah, I never liked that scene. vegeta might not be the most caring guy around, but that's not the way he'd react to his entire family, race and home planet being destroyed.

There's also that ridiculous filler flashback in the late Freeza saga that told us Vegeta not only knew Freeza had destroyed planet Vegeta, but that he didn't care about it at all. When that episode aired it had been established time and again during the series that not only did Vegeta not know until Dodoria told him, but he was NOT happy about it.

Stupid filler. Probably the worst filler scene in the entire series.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:25 pm

Adamant wrote:
Vegeta Jr wrote:
In the special doesn't Vegeta kind of not care that his planet and his people were killed?
Yeah, I never liked that scene. vegeta might not be the most caring guy around, but that's not the way he'd react to his entire family, race and home planet being destroyed.

There's also that ridiculous filler flashback in the late Freeza saga that told us Vegeta not only knew Freeza had destroyed planet Vegeta, but that he didn't care about it at all. When that episode aired it had been established time and again during the series that not only did Vegeta not know until Dodoria told him, but he was NOT happy about it.

Stupid filler. Probably the worst filler scene in the entire series.

Hmm... This would make a good inconsistency topic, actually. I mean, it's pretty glaring, don't you think?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:21 am

Adamant wrote:
Vegeta Jr wrote:
In the special doesn't Vegeta kind of not care that his planet and his people were killed?
Yeah, I never liked that scene. vegeta might not be the most caring guy around, but that's not the way he'd react to his entire family, race and home planet being destroyed.

There's also that ridiculous filler flashback in the late Freeza saga that told us Vegeta not only knew Freeza had destroyed planet Vegeta, but that he didn't care about it at all. When that episode aired it had been established time and again during the series that not only did Vegeta not know until Dodoria told him, but he was NOT happy about it.

Stupid filler. Probably the worst filler scene in the entire series.

"Don't be mistaken, Dodoria. I couldn't care less about my planet, my comrades, or my parents..."

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:53 am

^
Yeah, and that filler scene doesn't completely negate the Dodoria scene. Vegeta pauses for a moment, and says he was disgusted at having been used. His thoughts on his homeworld aren't made clear, beyond the fact that he couldn't care less. So an earlier scene where he suspects Freeza but isn't strong enough to go against him doesn't really hurt that. And even if it is a small stretch, it is far from the worst filler.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:55 am

I think Vegeta did care when he heard in the Bardock special. It came across like he was in shock.

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:10 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:I think Vegeta did care when he heard in the Bardock special. It came across like he was in shock.

From what I remember all he says about it is, 'so' or 'oh'.

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:46 pm

"Don't be mistaken, Dodoria. I couldn't care less about my planet, my comrades, or my parents..."

It doesn't mean he doesn't care at all. Maybe he's just acting cold, not to look like a fool or a whimp in front of Dodoria. If he really didn't care, he wouldn't ask Goku to avenge his people, I think.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:00 pm

All he really said was that Freeza killed everyone because he was afraid of the Super Saiyan, and that Freeza must die by the hands of a Saiyan.

It's not like he was trying to use the dragon balls to wish back his people, like a decent ruler might have been thinking. I know this wouldn't have worked, but Vegeta didn't know the rules at that point. But he makes his position clear when Raditz dies- why wish back a comrade when I can wish for immortality. He really only cared about personal power, and he was confident that he owed that power to his Saiyan heritage.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:15 pm

I'm guessing it's because Vegeta was supposed to die unrepentant and never become a good guy. He was supposed to be the vicious space pirate who doesn't care about his comrades (kills one of them for no reason), is cold, calculating and ruthless, doesn't care about his family except for the fact that his heritage gave him his strength, and would've killed the good guys at any time, except they had to team up to fight someone worse.

It's only after Vegeta migrates through anti-villain to anti-hero that he starts blathering about "Saiyan pride" and honor and whatnot. Maybe going to Hell changed his outlook.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:02 pm

Yeah.... agree 100%

Vegeta in the Cell Saga, especially after RoSaT, is an entirely different (and far more nauseating) character. It's like he subsisted for a year on a diet of his own ego.

In the Freeza Saga he's using stealth, deception, and basically any tactic to win. He assaults warriors when they are weakened, from behind, or while out cold. He has himself healed to benefit from a power increase. He works with his enemies. He even threw dirt in Zarbon's eyes.

Yet in the Cell Saga it's "true warriors" this and "saiyan pride" that. He refuses let's Cell become perfect. He refuses senzu. He won't work with anyone. He really just went from one of the coolest characters on the show to an utter tool that I wanted to die.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:04 pm

Onikage725 wrote:Yeah.... agree 100%

Vegeta in the Cell Saga, especially after RoSaT, is an entirely different (and far more nauseating) character. It's like he subsisted for a year on a diet of his own ego.

In the Freeza Saga he's using stealth, deception, and basically any tactic to win. He assaults warriors when they are weakened, from behind, or while out cold. He has himself healed to benefit from a power increase. He works with his enemies. He even threw dirt in Zarbon's eyes.

Yet in the Cell Saga it's "true warriors" this and "saiyan pride" that. He refuses let's Cell become perfect. He refuses senzu. He won't work with anyone. He really just went from one of the coolest characters on the show to an utter tool that I wanted to die.

Seconded for truthiness.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:21 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:Seconded for truthiness.

Please be sure to add some type of content to your posts. You do not need to respond just to say "I agree"; it does not actually add anything of substance to the conversation. Thanks.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:39 pm

Onikage725 wrote:Yeah.... agree 100%

Vegeta in the Cell Saga, especially after RoSaT, is an entirely different (and far more nauseating) character. It's like he subsisted for a year on a diet of his own ego.

Well, he did become a Super Saiyan. I can buy his personality changed with becoming what he had always been told was effectively a god.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:48 pm

Onikage725 wrote:...

True, I absolutely hated Vegeta during the Androids arc. After he emerges from rosat though, he didn't feel as much as a nuisance to me. Even though his idiotic decisions continued afterwards.

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Saiyan Pride

Saiyan Pride

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