Just something I happened to notice

[Big Momma]

First off, does everyone remember back in the day, when Dragon Ball Z ruled Toonami and was hailed by CN as "The greatest Action Cartoon Ever"?

Well, I was able to sit down and watch Naruto last Saturday(Unfortunately, it was fillers) and when the commercial break came, guess what Toonami called Naruto. The greatest Action Cartoon Ever! I for one could not believe it, I felt, in a way, betrayed!

Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy Naruto(except filler) it is a very good series to me and it has a solid storyline. However, it definitely isn't even CLOSE to being the best action cartoon ever. DBZ action was REAL action. The kind where you just pound each other with attacks until someone dies/gives up/etc. Naruto action was more strategic, and not as "heart pounding".

Anyway, I'm not really mad at all, this was just something I wanted to point out.

[Chuquita]

*Sips from her empty soda can* Well "back in the day" both CN and Viz boasted about Dragon Ball's sheer awesomeness.

Anyone remember how Viz was all "hardcore" using curse words and having Vegeta call people "bastards" in the translation of the manga so they'd seem cool compared to Funi's Season 3 butchery? I mean they even stuck those "not for children under 13" stickers on the graphic novels for a time!

And Toonami; ah the combination of TOM and Peter Cullen on the commercials they used to advertise the show still give me chills whenever I decide to breeze through YouTube and watch a few.

Peter Cullen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8hV3bE ... re=related
Season 3 Commercial - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5efgOgxlc
Final Season Commercial - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LSUEB6vJw&NR=1 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OEit4pY ... re=related
Critics Agree - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ig5TNPiUl4&NR=1

Damn I miss that period of my life.
You know, aside from the high school part. >_> I mean, high school was ok but its got nothing on college. :3


But to stay on-topic; yes, DBZ's method of hardcore martial artists who know what they're doing kicking each other's ass is WAY different from Naruto's "Let's explain every single move as its taking place" method of battle. Which is one of the reasons I failed to get into Naruto twice. I don't want every little thing explained to me. A nit-picker I am not. If something seems out of place or forgotten I won't throw a fit on it; its most likely I won't remember those tiny facts myself.


I mean I can't hate on Naruto, afterall a few of my friends left dbz completely for that show and they're really nice people. Of course we barely have anything to really talk about anymore, but we're still friends.


So yeah, I totally understand the jilted feeling. There are things and a few characters I enjoy on Naruto (I like Kakashi, Rock Lee, and Shippuuden's version of Sakura) and it can be funny, but the action compounded by all the repeated flashbacks to everyone's terrible childhood just slows it down to the point where I can't watch anymore. I mean, how hard is it for viewers to remember these characters' backgrounds where they have to remind you almost every week about them? I understand padding the script for TV, but....I don't know, it just doesn't seem to fly with me.


Is it too much to ask just to watch a couple characters slug it out without having to forcibly slow down their fight to give me the play-by-play?!


I mean, watch Dead Zone for example and tell me that Goku fighting to take down Garlic Jr's minions didn't look like how real action is supposed to look!

[Super Sonic]

Also, CN isn't even advertising Toonami now, including Naruto. They're just screwing the whole block over in favor of other shows.

[Jerseymilk]

That's because despite what many anime fans want to believe, the anime trend is declining in popularity. Anime distributing companies currently are having a very hard time financially, though that's also largely due in part to the overabundance of series via YouTube and such. Shows like Family Guy are what's in now.

As to the original topic, I think it's silly to be bothered by CN suddenly giving a title that they gave DBZ over to Naruto. They're a business, a network trying to get ratings and make money. They'll do whatever they think they have to. They don't have any sentimental ties to these shows.

[NeptuneKai]

It depends on what is selling best. As much as I hate Naruto with a passion it sells like hotcakes and they need their ratings so it's the best action cartoon of all time NOW. It was the same case with DBZ back in the day I would think.

[Vekurotto]

Is DBZ even "The Greatest Action Show in the History of Time and Space" like Funi says though? I mean half the time they stare at each other and have long drawn out fights . But seriously it's just a selling point and Naruto's popular and on air and DB stuff isn't anymore.

[Rocketman]

Is DBZ even "The Greatest Action Show in the History of Time and Space" like Funi says though? I mean half the time they stare at each other and have long drawn out fights . But seriously it's just a selling point and Naruto's popular and on air and DB stuff isn't anymore.

It's like an earthquake. For the vast majority of the time, the plates are moving at an inch a year, but every now and then, they slip and move suddenly.

[Kid Trunks]

I felt, in a way, betrayed!

I thought you were going to say you felt betrayed because Toonami said DBZ was the "Greatest Action Cartoon Ever!", and now they're saying it about Naruto. Toonami probably said that b.s about every show they had.

[Kaboom]

Is DBZ even "The Greatest Action Show in the History of Time and Space" like Funi says though? I mean half the time they stare at each other and have long drawn out fights . But seriously it's just a selling point and Naruto's popular and on air and DB stuff isn't anymore.

Naruto's not without it's flaws, either. You do realize how insanely many flashbacks this show has, right? I've seen them have 10-minute long, in-episode flashbacks of things that happened two episodes ago.

Given the choice, I'll take DBZ's staring sessions, which their frequency or severity really are pretty exaggerated when people talk about them.

[NeptuneKai]

Is DBZ even "The Greatest Action Show in the History of Time and Space" like Funi says though? I mean half the time they stare at each other and have long drawn out fights . But seriously it's just a selling point and Naruto's popular and on air and DB stuff isn't anymore.

Naruto's not without it's flaws, either. You do realize how insanely many flashbacks this show has, right? I've seen them have 10-minute long, in-episode flashbacks of things that happened two episodes ago.

Given the choice, I'll take DBZ's staring sessions, which their frequency or severity really are pretty exaggerated when people talk about them.

Well people remember the Frieza saga (as in around the time Frieza actually starts fighting.) Let me say that I can NOT watch those episodes because of the incredible amount of filler in there. The battles drag on, the starring matches drag on, and the reaction shots drag on. So when people bring up filler they probably remember the height of DBZ’s popularity which was the Frieza saga and base their opinions on that. Filler has never been that bad after or before the Frieza fights though.

[Kaboom]

Well people remember the Freeza saga (as in around the time Freeza actually starts fighting.) Let me say that I can NOT watch those episodes because of the incredible amount of filler in there. The battles drag on, the starring matches drag on, and the reaction shots drag on. So when people bring up filler they probably remember the height of DBZ’s popularity which was the Freeza saga and base their opinions on that. Filler has never been that bad after or before the Freeza fights though.

You're right. As far as I can remember, that's the only area of the series where it got to that level.

[Kunzait_83]

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[NeptuneKai]

Well people remember the Freeza saga (as in around the time Freeza actually starts fighting.) Let me say that I can NOT watch those episodes because of the incredible amount of filler in there. The battles drag on, the starring matches drag on, and the reaction shots drag on. So when people bring up filler they probably remember the height of DBZ’s popularity which was the Freeza saga and base their opinions on that. Filler has never been that bad after or before the Freeza fights though.

You're right. As far as I can remember, that's the only area of the series where it got to that level.

And not even so much when Freeza starts to fight so much as when Goku starts to fight Freeza. The part of the Freeza fight involving Piccolo, Gohan, Kuririn, and Vegeta up against his first three forms wasn't all that bad in this area. Really the pacing doesn't start to get draggy until Goku walks into the picture IMO.

See I disagree; the Dragonball anime has this habit of dragging on battles, this is known by all. However I find the Frieza battles to be even more dragged out then those anywhere else in the anime. One would have to look at Piccolo VS. 2nd form and 3rd form Freeza. I always found those battles to have very long starring matches and reaction shots just to drag them out a little longer. Especially the Freeza transformations, those always took a very long time which was just very unnecessary seeing as how quick they happened in the manga. The anime gets a little better when the whole Vegeta VS. 4th form Frieza battle starts but then falls back into tedium when Goku enters the scene.

[Vegeta Jr]

You're right. As far as I can remember, that's the only area of the series where it got to that level.

And not even so much when Freeza starts to fight so much as when Goku starts to fight Freeza. The part of the Freeza fight involving Piccolo, Gohan, Kuririn, and Vegeta up against his first three forms wasn't all that bad in this area. Really the pacing doesn't start to get draggy until Goku walks into the picture IMO.

See I disagree; the Dragonball anime has this habit of dragging on battles, this is known by all. However I find the Freeza battles to be even more dragged out then those anywhere else in the anime. One would have to look at Piccolo VS. 2nd form and 3rd form Freeza. I always found those battles to have very long starring matches and reaction shots just to drag them out a little longer. Especially the Freeza transformations, those always took a very long time which was just very unnecessary seeing as how quick they happened in the manga. The anime gets a little better when the whole Vegeta VS. 4th form Freeza battle starts but then falls back into tedium when Goku enters the scene.

That's what you get when you have to make a 20 minute episode from the manga.

[Kaboom]

But in terms of episodes per fight, Kunzait's right. I was just going through my Season 3 the other day to get those screencaps for Daemon, and I was truly surprised to see just how relatively quickly the first "half" of the fight with Freeza goes by. Freeza shows up and starts fighting Vegeta in episode 77, I believe, then his fights with him, Gohan, and Piccolo end when Goku shows up in episode 85. Goku stars fighting in 86, and his entire battle, Spirit Bomb, Super Saiyan and all, lasts until episode 105. That's pretty freaking long, over twice as much.

Added content can sometimes be nice; there's a few skirmishes within their fight that weren't in the manga, and are truly very cool. But without all the dragons, and cutaways to people and places we don't care about (another offender), and couple flashbacks and even a dream sequence with naked Vegeta (WTF was up with that, anyway? Way to give the fangirls ammo, Toei), it probably wouldn't have lasted half that long.

[Rocketman]

Well people remember the Freeza saga (as in around the time Freeza actually starts fighting.)

I don't think it's just that. It's also that during the Goku vs Freeza fight is where it gets so bad that even the anime fanatics have to agree it's shit.

I mean, even in the Raditz fight:

Manga: Raditz is breaking Goku's ribs. His scouter beeps, Gohan bursts out of the space pod.

Anime: Raditz is breaking Goku's ribs. Shot of woodland animals. Cut to ChiChi for a bit (lol, irony, cuz her family's getting killed and she doesn't know hurf durf). Raditz's scouter beeps. He looks up. He looks this way. He looks that way. More woodland animals. He looks this way. He looks that way. He looks this way. He looks that way. Gohan bursts from the space pod.

[saiyanprincess]

Well to be honest ever since Cartoon Network ditched Dragonball Z, yeah they have bought in Naruto; but their ratings have shot right down.

I suppose they did go through each saga (and repeated them), and then they put on dragonball GT but they hardly showed dragonball!

I might be wrong, but if they were to bring back DB, DBZ and GT then perhaps they can bring back some of their long time viewers... And even make some new ones! - if they havn't all purchased the DVD's by now!

[Jerseymilk]

Cut to ChiChi for a bit (lol, irony, cuz her family's getting killed and she doesn't know hurf durf).

One would think you'd be pleased to have extra ChiChi screen time.

[Anonymous Friend]

I can watch through the Goku/Freeza fight and only slightly get bothered by the Bulma interuptions, Ginyu Force on Kai's planet, and the little bits of Krillin, Piccolo, and Gohan. Since I got the Season set I've watched that part of it three times and am about to do it again with the Japanese audio and subtitles.

when was the last time you guys watched these through? Was it on Toonami with their Monday through Friday airing? Do you own it on video and watched it from there?

I notice that a lot of the gripes I once had were totally removed (Well, except for most of the Garlic Jr arc) once I could watch the series at my own pace and when I wanted to watch it without commercial interuptions.

[Vegeta Jr]

I can watch through the Goku/Freeza fight and only slightly get bothered by the Bulma interuptions, Ginyu Force on Kai's planet, and the little bits of Krillin, Piccolo, and Gohan. Since I got the Season set I've watched that p[art of it three times and am about to do it again with the Japanese audio and subtitles.

when was the last time you guys watched these through? Was it on Toonami with their Monday through Friday airing? Do you own it on video and watched it from there?

I notice that a lot of the gripes I once had were totally removed (Well, except for most of the Garlic Jr arc) once I could watch the series at my own pace and when I wanted to watch it without commercial interuptions.

Haven't watched the anime for a long time, although from time to time i watch a few episodes on Youtube. At the moment though, i'm saving up to get the Dragonball Z Season boxsets.