Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Grand Marshal 1
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:59 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:44 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:39 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:21 pm

I agree Super Buu being 3X SSJ3 Goku. over 8x more is ridiculous if you ask me. Especially since being 2x stronger means a whole lot more then people realize
Agreed. Which is why I once scaled nearly all of GT without the classic "GoKu BEcAme 40p TimEs StroNger "

Koitsukai had his piece of info thrown into it as well. And you know? It worked out!

If base Goku can defeat someone many times stronger without getting SS tho, it's the plot demanding it. We can't accurately scale these instances. Just let it be like that. Other times tho, yes, a difference less than 2 times can change the course of the battle.

We shouldn't overthink some stuff is what I'm saying.
I posted my power levels earlier in the thread. What do you think about Buu saga Goku being like 64M and Super Buu being 75B
I don't think that numbers can truly allow for someone to fully grasp the difference in power among individuals. I mean, it's super specific power scaling. And I have mixed feelings for Z. As in "wasn't Goku scaled to still be at 3m in base?".

But since I believe that getting stronger is a thing in Z, I don't think that your numbers are wrong. But I am personally a fan of small numbers. As in Super Buu could be at below 20B. But it's just me. Your numbers are consistent with their scaling, so I think it's correct.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Mon May 25, 2020 5:04 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:59 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:44 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 4:39 pm

Agreed. Which is why I once scaled nearly all of GT without the classic "GoKu BEcAme 40p TimEs StroNger "

Koitsukai had his piece of info thrown into it as well. And you know? It worked out!

If base Goku can defeat someone many times stronger without getting SS tho, it's the plot demanding it. We can't accurately scale these instances. Just let it be like that. Other times tho, yes, a difference less than 2 times can change the course of the battle.

We shouldn't overthink some stuff is what I'm saying.
I posted my power levels earlier in the thread. What do you think about Buu saga Goku being like 64M and Super Buu being 75B
I don't think that numbers can truly allow for someone to fully grasp the difference in power among individuals. I mean, it's super specific power scaling. And I have mixed feelings for Z. As in "wasn't Goku scaled to still be at 3m in base?".

But since I believe that getting stronger is a thing in Z, I don't think that your numbers are wrong. But I am personally a fan of small numbers. As in Super Buu could be at below 20B. But it's just me. Your numbers are consistent with their scaling, so I think it's correct.
I enjoy the lower numbers but events just contradict them I found. I originally tried to place Buu Goku at around 15-19M
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm

So, since I'm assuming this is the correct thread for this kind of question, how would guys compare Multiverse to Super? If we assume it would be a slaughterfest because of Super's admittedly wonky scaling, then think of it in a narrative perspective that could mix both settings.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:07 am

Thani wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm So, since I'm assuming this is the correct thread for this kind of question, how would guys compare Multiverse to Super? If we assume it would be a slaughterfest because of Super's admittedly wonky scaling, then think of it in a narrative perspective that could mix both settings.
I'll use Vegito to compare with random numbers to scale. Going by BoG SSG being a 10, and BoG Vegito a 7 (and Z Vegito being a 6 because little time went by), a well-trained Vegito like in MV could be easily a 9 or even a 10, actually maybe more if he trained for so long with a teenage Bra.
Forgive my lack of memory, it's been a Brafest for too long, but IIRC there was a shirtless Buuhan that absorbed Vegito in his universe before Vegito disappeared. That Buu rivaled Vegito or thought he could? cant' remember but I would put him close to SSG, like an 8.
SS2 Majin Bra has to be right up there with his father, at least an 8 or 9. After so many senzu beans and zenkais, she probably is a solid 10 by now or more.

They both die at the hands of Golden Freeza, however they would beat FF Freeza. I guess, Vegito and Bra can individually beat every U6 member except Hit. Although Vegito definitely has the brains to hack the time skip and with his SSG level of power he take Hit, who without that move isn't remarkable. Bra looks like she would let the blood go to her head and become a piece of cake for Hit. But she can take Kale and Caulifla together. They are both ashes against Kefla though.

For the manga, Vegito is more than enough for Hit, he soloes U6 and can fuck Black up, probably Bra can do the same. Vegito and Bra working together could definitely prevent Zamasu from healing Black and kill him immediately. They would do pretty great at the ToP, they could probably take Dyspo but Hit would be way out of their league now. Caulifla isn't a threat but SS Kale is.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Limitless123 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:44 pm

More of these because why not? I don't intend on adding any footnotes throughout the list, but these three are the cornerstones of understanding what these numbers mean:

1. Power Levels simply represents the amount of Ki (Life energy) in someone's body. This would mean "power gaps" have little relevance as how this Ki is channeled into power (Not to mention physical advantages, such as an Androids' resilience or Burta's speed), not to talk about a characters' experience in combat and their state of mind (Holding back, afraid, bloodlusted etc) in battle.

2. Taking the above into consideration, the numbers presented for the first half of the series are from a different, more appropriate scale, as the small numbers from part I makes scaling rather... thight, not to mention a real headache. This is due to Ki size not being as important here as it becomes in the later half of the series.

Also, multipliers are bullshit.

So, here's some random numbers.

Hunt for the Dragon Balls
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The 21st Budokai
Spoiler:

The Red Ribbon Army
Spoiler:

Uranai Baba's Warriors
Spoiler:

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
Spoiler:

Piccolo Daimao Arc
Spoiler:

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
Spoiler:

Normal Scouter scaling for now onwards.

Saiyan Arc
Spoiler:

Freeza Arc
Spoiler:

Cell Arc
Spoiler:

Boo Arc
Spoiler:

The true sequel to Dragon Ball
In units of billions
Spoiler:
Power Levels:
Main Series + GT
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:20 pm

You know, Legends start screen got me wondering:

Image

f you could set a multiplier, how much would be difference in power between this two?



Note: use RoF SSJB to measure as I know the pic shows FT arc SSJB which is marginally stronger.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:00 pm

Noah wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:20 pm You know, Legends start screen got me wondering:

Image

f you could set a multiplier, how much would be difference in power between this two?



Note: use RoF SSJB to measure as I know the pic shows FT arc SSJB which is marginally stronger.
Going by the anime, and that base Vegito is already stronger than Buuhan, from base Vegito we need 50x to get to Super Vegito, who is weaker than SSG, who knows by what margin, and lowballing (assuming Goku meant SSG >Super Vegito), then at least twice that to be at SSG level, that would be 100x difference from base Vegito to SSG Goku (keep in mind this would mean SSG = SS2 Vegito)
SSB is 50x SSG, so from base Vegito to RoF SSB there is needed a 5,000x boost. A 1,000x boost for the manga.

Now, how much stronger is base Vegito than SS2 Gohan? 10-20x stronger for the anime, maybe twice for the manga with base Vegito being a mystery.

Then from SS2 Gohan to SSB Goku there is at least a 2,000x gap for the manga, and at least a 50,000-100,000x gap for the anime. If Goku meant SS3 Vegito would be useless vs Beerus, then the gap is much bigger.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:29 am

Noah wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:20 pm If you could set a multiplier, how much would be difference in power between this two?
Note: use RoF SSJB to measure as I know the pic shows FT arc SSJB which is marginally stronger.
Agreed with Koitsukai, but I'll try to give it a try as well.

This is a low-ball calculation based solely from what's shown in the series, keeping head-canon to a minimum:

SS2 Goku > SS2 Gohan = 1 (Base on Vegeta pointing out that they've already surpassed Gohan by the time of the Buu arc)
Base Vegetto > SS3 Goku = 4 (Based on Vegetto performing much better than SS3 Goku against Buuhan in the Anime)
SSG Goku > SS3 Vegetto = 1600 (Based on SSG being on a whole different realm of power & the idea of fusion being discarded)
SSB Goku < 10x SSG Goku = at least 16,000 (Based on SSG Goku performing better than 10% SSB Vegeta against Hit in the Manga)

The difference is much greater than 20k times, but I can totally see Goku going "Oh wOw I fOrgOt my sOn wAs thIs strOnK" when Gohan inevitably ends up winning against Goku with a beam struggle due to rule of cool.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by despayeeto593 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:51 pm

How strong do you guys have Super Buu? I'm making my Buu Saga power levels, and I don't know if I should have him and Gotenks at like 2x SSJ3 Goku or at like 8x.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:02 pm

despayeeto593 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:51 pm How strong do you guys have Super Buu? I'm making my Buu Saga power levels, and I don't know if I should have him and Gotenks at like 2x SSJ3 Goku or at like 8x.
Imo a 2× for Super Buu is okay. Gotenks is sometimes overhyped.

For that matter, Buutenks is a 4× and Buuhan around a +5× SS3, with Enraged getting at least twice as strong, if not more times to prove some of an obstacle to Super Vegito. Now, it's up to you whether Vegito is 50× or 10× as a Super Saiyan.

And it isn't rly factual, as shown in Super.

Ultimate Gohan is somewhere around 3×SS3 and SS3 Gotenks at 2×SS3

I haven't scaled the Buu saga in a while, so I may contradict something, but massive gaps ain't my thing. I believe the whole Buu saga remained within the scale of 10×SS3.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:02 pm
despayeeto593 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:51 pm How strong do you guys have Super Buu? I'm making my Buu Saga power levels, and I don't know if I should have him and Gotenks at like 2x SSJ3 Goku or at like 8x.
Imo a 2× for Super Buu is okay. Gotenks is sometimes overhyped.

For that matter, Buutenks is a 4× and Buuhan around a +5× SS3, with Enraged getting at least twice as strong, if not more times to prove some of an obstacle to Super Vegito. Now, it's up to you whether Vegito is 50× or 10× as a Super Saiyan.

And it isn't rly factual, as shown in Super.

Ultimate Gohan is somewhere around 3×SS3 and SS3 Gotenks at 2×SS3

I haven't scaled the Buu saga in a while, so I may contradict something, but massive gaps ain't my thing. I believe the whole Buu saga remained within the scale of 10×SS3.
I put Super Buu at 3X SSJ3 Goku. It puts him at a comfortable distance away from Goku and allows SSJ1 Gotenks to be SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level of power. Buutenks Is more like Gotenks SSJ3 + Super Buu + Piccolo. Then Buuhan starts as Super Buu+Goten+Trunks+Piccolo+Gohan only to then shoot up when angered. My thoughts at least. Any others are valid
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:08 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:02 pm
despayeeto593 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:51 pm How strong do you guys have Super Buu? I'm making my Buu Saga power levels, and I don't know if I should have him and Gotenks at like 2x SSJ3 Goku or at like 8x.
Imo a 2× for Super Buu is okay. Gotenks is sometimes overhyped.

For that matter, Buutenks is a 4× and Buuhan around a +5× SS3, with Enraged getting at least twice as strong, if not more times to prove some of an obstacle to Super Vegito. Now, it's up to you whether Vegito is 50× or 10× as a Super Saiyan.

And it isn't rly factual, as shown in Super.

Ultimate Gohan is somewhere around 3×SS3 and SS3 Gotenks at 2×SS3

I haven't scaled the Buu saga in a while, so I may contradict something, but massive gaps ain't my thing. I believe the whole Buu saga remained within the scale of 10×SS3.
I put Super Buu at 3X SSJ3 Goku. It puts him at a comfortable distance away from Goku and allows SSJ1 Gotenks to be SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level of power. Buutenks Is more like Gotenks SSJ3 + Super Buu + Piccolo. Then Buuhan starts as Super Buu+Goten+Trunks+Piccolo+Gohan only to then shoot up when angered. My thoughts at least. Any others are valid
Still sounds reasonable. The scale doesn't tilt away too much. Cause frankly, there are the cases where SS Gotenks is treated as the weakest, yet is comparable to SS3 Goku.

I think that's a bit off.

I even think that the full power of SS3 that Goku never got to use, would place him at 1.5× his normal power.

Vegito being a 10× as a SS matches both Toriyama's vision of Super Saiyan and the possibility of Z SS4 Goku being on par with Super Vegito (if you count SS4 as 10×SS3, which I personally do).
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:08 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Imo a 2× for Super Buu is okay. Gotenks is sometimes overhyped.

For that matter, Buutenks is a 4× and Buuhan around a +5× SS3, with Enraged getting at least twice as strong, if not more times to prove some of an obstacle to Super Vegito. Now, it's up to you whether Vegito is 50× or 10× as a Super Saiyan.

And it isn't rly factual, as shown in Super.

Ultimate Gohan is somewhere around 3×SS3 and SS3 Gotenks at 2×SS3

I haven't scaled the Buu saga in a while, so I may contradict something, but massive gaps ain't my thing. I believe the whole Buu saga remained within the scale of 10×SS3.
I put Super Buu at 3X SSJ3 Goku. It puts him at a comfortable distance away from Goku and allows SSJ1 Gotenks to be SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level of power. Buutenks Is more like Gotenks SSJ3 + Super Buu + Piccolo. Then Buuhan starts as Super Buu+Goten+Trunks+Piccolo+Gohan only to then shoot up when angered. My thoughts at least. Any others are valid
Still sounds reasonable. The scale doesn't tilt away too much. Cause frankly, there are the cases where SS Gotenks is treated as the weakest, yet is comparable to SS3 Goku.

I think that's a bit off.

I even think that the full power of SS3 that Goku never got to use, would place him at 1.5× his normal power.

Vegito being a 10× as a SS matches both Toriyama's vision of Super Saiyan and the possibility of Z SS4 Goku being on par with Super Vegito (if you count SS4 as 10×SS3, which I personally do).
Personally I have Vegito's base at slightly above SSJ3 Goku, which would way make my interpretation for Super Vegito 50XSSJ3 Goku. That's just me though.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by despayeeto593 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:37 am

My power level list for Dragon Ball Z.

Multipliers
Spoiler:
Saiyan Saga
Spoiler:
Namek Saga
Spoiler:
Android Saga
Spoiler:
Buu Saga
Spoiler:
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:41 am

despayeeto593 wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:37 am My power level list for Dragon Ball Z.

Multipliers
Spoiler:
Saiyan Saga
Spoiler:
Namek Saga
Spoiler:
Android Saga
Spoiler:
Buu Saga
Spoiler:
I like these numbers, I don't see anything I don't agree with I think
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:09 am

despayeeto593 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:51 pm How strong do you guys have Super Buu? I'm making my Buu Saga power levels, and I don't know if I should have him and Gotenks at like 2x SSJ3 Goku or at like 8x.
Well, for the mess that Buu saga is, I think pretty much everything can be ok. Just put ssj gotenks (post rosat)>ssj2 Goku then continue from that
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:06 am

despayeeto593 wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:37 am My power level list for Dragon Ball Z.

Multipliers
Spoiler:
Saiyan Saga
Spoiler:
Namek Saga
Spoiler:
Android Saga
Spoiler:
Buu Saga
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about the earthlings being suppressed when being read by the scouters. I think they were intended to be at full power there.

Good levels for the arrival of Vegeta and Nappa. Nitipicking though, I don't think Gohan received a Zenkai after eating a senzu when Goku arrived at the battlefield. He was exhausted but not really near death.

Do you think 2nd form Freeza started at a level below 1M and that his full power would be intended as the one above 1M? Well, I think I disagree.

I'd make CGs Piccolo a little closer to Vegeta and Trunks. His shape after the mini fight against the Cell Juniors being comparable to theirs sells the idea they are overall all on the same level.

Make Goten and Trunks closer to Gohan. Goten had Gohan on the ropes in their sparring session and served as a good training partner for him to prepare for the tournament.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by despayeeto593 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:10 am

Mireya wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:06 am
I'm not sure about the earthlings being suppressed when being read by the scouters. I think they were intended to be at full power there.

Good levels for the arrival of Vegeta and Nappa. Nitipicking though, I don't think Gohan received a Zenkai after eating a senzu when Goku arrived at the battlefield. He was exhausted but not really near death.

Do you think 2nd form Freeza started at a level below 1M and that his full power would be intended as the one above 1M? Well, I think I disagree.

I'd make CGs Piccolo a little closer to Vegeta and Trunks. His shape after the mini fight against the Cell Juniors being comparable to theirs sells the idea they are overall all on the same level.

Make Goten and Trunks closer to Gohan. Goten had Gohan on the ropes in their sparring session and served as a good training partner for him to prepare for the tournament.
I think the earthlings, Tenshinhan specifically, were suppressed when their scouter readings were taken. Given Tenshinhan's performance against weighted Goku in the 23rd Budokai, I feel a 1.33x gap is too much for him and weighted Goku.

I think Gohan did receive a Zenkai there, because his enraged state later on was able to keep up with a fatigued Vegeta, and I really can't see him being in the low 3,000's at that point. A Zenkai would also help explain how Gohan seemingly goes from being weaker than Kuririn to being relative to him.

I often change my power levels around, and I disagree with some things from this list now. I agree with you, Freeza should be over 1,000,000 before his power ups, and I also agree with Piccolo being too weak during the Cell Games. l I'll make an updated list with my new levels including DB and maybe DBS in the future.

I think Gohan was probably suppressing his power during their sparring session, only to then be surprised at how strong Goten's already gotten, at least that's how I always interpreted it, also, Goten's 7 years old at this point, and Gohan likely wouldn't go all out against his 7 year old brother.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:27 am

despayeeto593 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:10 am I think Gohan was probably suppressing his power during their sparring session, only to then be surprised at how strong Goten's already gotten, at least that's how I always interpreted it, also, Goten's 7 years old at this point, and Gohan likely wouldn't go all out against his 7 year old brother.
That makes sense, but Gohan seemed to legitimately be pressured against Goten in the Manga (with sweat drops and all).
There's also the Daizenshuu pretty much stating Gohan = Goten in terms of power.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 pm

I don't suscribe as hard as other people to the idea of Goten and Gohan being equals, I disagree that the only difference between them is Gohan having SS2. I believe Gohan never went all out against his 7-year-old brother, just like Goku used to do before that year in the ROSAT. For example I don't think SS Goten would've fought as well as SS Gohan vs Dabura (experience aside).

Vegeta and Trunks either. While sparring, Trunks could only graze Vegeta who sat him down on the floor with one hit and made him cry too. Trunks also says he has no chance against his father.

However, I do think they are incredibly strong for their age and they aren't far from their elders, I'd say if Gohan and Vegeta are in the 60-70M, Goten and Trunks might be around the 40-45 M
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