Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

[WittyUsername]

The Bardock special is non-canon, but it’s infinitely better than Minus.

Actually didn't Toriyama have Frieza make a remark about Goku resembling Bardock in the manga?

Yes. Bardock appeared in the original manga in a panel that was meant to be a homage to the special, but that special is not canon to the original manga. Minus is. Basically, the character Bardock is canon, but not the special as a whole.

[Kaboom]

"Canon" is almost entirely irrelevant to me, and it doesn't affect my enjoyment or consideration of things whatsoever. Inversely, if I've determined for myself that something is steaming garbage (like Super), then I have no qualms about completely disregarding it, no matter how current it is or how much people may insist on its supposed "canonicity."

[Skar]

I still can prefer non-canon content like the two TV specials over Toriyama's manga versions. To be honest, it might only be a small group of online gatekeeper types that make a big deal about canon since Toei's Broly and SSJ4 are still popular. Not sure if it's the same thing but I prefer to think of them as existing in seperate continuities rather canon vs non-canon.

This topic reminds me of what Toriyama said about RoF:
I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.

I do think fans are willing to accept more from the author. Not necessarily for the reasons of canon but because it's the closest fans can get to the original story's style of writing. I didn't like RoF at all or most of DBS but just trying to look at it from a different perspective .

Yes. Bardock appeared in the original manga in a panel that was meant to be a homage to the special, but that special is not canon to the original manga. Minus is. Basically, the character Bardock is canon, but not the special as a whole.

I like how Bardock in that manga panel still looks like the original and not the headband-less Minus Bardock.

[Matches Malone]

"Canon" doesn't affect my enjoyment or consideration of things whatsoever.

If I've determined for myself that something is steaming garbage (like Super), then I have no qualms about completely disregarding it, no matter how current it is or how much people may insist on its supposed "canonicity."

It shouldn't for you or anyone else, as that's not its purpose. Canon is meant to show what's being taken into account by the current writer, it has nothing to do with what's good or bad, yet some fans use it for such purposes. What's canon today may not be so tomorrow, and vice versa.

I completely agree. If Super were to be left behind by whoever takes over the franchise after Toriyama, watch a lot of its defenders throw it under the bus.

"A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story..."

God forbid someone give a sh*t about what came before.

[Skar]

God forbid someone give a sh*t about what came before.

I liked the Daizenshuu 4 interview where he talks about trying to keep things consistent. There was also this from a V-Jump interview about BoG:

Now then, on a different note, in this movie, a variety of new story elements have been revealed. For example, I believe there’s “Beerus’s Castle” that appears at the beginning, and “the reason why Planet Kaiō is small”; could you tell us about that sort of thing?

The design for Beerus’s castle was fun to come up with. When I’m thinking up a story, somehow, I want to make things consistent. No matter if he’s a God of Destruction, it would be bad if he just showed up for no reason and went on a rampage, wouldn’t it? Even I myself think that feels wrong.…. So, even if it’s not expressed within the work, I always work to come up with a convincing background story within myself.


I think Toriyama cares about maintaining consistency when he can so I'm not sure what was going on with RoF. I just thought it was relevant to this topic since Toriyama is flat-out saying only the original author could mess with what's been established which is true if we consider how non-Toriyama stories are criticized sometimes.

[Matches Malone]

I think Toriyama cares about maintaining consistency when he can so I'm not sure what was going on with RoF.

RF and everything after it. BOG was such a great movie that Toriyama tried as hard as he could to not only fit it within the manga, but to also live up to it. After that though, he seemed to have lost his passion again, which I guess isn't surprising considering he only intended BOG being a one time project, and not what it actually turned out to be.

[Goten_jr]

I personally don't enjoy Super as much. I enjoy the development of the DB Universe, but I don't understand the timeline. Is it pre or post GT? Has Vegeta skipped not only Super Saiyan 3 but perhaps Super Saiyan 4? Has that not happened yet, or is it just not acknowledged? A parallel universe? The Broly movie left me a little salty because of that.

I believe Super operates under the assumption that only the manga covering Dragon Ball and Z has happened. It takes place in between the Buu Arc and the time skip at the end of Dragon Ball Z, so well before GT. But it does not hold itself to needing GT to happen in its future—it already contradicts GT by de aging pilaf and de fusing kibito Kai. Super Saiyan 4 “hasn’t happened yet”, but I think because of GTs “non canon” status, it either won’t happen “canonically” at all or will happen differently.

It’s needlessly confusing, but DB->Z->Super is it’s own timeline, and it’s assumed the old movies and GT never happened/will happen. It also is the “canon” timeline because it is the most Toriyama led.

That said, on the topic of the topic question, I very much enjoy “non canon” content. I enjoy GT, the Z movies, and SDBH plenty. Don’t let something being not “canon” detract from your enjoyment of it! I kinda wish that modern DB had been constructed in a way that it still fit with GT in the timeline/picture. But alas.

Aren’t there Even some contradictions between the The EOZ and Super?

[Matches Malone]

I believe Super operates under the assumption that only the manga covering Dragon Ball and Z has happened. It takes place in between the Buu Arc and the time skip at the end of Dragon Ball Z, so well before GT. But it does not hold itself to needing GT to happen in its future—it already contradicts GT by de aging pilaf and de fusing kibito Kai. Super Saiyan 4 “hasn’t happened yet”, but I think because of GTs “non canon” status, it either won’t happen “canonically” at all or will happen differently.

As of now, GT isn't canon, as there are simply too many things in Super that contradict it. With that said though, it's entirely possible that Super will end with everything being reset to how it was before they met Beerus, or that GT could be introduced as an alternate timeline, etc. There's also the possibility that Super as a whole could be ignored like how GT currently is once Toriyama steps down.

Actually didn't Toriyama have Frieza make a remark about Goku resembling Bardock in the manga?

The Bardock special is in the same position that GT is, both were "canon" for the longest time, but that changed once modern DB began.

[Grimlock]

I believe Super operates under the assumption that only the manga covering Dragon Ball and Z has happened.

You mean the Dragon Ball Super manga "operates under that assumption"? Because its anime follows the anime continuity, as we see Gregory, Trunks' first transformation and other things.

Aren’t there Even some contradictions between the The EOZ and Super?

Only one so far, and it can easily be solved (but not for long if they keep cramming stories in this period of time). Bulma says her and her family haven't seen Goku for five years. That establishes they shouldn't have been seeing each other since Future Trunks saga, as is the last saga of AGE 779. But considering we're just one year ahead of that, we can assume Bulma rounded it up, and they actually haven't seen each other for about four years and X months.

We can't afford to have more timeskips now, otherwise we'll jump to AGE 781 and that solution will no longer be possible.

[ABED]

There's caring about what came before and then there's being anal retentive about consistency to the point of it interfering with the story even though plot holes generally don't matter to audiences.

[SSJGAffleck]

I mean a lot of the movies are still really fun and I watch movie 12 and the 10th anniversary movie at least 5 times each year. I love GT and think it's way better than Super with the exception of BOG(Movie) and Broly. The first TV special is still perfect in my eyes and Minus does not even compare.
But there really isn't a canon, and everything can be seen as just as valid as another if you look at it in terms of alternate timelines.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm not. The last non-canon Dragon Ball content I followed was Super Dragon Ball Heroes, but I dropped it a few months ago. I really have a hard time following what's happening in all of these non-canon stories, most of the events seem random and disconnected from each others. At this point I'm waiting for a new Super movie/Anime Moro arc.

[Matches Malone]

There really isn't a canon, and everything can be seen as just as valid as another if you look at it in terms of alternate timelines.

The "canon" is what's being taken into account by the head writer (Toriyama), which is the stories he himself wrote only. That doesn't make everything else less valid, or mean that things can't change once someone else takes over in the future. GT for example is clearly not being taken into account by Toriyama, but once he's done, the new writer could easily connect both it and Super together, making GT "canon" again.

[SSJGAffleck]

There really isn't a canon, and everything can be seen as just as valid as another if you look at it in terms of alternate timelines.

The "canon" is what's being taken into account by the head writer (Toriyama), which is the stories he himself wrote only. That doesn't make everything else less valid, or mean that things can't change once someone else takes over in the future. GT for example is clearly not being taken into account by Toriyama, but once he's done, the new writer could easily connect both it and Super together, making GT "canon" again.

True. I should have said that the way I look at the canon not the way it is. That’s my bad

[JulieYBM]

'Canon' is the dumbest shit word on the planet and if I could turn it into a Dragon Ball enemy and then write for it to be brutally defeated by Son Gokuu and Videl while babysitting the kids and discussing the merits of gas versus charcoal I would.

[Matches Malone]

'Canon' is the dumbest shit word on the planet.

If you're talking about how fans use it, then I agree, but the concept itself (what an author takes into account while writing) is needed for a franchise as big as DB.

[ABED]

One of the main issues with Canon is people want the concept to be this rigid concept and like a puzzle where all the pieces fit together.

[DBPirate]

I don't think that whether or not something's canon determines its value (see: the Star Wars EU), but I'm not the biggest fan of content that doesn't have a certain degree of involvement from a series' original creator. Something like Heroes just comes across as someone playing with DB action figures rather than a legitimate story. That doesn't mean there can't be anything non-canon I don't like though.

I prefer to use the term continuity. I like the DB-Z-Super continuity better than the DB-Z-GT continuity, but there are things from non-canon material like the movies that I like.

[Goten_jr]

There really isn't a canon, and everything can be seen as just as valid as another if you look at it in terms of alternate timelines.

The "canon" is what's being taken into account by the head writer (Toriyama), which is the stories he himself wrote only. That doesn't make everything else less valid, or mean that things can't change once someone else takes over in the future. GT for example is clearly not being taken into account by Toriyama, but once he's done, the new writer could easily connect both it and Super together, making GT "canon" again.

I mean Toriyama declared GT as Side Story of it’s own Work so He kinda took it into his account

[Skar]

Only one so far, and it can easily be solved (but not for long if they keep cramming stories in this period of time). Bulma says her and her family haven't seen Goku for five years. That establishes they shouldn't have been seeing each other since Future Trunks saga, as is the last saga of AGE 779. But considering we're just one year ahead of that, we can assume Bulma rounded it up, and they actually haven't seen each other for about four years and X months.

Wouldn't it be about 3.5 years by now?

May of Age 779: Pan is born and Freeza is resurrected sometime after this. We'll keep it at this month since it's not clear.
September of 779: Freeza trains for four months and returns to Earth.
After September of 779: Champa and Goku Black were also said to take place in 779.
After September of 780: Super Dragonballs need a year to recharge so the earliest the ToP could take place is exactly one year after the Champa arc.
Also after September of 780: DBS: Broly and Moro arc up until he finds the Earth.
November-December of 780: Moro gives the Z fighters two months to prepare for his return.

Was there anything I missed? I know it's not too important but just something I was curious about.