Unpopular DB opinions

[MasenkoHA]

Action-comedies are a thing that exist. Being more action oriented doesn’t negate it also being a comedy. Even in its most serious arc the central character is named after male shorts and the attempted big bads are an old geezer and a fat china doll.

Having silly elements to it doesn’t make something a comedy, otherwise Eraserhead would be a comedy. The purpose of something like the Cell arc is not to make people laugh.

Again, it can be both. I don’t know why you think “its doing serious stuff so comedy doesn’t exist” The Artificial Human arc definitely leans much more into the serious than the comedy, I’m not disputing that. But you’re still watching a country bumpkin and his friends fight an old man and an obese clown and also the characters names involve food puns and articles of clothing.

Shoot even when evil bug man tries to take everyone out with him in a murder suicide it’s depicted as him expanding to look comically obese





Pictured above a scene from a super serious series

And the arc doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s part of the same story where a little boy pat people on the crotch to determine their sex, an old martial arts master is a sex offender, elite space mercenaries act like Super Sentai rejects and are named off dairy products, and a pink bubble gum demon named after a Cinderella song turns people into candy.

So even with the Cyborg arc leaning far more into the serious stuff it’s still part of an Action-Comedy where all of the above still happened.

[WittyUsername]

Since we’re talking about Zack Snyder films, if you want to get technical, his movies do tend to be deliberately over the top and outlandish, so in that sense, you could argue they don’t entirely take themselves seriously 100% of the time. Dawn of the Dead is a pretty snarky film, and even BvS has Lex Luthor acting zany throughout virtually the entire story. There’s even a pivotal scene in the movie involving what’s implied to be a jar of urine.

Again, it can be both. I don’t know why you think “its doing serious stuff so comedy doesn’t exist” The Artificial Human arc definitely leans much more into the serious than the comedy, I’m not disputing that. But you’re still watching a country bumpkin and his friends fight an old man and an obese clown and also the characters names involve food puns and articles of clothing.

Shoot even when evil bug man tries to take everyone out with him in a murder suicide it’s depicted as him expanding to look comically obese.

When did I ever suggest that comedy doesn’t exist in Dragon Ball? I certainly never suggested anything resembling that. I’m simply saying that classifying it as a comedy just because it has comedy elements to it doesn’t really work. If you go by that logic, virtually every piece of fiction ever made is a comedy. Lord of the Rings would be a comedy. Breaking Bad would be a comedy. The Goodfellas would be a comedy. No one has ever suggested that Dragon Ball is some super serious and grimdark story, but that doesn’t make it a comedy either.

[MasenkoHA]

If you go by that logic, virtually every piece of fiction ever made is a comedy. Lord of the Rings would be a comedy. Breaking Bad would be a comedy. The Goodfellas would be a comedy. No one has ever suggested that Dragon Ball is some super serious and grimdark story, but that doesn’t make it a comedy either.

Again there’s a difference between some levity in a largely series story and being a comedy. Dragon Ball is largely the latter. I’m not sure why you can’t grasp that it can be a comedy and still have serious elements. Your logic seems to be “its not a comedy all the time therefore its not a comedy” it’s not SOLELY a comedy but comedy is one of its defining genres.


The series where a coffee candy fights a pink demon with a sweet tooth isn’t a comedy I swear.

[ABED]

I'm limiting it to his Superhero films. Dawn of the Dead was his only good film. Not surprising since it was written by James Gunn.

I want dark superheroes because it's something different from the MCU.

Is that the ONLY thing different from the MCU - grimdark? You say you know that this all exists on a continuum yet you insist on bringing up the MCU as if the only way to do anything different from it is joyless grim mopey superheroes.

The only one I see "building strawmen" here is you, by insisting that it's impossible for a superhero film to be dark. Good writers also know that it's entirely possible to take something seriously.

The sheer irony of this entire sentence. I never claimed or implied it's impossible for a superhero film to be dark. Even the Marvel Netflix shows and TDK trilogy had a lot of humor but were definitely on the darker side of the spectrum. And my entire point is that it doesn't have to be dark to be taken serious.

Yes Breaking Bad is funny, but it's not really what you'd call a comedy either,

I didn't say or imply that it was. It has a lot of comedy because otherwise it's oppressively bleak and the emotion they were going for wouldn't be felt.

It's possible for goofy elements to exist along side earnest elements. They accentuate and amplify each other instead of detracting.

[WittyUsername]

If you go by that logic, virtually every piece of fiction ever made is a comedy. Lord of the Rings would be a comedy. Breaking Bad would be a comedy. The Goodfellas would be a comedy. No one has ever suggested that Dragon Ball is some super serious and grimdark story, but that doesn’t make it a comedy either.

Again there’s a difference between some levity in a largely series story and being a comedy. Dragon Ball is largely the latter. I’m not sure why you can’t grasp that it can be a comedy and still have serious elements. Your logic seems to be “its not a comedy all the time therefore its not a comedy” it’s not SOLELY a comedy but comedy is one of its defining genres.


The series where a coffee candy fights a pink demon with a sweet tooth isn’t a comedy I swear.

I’m not sure why you keep putting things in my mouth. No, a thing does not have to be funny 100% of the time in order to be a comedy. Comedies have serious and dramatic moments all the time. However, classifying Dragon Ball as a comedy just seems disingenuous, because despite having plenty of moments of silliness to go around, making people laugh at the silliness is not the core function for the majority of the series. The core appeal of the series is the fighting. The comedy takes a backseat to that for the majority of the manga.

[ABED]

I’m not sure why you keep putting things in my mouth. No, a thing does not have to be funny 100% of the time in order to be a comedy. Comedies have serious and dramatic moments all the time. However, classifying Dragon Ball as a comedy just seems disingenuous, because despite having plenty of moments of silliness to go around, making people laugh at the silliness is not the core function for the majority of the series. The core appeal of the series is the fighting. The comedy takes a backseat to that for the majority of the manga.

That's all arguable. I wouldn't consider it a straight up comedy, but I think it's disingenuous to claim the comedy takes a back seat to the action. It's every present throughout the series.

[WittyUsername]

I’m not sure why you keep putting things in my mouth. No, a thing does not have to be funny 100% of the time in order to be a comedy. Comedies have serious and dramatic moments all the time. However, classifying Dragon Ball as a comedy just seems disingenuous, because despite having plenty of moments of silliness to go around, making people laugh at the silliness is not the core function for the majority of the series. The core appeal of the series is the fighting. The comedy takes a backseat to that for the majority of the manga.

That's all arguable. I wouldn't consider it a straight up comedy, but I think it's disingenuous to claim the comedy takes a back seat to the action. It's every present throughout the series.

It’s present. No one is arguing that. Dragon Ball is definitely not some ultra serious and sad drama. Far from it. However, if one labels it as a full on comedy, then we might as well label pretty much every piece of entertainment as a comedy, or at least the ones that happen to be geared towards kids. At that point, comedy as a genre would lose all meaning.

[MasenkoHA]

I’m not sure why you keep putting things in my mouth. No, a thing does not have to be funny 100% of the time in order to be a comedy. Comedies have serious and dramatic moments all the time. However, classifying Dragon Ball as a comedy just seems disingenuous, because despite having plenty of moments of silliness to go around, making people laugh at the silliness is not the core function for the majority of the series. The core appeal of the series is the fighting. The comedy takes a backseat to that for the majority of the manga.

That's all arguable. I wouldn't consider it a straight up comedy, but I think it's disingenuous to claim the comedy takes a back seat to the action. It's every present throughout the series.

It’s present. No one is arguing that. Dragon Ball is definitely not some ultra serious and sad drama. Far from it. However, if one labels it as a full on comedy, then we might as well label pretty much every piece of entertainment as a comedy, or at least the ones that happen to be geared towards kids. At that point, comedy as a genre would lose all meaning.

Again no one is labeling it as only a comedy. I’ve literally referred to it as an Action-Comedy and comedy being one of its defining genres. Nowhere did I, or anyone else refer to it as solely a comedy.

[WittyUsername]

That's all arguable. I wouldn't consider it a straight up comedy, but I think it's disingenuous to claim the comedy takes a back seat to the action. It's every present throughout the series.

It’s present. No one is arguing that. Dragon Ball is definitely not some ultra serious and sad drama. Far from it. However, if one labels it as a full on comedy, then we might as well label pretty much every piece of entertainment as a comedy, or at least the ones that happen to be geared towards kids. At that point, comedy as a genre would lose all meaning.

Again no one is labeling it as only a comedy. I’ve literally referred to it as an Action-Comedy and comedy being one of its defining genres. Nowhere did I, or anyone else refer to it as solely a comedy.

Your earlier comment was “That’s fine it’s still a comedy series.” That was what I initially responded to. Also, I don’t know if it can really be called an “Action-Comedy” either, but I guess that would be a more appropriate description. Still, if we’re going to call it that, would Star Wars also be considered one?

[Planetnamek]

I'm limiting it to his Superhero films. Dawn of the Dead was his only good film. Not surprising since it was written by James Gunn.

I want dark superheroes because it's something different from the MCU.

Is that the ONLY thing different from the MCU - grimdark? You say you know that this all exists on a continuum yet you insist on bringing up the MCU as if the only way to do anything different from it is joyless grim mopey superheroes.

The only one I see "building strawmen" here is you, by insisting that it's impossible for a superhero film to be dark. Good writers also know that it's entirely possible to take something seriously.

The sheer irony of this entire sentence. I never claimed or implied it's impossible for a superhero film to be dark. Even the Marvel Netflix shows and TDK trilogy had a lot of humor but were definitely on the darker side of the spectrum. And my entire point is that it doesn't have to be dark to be taken serious.

Yes Breaking Bad is funny, but it's not really what you'd call a comedy either,

I didn't say or imply that it was. It has a lot of comedy because otherwise it's oppressively bleak and the emotion they were going for wouldn't be felt.

It's possible for goofy elements to exist along side earnest elements. They accentuate and amplify each other instead of detracting.

Disagree, i'll defend Man of Steel, Justice League and Dawn of Justice all as pretty damn good movies on my deathbed.

All I ever see is people online comparing the DCEU films to the MCU, besides it's not like there's many other studios doing superhero films these days ever since Disney absorbed Fox(with New Mutants being the last gasp of their mutants franchise and Universal showing no interest in doing a solo Hulk movie even though they still own the rights) so who else am i going to compare them to?

I'm well aware it's possible for them to exist alongside darker elements, i'm just saying not every piece of media has to do that. I'm also aware that it does not have to be dark to be taken serious, never said it did.

Not seeing any irony here whatsoever

[MyVisionity]

Again, it can be both. I don’t know why you think “its doing serious stuff so comedy doesn’t exist” The Artificial Human arc definitely leans much more into the serious than the comedy, I’m not disputing that. But you’re still watching a country bumpkin and his friends fight an old man and an obese clown and also the characters names involve food puns and articles of clothing.

Shoot even when evil bug man tries to take everyone out with him in a murder suicide it’s depicted as him expanding to look comically obese





Pictured above a scene from a super serious series

And the arc doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s part of the same story where a little boy pat people on the crotch to determine their sex, an old martial arts master is a sex offender, elite space mercenaries act like Super Sentai rejects and are named off dairy products, and a pink bubble gum demon named after a Cinderella song turns people into candy.

So even with the Cyborg arc leaning far more into the serious stuff it’s still part of an Action-Comedy where all of the above still happened.

Except none of that stuff from the DBZ era is supposed to be comedy. Majin Boo being pink isn't humor, it's just a design choice. Same with Gero and #19. The name puns aren't comedy. Cell expanding to that size isn't comedy.

Those things are silly and weird because Dragon Ball is a silly and weird children's cartoon. That doesn't make it comedy.

Ginyu Force's Super Sentai shtick I'll give you, but it's not enough to call it a comedy series.

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

Again, it can be both. I don’t know why you think “its doing serious stuff so comedy doesn’t exist” The Artificial Human arc definitely leans much more into the serious than the comedy, I’m not disputing that. But you’re still watching a country bumpkin and his friends fight an old man and an obese clown and also the characters names involve food puns and articles of clothing.

Shoot even when evil bug man tries to take everyone out with him in a murder suicide it’s depicted as him expanding to look comically obese



Pictured above a scene from a super serious series

And the arc doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s part of the same story where a little boy pat people on the crotch to determine their sex, an old martial arts master is a sex offender, elite space mercenaries act like Super Sentai rejects and are named off dairy products, and a pink bubble gum demon named after a Cinderella song turns people into candy.

So even with the Cyborg arc leaning far more into the serious stuff it’s still part of an Action-Comedy where all of the above still happened.

Except none of that stuff from the DBZ era is supposed to be comedy. Majin Boo being pink isn't humor, it's just a design choice. Same with Gero and #19. The name puns aren't comedy. Cell expanding to that size isn't comedy.

Those things are silly and weird because Dragon Ball is a silly and weird children's cartoon. That doesn't make it comedy.

Ginyu Force's Super Sentai shtick I'll give you, but it's not enough to call it a comedy series.

To expand upon this, individual things that are silly aren't meant to make something a comedy. There's a difference between being a farce & comedic relief. Dragon Ball initially WAS a series that was meant to be primarily comedic in nature, yes, but around the time of the King Piccolo Saga, it shifted into being more serious. The 3 arcs before Buu are proof enough at how serious Toriyama was taking the material. And, if you look at the Buu Arc, it was a mess in terms of tone because, after Buu himself showed up, there were too many bouts of mood whiplash. A shame too because the arc before that felt pretty renewed for a manga that was over a decade old at that point with Toriyama running out of steam. It's why the newer films do much better at trying to mix the 2 tones of seriousness & comedic & why Super has just about as much mood whiplash as Buu a lot of the time, mainly due to how badly the writers misunderstood Goku's character in most of the non-serious moments.

[ABED]

It’s present. No one is arguing that. Dragon Ball is definitely not some ultra serious and sad drama. Far from it. However, if one labels it as a full on comedy, then we might as well label pretty much every piece of entertainment as a comedy, or at least the ones that happen to be geared towards kids. At that point, comedy as a genre would lose all meaning.

Again no one is labeling it as only a comedy. I’ve literally referred to it as an Action-Comedy and comedy being one of its defining genres. Nowhere did I, or anyone else refer to it as solely a comedy.

Your earlier comment was “That’s fine it’s still a comedy series.” That was what I initially responded to. Also, I don’t know if it can really be called an “Action-Comedy” either, but I guess that would be a more appropriate description. Still, if we’re going to call it that, would Star Wars also be considered one?

No, because although there's humor, it's not one of the elements that defines it like DB.

I'm well aware it's possible for them to exist alongside darker elements, i'm just saying not every piece of media has to do that. I'm also aware that it does not have to be dark to be taken serious, never said it did.

I have never once suggested every piece of media needs to do that, but I do think superhero stories by their nature need to have more than one color. And I haven't seen anything from your posts that suggests you do understand that taking things seriously doesn't preclude even a lot of humor.

I don't think it's goofy at all. Weird and fantastical maybe, but not something that necessarily calls for humor.

It is absolutely goofy when you think about it. It's a bunch of people dressing up in Halloween costumes to fight crime.

Given DB is a world where a fair amount of the characters are named after food, no matter how serious Toriyama made the story, if he didn't have generous amounts of comedy like Kaio-sama, the self seriousness wouldn't work. It would feel incongruous.

[LoganForkHands73]

Reading back through the whole Dragon Ball manga, I sometimes wonder why this comic is taken so unbelievably seriously by some. There is so much dumb shit but I guess it is a great testament to Toriyama's talent that he can take the most ridiculous things and have readers glued to the page, completely po-faced as a geriatric martial artist in an unconvincing wig casually destroys the Moon to depower his pupil who just turned into a giant raging ape. Or a bald monk flashing his friend's boobs to the same geriatric in order to give him a volcanic nosebleed and cover an Invisible Man in blood, thereby making him visible.

Dragon Ball is a very silly-billy series. Yet here we are, on a website that intricately documents the hierarchy of deities and the meaning behind every kanji symbol.

[MasenkoHA]

Except none of that stuff from the DBZ era is supposed to be comedy. Majin Boo being pink isn't humor, it's just a design choice

I like that you zero in on the pink part and not that his gimmick is turning people into candy.

.

Same with Gero and #19.

This is more debatable but I have a hard time buying that the ultimate revenge machines (before they got retconned) being a senior citizen and an overweight china doll wasn’t done tongue in cheek.

The name puns aren't comedy.

They absolutely are.

Cell expanding to that size isn't comedy.

The situation is played dead serious but again of all the ways to show Cell about to self destruct Toriyama’s choice was to make Cell expand like he cleaned out a few too many buffets with that stupid expression on his face

[Planetnamek]

Again no one is labeling it as only a comedy. I’ve literally referred to it as an Action-Comedy and comedy being one of its defining genres. Nowhere did I, or anyone else refer to it as solely a comedy.

Your earlier comment was “That’s fine it’s still a comedy series.” That was what I initially responded to. Also, I don’t know if it can really be called an “Action-Comedy” either, but I guess that would be a more appropriate description. Still, if we’re going to call it that, would Star Wars also be considered one?

No, because although there's humor, it's not one of the elements that defines it like DB.

I'm well aware it's possible for them to exist alongside darker elements, i'm just saying not every piece of media has to do that. I'm also aware that it does not have to be dark to be taken serious, never said it did.

I have never once suggested every piece of media needs to do that, but I do think superhero stories by their nature need to have more than one color. And I haven't seen anything from your posts that suggests you do understand that taking things seriously doesn't preclude even a lot of humor.

I don't think it's goofy at all. Weird and fantastical maybe, but not something that necessarily calls for humor.

It is absolutely goofy when you think about it. It's a bunch of people dressing up in Halloween costumes to fight crime.

Given DB is a world where a fair amount of the characters are named after food, no matter how serious Toriyama made the story, if he didn't have generous amounts of comedy like Kaio-sama, the self seriousness wouldn't work. It would feel incongruous.

Well I do understand it so there, something can be inherently goofy but still taken seriously, nothing wrong with that.

[MyVisionity]

Except none of that stuff from the DBZ era is supposed to be comedy. Majin Boo being pink isn't humor, it's just a design choice

I like that you zero in on the pink part and not that his gimmick is turning people into candy.

.

Same with Gero and #19.

This is more debatable but I have a hard time buying that the ultimate revenge machines (before they got retconned) being a senior citizen and an overweight china doll wasn’t done tongue in cheek.

The name puns aren't comedy.

They absolutely are.

Cell expanding to that size isn't comedy.

The situation is played dead serious but again of all the ways to show Cell about to self destruct Toriyama’s choice was to make Cell expand like he cleaned out a few too many buffets with that stupid expression on his face

It's a children's cartoon, but that doesn't mean it's a comedy. Kids like things like candy and fat guys with stupid expressions.

The name puns are a bit silly, but I doubt that the intent is to make people laugh. It's played straight, like so much else.

[ABED]

Well I do understand it so there, something can be inherently goofy but still taken seriously, nothing wrong with that.

Yes, by acknowledging the inherent absurdity of it. In Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul says "You took my advice about theatricality a tad literally."

The name puns are a bit silly, but I doubt that the intent is to make people laugh. It's played straight, like so much else.

Disagree. They are meant to amuse the reader, but the world is so inherently absurd that a name sounding like food is something no one bats an eye at. Okay, there's the occasional laugh like Goku laughing at how silly Bulma's name is.

[WittyUsername]

There’s an inherent absurdity in pretty much every fictional concept.

Yes, by acknowledging the inherent absurdity of it. In Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul says "You took my advice about theatricality a tad literally."

If you’re going to count that, wouldn’t it only be fair to count the cape exchange in BvS?

[ABED]

There’s an inherent absurdity in pretty much every fictional concept.

Not exactly sure where you're going with this.