"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DestructoDisc]

Do you think it's possible for Moro to steal Krillin's senzu beans and heal himself with them in the next chapter?

[DiscountDabi]

But without Merus finishing his Angel Training it's possible our heroes are introduced to a new universe to protect until a new replacement angel is found ()

This sounds like such a good arc. Grand Priest rolls up and tells Goku and Vegeta that Merus was training to be the angel for universe 13, a brand new universe in the making. And until he gets a replacement Angel and G.O.D, Goku and Vegeta are gonna be honorary God and Angel.

What an interesting concept would be is Goku being put in the possition of angel and told that if he uses his full power he’ll disappear like Merus did sounds like a complex place to take Goku’s character.

[Matches Malone]

This chapter basically is :Beerus sucks at his job, reason 657.

Beerus must've submitted a really good resume to keep his job after all he's done (or what little I should say) so far.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 63:

- Some decent panelling and fight choreography between and Moro and Merus. It's been quite a while since I've seen someone fight with a staff and it was nice to see that kind of stuff again.

- I don't know why Gohan telling Dende to heal Piccolo made me laugh. Like... Gohan... you are so much stronger than Piccolo. And even if Piccolo they can just use the Namekian Dragon Balls to bring him back life like they've done before.

- Every time Goku powers up in Ultra Instinct like it's a Super Saiyan transformation, I get sad.

- Some really good characterisation with Merus. Accompanied by some great flashbacks which work well in expanding the dynamic between Goku and Meerus. On top of all this there integrated quite smartly in terms of panelling. Great work. Toyotaro. However...

- ...Goku's characterisation leaves a lot to be desired, at least through the flashbacks. Goku statements regarding how he handles threats slip into "waku waku shi masu" mode. And that's a shame. Because I really feel this was a golden opportunity to add more nuance and depth to Goku's inherit desire for competition and battle. Instead Goku just comes across as so... generic.

- Merus kind of feels like a foil to Zamasu in a way. They're both deities given a specific role in the universe -- which is to basically watch from the outside -- and while Zamasu sense of "justice" was basically to develop an insanely black and white view of the universe and eventually became a full blown misanthrope, Merus' sense of "justice" was to protect all life in the galaxy and be more of a positive influence by spreading as much peace as possible by helping the Galactic Patrol. Nice narrative parallel.

- You can really tell Toyotaro LOVES the Cell arc with how many story beats are being regurgitated. How Merus bows out of the arc feel like a retread of the death #16. Hell, now that I think about it, Merus basically feels like #16 but fleshed out better and his physical confrontation with the main villain had a greater impact on the narrative.

- I really like Merus in the end as a character and his dynamic with Goku was alright, but Toyotaro is very obviously trying to over-emphasize just how much of a relationship Merus had with Goku. I understand Toyotaro desperately needed a reason for Goku to attain Complete/Master Ultra Instinct without it feeling cheap, but he spent too much time trying to add human elements to Merus' character that he completely forgot to add more characterisation to Goku to make it seem like him seeing Merus as just a sparring partner. The personal attachment just isn't there for me to believe that Goku would get this emotional over Merus' vanishing. I feel as though a chapter solely dedicated to Goku and Merus training could have done wonders to develop their relationship. As it stands, while the dynamic between Goku and Merus is acceptable, it's also severely lacking any emotional depth which it makes Goku's anger and sadness feel forced and contrived.

Overall thoughts... with brilliant character writing (for the most part), fantastic art, excellent panelling and a gripping cliffhanger, Toyotaro has pulled a golden rabbit out of his hat. This is the second best chapter of the entire arc.

[HeroR]

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

Agreed, I mean the Gods are untouchable so what's even the point of focusing upon them? They don't even let the Villains fight them in heroes, and so it's to notice they simply don't want the Zeno and the rest of the gods looking weak so it's a waste of time to focus on them.

And Christ is the Z fighters gotta have to get the gods to solve all of there problems?

Beerus said something I 100% agreed with, stop relying on the gods to fix all of there problems.

Shanks and Dragon over in One Piece don't even be jumping in to solve all of Luffy's problems from him.

Beerus is a hypocrite. When he said that, the entire situation was quite literally the god's fault. Zamasu was a god choosing to become the new Supreme Kai despite having several mental issues and went off the deep end and killed his own master. He then stole the body of a mortal, killed him and his entire family, and then jumped timelines to kill a future version of his master and recruit himself. They then used the Super Dragon Balls again (which are the god's Dragon Balls that mortals can't even used since they can't speak the language of the gods) to make Zamasu immortal and then destroy those Dragon Balls so no one can used it against them. They then took the Supreme Kais flatfooted and murdered them, which killed the Gods of Destruction and deactivated the angels, which allowed Zamasu to do literally anything he wants. So the mortals in the future timeline are made to suffer and die because the gods screw up and the head god Zeno knew nothing of this until it was too late and he had to destroy the timeline. So how is this an example of the mortals depending on the gods?

Furthermore, the entire TOP happened because the gods did such a poor job managing their universe and the mortals had to bail their asses out by fighting out universes to the death.

The only example of the gods interfering is with Freeza. So, it's weird that people keep saying 'Beerus was right' while ignoring the context in which he made such a statement.

[SupremeKai25]

Sometimes I wonder if Zamasu had the right idea about replacing all the Kais, GoDs, and angels with only one supreme god. Many of these gods are incompetent and often do not comunicate with each others, so a more centralized and tighter authority would most likely be more efficient in protecting the multiverse. Plus the life link between the Kais and GoDs is actually very fragile and can easily be exploited by enemies (as Zamasu proved).

[Matches Malone]

I don't know why Gohan telling Dende to heal Piccolo made me laugh. Like... Gohan... you are so much stronger than Piccolo.

The personal attachment just isn't there for me to believe that Goku would get this emotional over Merus' vanishing.

Stronger, yes, more useful ? no.

The sad thing is, he'd probably be less emotional if it was Gohan who died, which is understandable of course.

[Grand Marshal 1]

But without Merus finishing his Angel Training it's possible our heroes are introduced to a new universe to protect until a new replacement angel is found ()

This sounds like such a good arc. Grand Priest rolls up and tells Goku and Vegeta that Merus was training to be the angel for universe 13, a brand new universe in the making. And until he gets a replacement Angel and G.O.D, Goku and Vegeta are gonna be honorary God and Angel.

What an interesting concept would be is Goku being put in the possition of angel and told that if he uses his full power he’ll disappear like Merus did sounds like a complex place to take Goku’s character.

If not replacements to the actual positions, Goku with MUI most def has the angel-like feel to him and Vegeta is a standing candidate GoD. The rest of the gang could even go as far as entering the fray too. Gohan and Piccolo have worked with the Supreme Kais is the past.

I don't expect it to go like this, but for them to be a team protecting the universe while it's on its final stages before being reformed (since 17's wish in the ToP).

I imagine them fending off villains from other universes that want to take advantage of the situation etc. Perhaps some kind of Hearts-type of character could work this time.

[DevilKing99]

Nobody cares about Merus. This saga is... ugh.

Speak for yourself.
I grew to like him.

I don't care. What did he do? What makes you care about him?

The only thing I dislike about Merus is that people think this is going to change anything sustainably.

Vegeta and Goku got almost everybody killed on Earth during ROF by not taking Freeza seriously and none of the Z fighters cared or said anything about it, why do people it would be different when it comes to gods like Beerus and Whis?

I remember when people thought Goku Black was Goten look at what that lead to. Or Grand Priest being evil or there being some type of stupid rebellion against Zeno, how you going to rebel against a dude who can erase a timeline with ease?

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 63-

Merus died as he should, now hopefully they don't bring him back.

Sometimes I wonder if there isn't anyone working officially of this franchise that thinks Beerus/Whis talking about food is an overused character interaction. Boring as always!

Fantastic cliffhanger, now if i like where this is going is another thing. I don't really want Goku to get the win.

[Matches Malone]

I don't really want Goku to get the win.

We'll get one of two endings, both of which I'll be fine with:

1- Goku obliterates Moro with MUI.

2- Vegeta separates him and 7-3 after Goku's done wiping the floor with him, followed by Vegeta killing Moro and goku killing 7-3.

Regardless of what we get, this was a great arc, and one that takes the franchise in the right direction.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Sometimes I wonder if Zamasu had the right idea about replacing all the Kais, GoDs, and angels with only one supreme god. Many of these gods are incompetent and often do not comunicate with each others, so a more centralized and tighter authority would most likely be more efficient in protecting the multiverse. Plus the life link between the Kais and GoDs is actually very fragile and can easily be exploited by enemies (as Zamasu proved).

Moral of the story: The Dragon Ball universe is forced to bend over backwards to the childish lunatic god and his obedient slaves/babysitters have to keep an eye over him to make sure he doesn't delete everything out of boredom. Gods of the lower tier universes either are incompetent or lazy, resulting in people like Moro existing. Everyone is likely unhappy under this system, but nobody can say anything cause Zeno will erase them for complaining and their universes.

[batistabus]

I don't know why Gohan telling Dende to heal Piccolo made me laugh. Like... Gohan... you are so much stronger than Piccolo.

Piccolo has a hole in his chest. Gohan with a rage boost couldn't even make Moro flinch, so they're both useless as fighters.

[Matches Malone]

Piccolo has a hole in his chest. Gohan with a rage boost couldn't even make Moro flinch, so they're both useless as fighters.

At least Piccolo has a clothes beam, which is more than I can say for Gohan.

[ZombieVito]

He said the power that was returned to him has no limit, which is the back up of his powers he put in 73, not Piccolo and Vegeta's abilities. 73 could only use Moro's powers for so long, but since they are originally Moro's, he doesn't have that limit.

No, he said all the copied abilities had no time limit, which is BS without an explanation.

[SupremeKai25]

Speak for yourself.
I grew to like him.

I don't care. What did he do? What makes you care about him?

The only thing I dislike about Merus is that people think this is going to change anything sustainably.

Vegeta and Goku got almost everybody killed on Earth during ROF by not taking Freeza seriously and none of the Z fighters cared or said anything about it, why do people it would be different when it comes to gods like Beerus and Whis?

I remember when people thought Goku Black was Goten look at what that lead to. Or Grand Priest being evil or there being some type of stupid rebellion against Zeno, how you going to rebel against a dude who can erase a timeline with ease?

Which is actually the main storyline of the Universal Conflict arc from Super Dragon Ball Heroes, so if a videogame can make it work I'm sure Toyotaro and his friends can figure out a way to write it.

[Kinokima]

I think we all predicted what would happen to Merus. Although I did originally think he would be the one to beat Moro so my prediction didn’t entirely come true.

I just wonder if it would have been better if we knew Angels can’t interfere but didn’t know why. I think it would of had more emotional impact. Also if we saw Goku and Merus bonding more

I am also not 100% convinced Merus won’t be brought back as a mortal but time will tell


It looks like Goku will be taping into Mastered UI but I do hope Vegeta still has a part to play. He was built up just as much as Goku ( in some ways more) so it would be disappointing if he gets to do nothing more. And his ability is still a direct counter to Moro. For me at least a Goku & Vegeta team up in the end would be a more satisfying conclusion.




As for Gohan asking for the others to be healed I would just say it’s simply because Gohan puts others before himself

[DevilKing99]

I don't really want Goku to get the win.

We'll get one of two endings, both of which I'll be fine with:

1- Goku obliterates Moro with MUI.

2- Vegeta separates him and 7-3 after Goku's done wiping the floor with him, followed by Vegeta killing Moro and goku killing 7-3.

Regardless of what we get, this was a great arc, and one that takes the franchise in the right direction.

It's not over yet and this arc isn't going to change anything about the status quo at all

[batistabus]

I forgot to say...Whis whisked everyone away without Jaco seeing it. There has finally been a limit placed on Jaco's eyesight!!

[DevilKing99]

I don't care. What did he do? What makes you care about him?

The only thing I dislike about Merus is that people think this is going to change anything sustainably.

Vegeta and Goku got almost everybody killed on Earth during ROF by not taking Freeza seriously and none of the Z fighters cared or said anything about it, why do people it would be different when it comes to gods like Beerus and Whis?

I remember when people thought Goku Black was Goten look at what that lead to. Or Grand Priest being evil or there being some type of stupid rebellion against Zeno, how you going to rebel against a dude who can erase a timeline with ease?

Which is actually the main storyline of the Universal Conflict arc from Super Dragon Ball Heroes, so if a videogame can make it work I'm sure Toyotaro and his friends can figure out a way to write it.

How do we defeat a dude who erase a timeline/multiverse with ease?

Comics reboot for a reason when a character like that appears, that's no higher you can go than that.