"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[UpFromTheSkies]

Except keeping Beerus out made no sense since it's literally Beerus' job to handled mortals like Moro and his failure in the past to do so got his universe nearly erased just an arc ago.

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

What makes you think its Beerus job to destroy mortals like Moro? His job is to keep balance in the universe by destroying planets, not to baby sit mortals.

[HeroR]

Lol no. That Genkidama was stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku.

I find it weird that people still say this.

Considering how everyone on the team is on Goku and Vegeta's level now, including Krillin who held off an attack from Blue Goku, I guess the attack would be stronger than the one that killed Buu. How anyone can call that good writing is another story, which is why we have a topic in the general section questioning people's standards.

Oh for god sakes, why do people keep saying this? The sub said several times that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was utterly overkill and Krillin stood no chance at winning no matter how sneaky he was. But all anyone can think of how Krillin briefly holding back the Kamehameha. At this point, this is boarding on being dishonest.

That and it's called quality of the ki, not the amount. 17, 18, Frieza, Gohan, and even Piccolo have more power than everyone on Earth and Namek put together even with Buu Saga level Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo's, Goten, and Trunks.

[HeroR]

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

What makes you think its Beerus job to destroy mortals like Moro? His job is to keep balance in the universe by destroying planets, not to baby sit mortals.

It is literally said in the Future Trunks Saga that part of the job of being a God of Destruction is to kill mortals who abused the knowledge of the gods. This was explained by Gowasu to Zamasu. The universes with the best mortal rating have the gods who personally destroy evil and/or low level planets. Even in the Super manga, Kibito outright said that Beerus should have been the one to kill Buu, but he was asleep.

So yes. It's literally his job to 'baby' mortals.

[Kagari]

17 trained for 13 some years.

Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains.

It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

What training ? watching over an island ? that's in no way shape or form like training with an angle, or training for 7 years in the afterlife.

His training was basically what he did back in the Saiyan arc when he was a child, but now it's somehow the equivalent of an angle's training...makes sense.

Both are just as bad, especially Goku's. Vegeta got a new form because he wanted one while Goku got a power that rivals the angles through getting hit by an attack that was weaker than what killed Kid Buu.

It's vague offscreen training for 17, no different than Goku's three years before the 23rd World Tournament or the three years before the androids. Or... any of Vegeta's transformations, lol. I don't really mind it if it means these characters can be relevant after Super painted itself into a corner. Same with Gohan, he trained for a year post RoF mostly off-screen. The same kid who ran laps around his dad in Super Saiyan/2 after less than a year of mostly off-screen training.

Angel training isn't the be all, end all. Freeza, Hit, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo and others are all on those levels without angel training. Could it be done better? Sure, but it isn't and again, if this is how they're gonna involve more than just two characters then so be it.

[HeroR]

17 trained for 13 some years.

Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains.

It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

What training ? watching over an island ? that's in no way shape or form like training with an angle, or training for 7 years in the afterlife.

His training was basically what he did back in the Saiyan arc when he was a child, but now it's somehow the equivalent of an angle's training...makes sense.

Both are just as bad, especially Goku's. Vegeta got a new form because he wanted one while Goku got a power that rivals the angles through getting hit by an attack that was weaker than what killed Kid Buu.

It's vague offscreen training for 17, no different than Goku's three years before the 23rd World Tournament or the three years before the androids. Or... any of Vegeta's transformations, lol. I don't really mind it if it means these characters can be relevant after Super painted itself into a corner. Same with Gohan, he trained for a year post RoF mostly off-screen. The same kid who ran laps around his dad in Super Saiyan/2 after less than a year of mostly off-screen training.

Angel training isn't the be all, end all. Freeza, Hit, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo and others are all on those levels without angel training. Could it be done better? Sure, but it isn't and again, if this is how they're gonna involve more than just two characters then so be it.

Actually Toppo did have angel training since he's training to be a God of Destruction. We don't know how strong he was before he took the offer. Hit is also 1000 years old, so he got that strong over a very long period of time. We don't know what Jiren did, but the anime at least hinted he didn't have just normal training going by what the gods said in Episode 100. We also don't know a thing about Dypso and what training he did or didn't have.

Freeze is true, but he's also a hybrid mutant who was born the strongest being in his universe.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

What makes you think its Beerus job to destroy mortals like Moro? His job is to keep balance in the universe by destroying planets, not to baby sit mortals.

Why do you think Universe 7 has such a low mortal rating? Because Beerus is too fucking lazy to do his job and kill people like Moro, Frieza, Buu, who were pretty much running the galaxy. His job is to fucking kill these people so that his universe can develop, which can't happen when planet wreckers end up massecering populations.

He doesn't have to baby-sit mortals, if Beerus did the bare minimum, his universe would at least be semi decent and not a completely hell-hole that it likely is after Moro's rampage. Beerus also destroys planets for petty reasons like bad food most of the time, so he's not helping by destroying planets for small reasons. Beerus's negligence has claimed the lives of countless people, Merus now added to list of people fucked over by his refusal to engage.

[Matches Malone]

It's vague offscreen training for 17, no different than Goku's three years before the 23rd World Tournament or the three years before the androids.

Or... any of Vegeta's transformations, lol.

I don't really mind it if it means these characters can be relevant after Super painted itself into a corner.

Gohan ran laps around his dad in Super Saiyan/2 after less than a year of mostly off-screen training.

It's very different, as Goku didn't go from a 0 to a 10000000 during those 2 instances of training.

Also different, as Vegeta spent years of intense training and got multiple Zenkai Boosts before he was able to unlock Ssj1. He took an additional 7 years to reach 2, and even then he needed a boost from Babidi to reach Goku's level. If watching over an island is all it takes to get 100× stronger than that, then farmer with a shotgun is probably on Whis' level now.

I mind, because it shows the writers don't care enough to justify their gains. If the writers don't care, why should the viewer ? The reason people cared about characters powering up before was because they took the time to justify it.

A year of training in the most intense training place introduced in the series up to that point, with his father who was a Ssj martial arts master. That's very different from what a park ranger does. There's also the fact that Gohan's powers were being built up for years by the time he fought Cell. What build up was there to 17 ? Zero.

Oh for god sakes, why do people keep saying this?

That and it's called quality of the ki, not the amount. 17, 18, Frieza, Gohan, and even Piccolo have more power than everyone on Earth and Namek put together even with Buu Saga level Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo's, Goten, and Trunks.

Because he did, he was able to hold off Goku's Kamehameha, something he souldn't able to do with Base Goku much less Blue.

That's not how giving Ki works, otherwise Goku's spirit bomb that killed Buu would've only needed Gohan's Ki to get the job done, as he was far stronger than Buu.

[HeroR]

It's vague offscreen training for 17, no different than Goku's three years before the 23rd World Tournament or the three years before the androids.

Or... any of Vegeta's transformations, lol.

I don't really mind it if it means these characters can be relevant after Super painted itself into a corner.

Gohan ran laps around his dad in Super Saiyan/2 after less than a year of mostly off-screen training.

It's very different, as Goku didn't go from a 0 to a 10000000 during those 2 instances of training.

Also different, as Vegeta spent years of intense training and got multiple Zenkai Boosts before he was able to unlock Ssj1. He took an additional 7 years to reach 2, and even then he needed a boost from Babidi to reach Goku's level. If watching over an island is all it takes to get 100× stronger than that, then farmer with a shotgun is probably on Whis' level now.

I mind, because it shows the writers don't care enough to justify their gains. If the writers don't care, why should the viewer ? The reason people cared about characters powering up before was because they took the time to justify it.

A year of training in the most intense training place introduced in the series up to that point, with his father who was a Ssj martial arts master. That's very different from what a park ranger does. There's also the fact that Gohan's powers were being built up for years by the time he fought Cell. What build up was there to 17 ? Zero.

Oh for god sakes, why do people keep saying this?

That and it's called quality of the ki, not the amount. 17, 18, Frieza, Gohan, and even Piccolo have more power than everyone on Earth and Namek put together even with Buu Saga level Ultimate Gohan, Piccolo's, Goten, and Trunks.

Because he did, he was able to hold off Goku's Kamehameha, something he souldn't able to do with Base Goku much less Blue.

That's not how giving Ki works, otherwise Goku's spirit bomb that killed Buu would've only needed Gohan's Ki to get the job done, as he was far stronger than Buu.

The show said several times that Krillin stood no chance no matter what he did and Krillin holding back a Kamehameha for a few seconds doesn't changed that. Especially when Goku wasn't trying to kill Krillin, but scare him shitless.

It kinda is, especially when Goku wasn't trying to kill Jiren unlike Buu who he needed to destroy atom by atom. And even if we said it didn't, those characters are still way stronger than anything in the Buu Saga.

[DiscountDabi]

That's not how giving Ki works, otherwise Goku's spirit bomb that killed Buu would've only needed Gohan's Ki to get the job done, as he was far stronger than Buu.

Thats not how Genki works, but normal ki absolutely works that way. Like Goku giving Frieza a bit of energy on Namek. Goku didn’t give him a lot, as he could easily over power the blast that Frieza shot at him. But I’m pretty sure Vegeta is stronger than everyone on earth combined with the exception of Goku using Kaioken. If it was just Ki it wouldn’t have done anything.

[ZombieVito]

When copying another person's abilities there is a time limit, but Moro took back the powers he stored in 73 and there's no limit on them because they're originally his.

I'm obviously talking about the abilities that aren't his like Piccolo's. He said he doesn't have any time limit on all of them but never explains why.

[Xeogran]

I don't disagree, as we've always known Goku would master it, but why so soon ? Why not let Omen get its time to shine and save MUI for another arc ?

Well Omen is too weak against Moro, so unless he gave the form to Gogeta, there's no way the form could be showcased in a good light now.

And if he were to make Moro just Omen level, then he would feel underwhelming after Jiren and Broly.

[Matches Malone]

Well Omen is too weak against Moro, so unless he gave the form to Gogeta, there's no way the form could be showcased in a good light now.

And if he were to make Moro just Omen level, then he would feel underwhelming after Jiren and Broly.

Goku can use Omen with backup from Vegeta, which I think will happen anyway, at least towards the end. I think Goku will weaken him enough for Vegeta to separate them.

[DevilKing99]

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

Agreed, I mean the Gods are untouchable so what's even the point of focusing upon them? They don't even let the Villains fight them in heroes, and so it's to notice they simply don't want the Zeno and the rest of the gods looking weak so it's a waste of time to focus on them.

And Christ is the Z fighters gotta have to get the gods to solve all of there problems?

Beerus said something I 100% agreed with, stop relying on the gods to fix all of there problems.

Shanks and Dragon over in One Piece don't even be jumping in to solve all of Luffy's problems from him.

[UpFromTheSkies]

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

What makes you think its Beerus job to destroy mortals like Moro? His job is to keep balance in the universe by destroying planets, not to baby sit mortals.

It is literally said in the Future Trunks Saga that part of the job of being a God of Destruction is to kill mortals who abused the knowledge of the gods. This was explained by Gowasu to Zamasu. The universes with the best mortal rating have the gods who personally destroy evil and/or low level planets. Even in the Super manga, Kibito outright said that Beerus should have been the one to kill Buu, but he was asleep.

So yes. It's literally his job to 'baby' mortals.

What knowledge of the gods is Moro abusing? It's been a long time since I've watched Super and I don't remember Gowasu and Zamasu talking about abusing knowledge of the gods, do you remember the episode?

[UpFromTheSkies]

When copying another person's abilities there is a time limit, but Moro took back the powers he stored in 73 and there's no limit on them because they're originally his.

I'm obviously talking about the abilities that aren't his like Piccolo's. He said he doesn't have any time limit on all of them but never explains why.

He said the power that was returned to him has no limit, which is the back up of his powers he put in 73, not Piccolo and Vegeta's abilities. 73 could only use Moro's powers for so long, but since they are originally Moro's, he doesn't have that limit.

[GodVegetto91]

Is anyone else as hyped about next month’s manga chapter as I am?

I am, and we're in luck, it's releasing 4 days earlier on the 18th, which means leaks should be out on the 15th.

Great news to hear!!! Thanks. That’s even better.

[Lord Beerus]

Chapter 63 has been released.

[Anomandaris]

I must be in the minority but i LOVE this arc - have really enjoyed it and excited to see how it ends - Can't wait for September

Really liked the art of the fight between Moro and Merus - interested to see what the other Z Fighters do while Goku goes nuts - he clearly won't beat Moro on his own

The only way I see Gohan & Piccolo getting more relevance is splitting them up from Goku & Vegeta - I'd love to see them handle a situation without Vegeta and Goku (maybe they go to Universe 6 for some offshoot storyline) - I think it can happen or at least give them new abilities, etc

Pumped for the next chapter

[batistabus]

Really enjoyed this chapter. I've liked Merus from the beginning, so I'm glad he got such a nice sendoff. He didn't come to kill Moro, he came to make up for his "failure" as a master and finish Goku's training. He went out with a smile. Very heartwarming. The flashback conversation in the RoSaT was nice Goku analysis, and the "That's much more exciting, I guess?" ties in nicely with "This universe, full of excitement."

Enjoyable choreography, especially with the staffs. Using the angel staff as a sniper rifle was a fun detail.

Has Goku ever referred to Dende as Kami-sama before?

If Goku can maintain composure in the face of Merus' sacrifice, he'll achieve MnG. Even so, it's more than likely that things will not go as planned...

What's going on in Whis' head? Is allowing Merus to be erased, knowing Beerus is going to be held responsible by the Great Priest, part of Beerus' training? Is Whis trying to get him to take more responsibility, or is he really so nonchalant about things? He seemed to not care much that his brother was erased...is that just an angel's perspective? Does he not think Merus' erasure is permanent? I wonder if this arc will "end" but immediately lead into something else...

Dende healing Vegeta 3rd gives some time for him to be out of the picture. We still have Kuririn arriving with Senzu, and the Galactic Patrol stated they will return to the scene. I don't think this arc will end as soon as some might expect...

[Xeogran]

Why do I feel like Whis wants to overthrow the Grand Priest..
Something is fishy here. Whis doesn't seem to care about anything.