"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

You guys remember those times ages ago? You know, when people thought Moro was going to be an extraordinary villian with a good personality? You remember those times? Cause I do.

I was curious about him at first, but honestly Moro has the personality of a piece of bread. Hell, his minions had more personality than he did.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

You guys remember those times ages ago? You know, when people thought Moro was going to be an extraordinary villian with a good personality? You remember those times? Cause I do.

I was curious about him at first, but honestly Moro has the personality of a piece of bread. Hell, his minions had more personality than he did.

The writing in this arc was decent at the beginning, but then....eeeeeehhhhhhh.....Honestly I think what ruined it for me was Moro getting these stupid power ups and convenient powers out of nowhere just to justify him once again fucking the hero's over. Its getting annoying.

[HeroR]

Even if he masters MUI, this can't be the last arc right? Moro is such a trash, forgettable villain that I really hope he's not the "final boss" of Super.

We don't know. Jiren was worse and TOP was the last anime arc.

He really wasn't. Jiren was dry, but he wasn't a walking Dragon Ball villain checklist with new power as the plot demands.

Even if he masters MUI, this can't be the last arc right? Moro is such a trash, forgettable villain that I really hope he's not the "final boss" of Super.

We don't know. Jiren was worse and that was the last anime arc.

Jiren at least tied into the whole "Power of friendship" stuff, because he's the exact opposite of Goku. Moro is lame, he has no depth, nothing.

Jiren is really just Goku without Dragon Balls to fixed the tragedies that happened to him. He's also what Goku dreamed of being, an all powerful being who surpassed the gods by himself with only his hard work.

[HeroR]

You guys remember those times ages ago? You know, when people thought Moro was going to be an extraordinary villian with a good personality? You remember those times? Cause I do.

I was curious about him at first, but honestly Moro has the personality of a piece of bread. Hell, his minions had more personality than he did.

Who made this?

[emperior]

Before it turns out he actually did, if this ever is true, I would like to take the chance to say that I fully believe that Toriyama was quite involved with this chapter.

That’s because he was the one who wrote that Merus is an Angel, so it’s possible he also wrote all of his story as his involvement must have been more than just “yeah let’s make Merus an Angel”

Specifically, I believe Toriyama wrote that Ultra Instinct is achieved the opposite of Super Saiyan and that Merus was going to go against Angel laws to bring out the mastered UI out of Goku.

I also bet Toriyama corrected some of the art here, but maybe Toyotaro just go so good that his art has gotten closer and closer to Toriyama’s. He really drew some great Goku art this time around!

And the dialogue! The flashback dialogue was so well done that I bet that either Toriyama wrote it back when he wrote Merus’ backstory and future, or that he at least intervened in that part.
Props to Toyotaro if that was all from him, though, because he perfectly nailed down Goku this time around.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I already see plenty of people saying that his new ability was useless and he did nothing this arc.

Whoever says this don't know what they're talking about. Even if Vegeta's role is over (which I doubt), he was still the only one able to not only fight Moro, but defeat him as well (before he absorbed 7-3). He was also the only one capable of freeing all of Moro's stolen energy and bringing back some of the Namakians he killed. Vegeta's role here is without a doubt the biggest he's ever gotten, and that's not counting what he may still get in the next 2-3 chapters.

This is the same thing that happened to Gohan in the Boo saga and I don't see anyone saying that his role was fantastic in that arc. A lot of build up that leads to nothing. The only difference is that Vegeta may or may not have a role in Moro's defeat with the Spirit Fission, but what happened to Vegeta in chapter 61 was no different than what has already been done several times in the series

He said the power that was returned to him has no limit, which is the back up of his powers he put in 73, not Piccolo and Vegeta's abilities. 73 could only use Moro's powers for so long, but since they are originally Moro's, he doesn't have that limit.

No, he said all the copied abilities had no time limit, which is BS without an explanation.

No, Moro says that only the abilities previously copied by Seventhree have no time limit, which does not include the abilities he copied after merging with him

[batistabus]

Before it turns out he actually did, if this ever is true, I would like to take the chance to say that I fully believe that Toriyama was quite involved with this chapter.

Props to Toyotaro if that was all from him, though, because he perfectly nailed down Goku this time around.

I don't see anything here that strikes me as direct intervention from Toriyama. I could be wrong. I really miss the Toriyama correction bonus pages, and I especially miss the Tori/Toyo interviews! I figure Toriyama is just doing less correcting these days, but another interview wouldn't hurt...

He said the power that was returned to him has no limit, which is the back up of his powers he put in 73, not Piccolo and Vegeta's abilities. 73 could only use Moro's powers for so long, but since they are originally Moro's, he doesn't have that limit.

No, he said all the copied abilities had no time limit, which is BS without an explanation.

Moro absorbed Seven-three's powers as is. It's magic eating-based energy absorption, so why nitpick it like it's hard science? I wonder if he'll retain the non-Moro-absorbed abilities moving forward. At the very least, Moro has retained his own power.

I think people should prepare themselves now for if/when Vegeta fissures Moro and Seven-three. I fully expect Moro will keep his power, as he stated "it has returned home". It'll be a similar logic to when Zamasu and Black each transformed back into Merged Zamasu despite defusing.

[ZombieVito]

No, Moro says that only the abilities previously copied by Seventhree have no time limit, which does not include the abilities he copied after merging with him

That still doesn't explain why those don't have a time limit...

[Matches Malone]

This is the same thing that happened to Gohan in the Boo saga and I don't see anyone saying that his role was fantastic in that arc. A lot of build up that leads to nothing. The only difference is that Vegeta may or may not have a role in Moro's defeat with the Spirit Fission, but what happened to Vegeta in chapter 61 was no different than what has already been done several times in the series

I think Gohan's role in the Buu arc is very underrated. He may not have gotten the kill, but that doesn't change anything about what he did get, just as Vegeta not (possibly) getting the kill shouldn't change anything about what he got.

[Magnificent Ponta]

No, Moro says that only the abilities previously copied by Seventhree have no time limit, which does not include the abilities he copied after merging with him

That still doesn't explain why those don't have a time limit...

I don't think we'll be getting an explicit explanation of this - I'll agree with you that it wasn't really a necessary detail; Moro would've just been as threatening with a time limit on copied powers as without.

Since we're left to infer, I think it's that since OG73-I is permanently bonded to and integrated with Moro, so is everything about him, including his power, his copy ability, and the abilities he has copied and still has, up to the point he got eaten.

[DiscountDabi]

I think the arc could have been better if we had more time with the Galactic Patrol. You could still have Goku training with Merus. But instead of Vegeta going to Yardrat he could stay with the Galactic Patrol and train two members. And Vegeta takes on the mentor role and trains two Galactic Patrol members and gaining a bond with them.

I think thats the biggest fault of this arc. Its the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Arc, but we spend so little time focusing on them. Its basically just turned into the Moro Arc.

[Kinokima]

I think the arc could have been better if we had more time with the Galactic Patrol. You could still have Goku training with Merus. But instead of Vegeta going to Yardrat he could stay with the Galactic Patrol and train two members. And Vegeta takes on the mentor role and trains two Galactic Patrol members and gaining a bond with them.

I think thats the biggest fault of this arc. Its the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Arc, but we spend so little time focusing on them. Its basically just turned into the Moro Arc.

Vegeta training on Yadrat was one of my favorite parts of this arc so I wouldn’t want to give that up

But I do wish more of Goku and Merus was shown. Actually I wish more of Vegeta training on Yadrat was shown to for that matter


That is something if this ever became a TV arc the anime could expand on . That would be good “filler” to me

[Magnificent Ponta]

I think thats the biggest fault of this arc. Its the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Arc, but we spend so little time focusing on them. Its basically just turned into the Moro Arc.

I don't think that's really true.

It's the 'Galactic Patrol Prisoner' arc. Given the fact that Moro is himself a Galactic Patrol prisoner, the fact that he kills Cranberry to get a whole wish where he frees all the other prisoners of the Galactic Patrol, all the complaining from various readers about how much time was spent on the Saganbo Bandit Brigade, the fact that the Macareni Siblings (repeat Galactic Patrol Prisoners) draw the action to Earth specifically, and we spent almost a whole issue on seeing them get captured by the Galactic Patrol - and focusing on it being the 'Galactic Patrol Prisoner' arc, there's the facts that the whole arc is touched off by the Galactic Patrol coming to Earth to seize Buu, the presence of, and plot facilitation by, various Galactic Patrol members throughout (which Goku and Vegeta themselves are, for the duration of the arc, lest we forget) - it's clear that the Galactic Patrol and their prisoners are front and centre the whole time.

Would it really have been that beneficial to the plot to spend time on a couple of particular Galactic Patrol scrubs for Vegeta to form an unlikely bond with as well?

[LoganForkHands73]

Honestly, immediate first reactions, I quite liked this chapter. The fight choreography was much more interesting than usual, lots of dynamic attacks and angles with Merus's bo. Of course, everything involving Merus's sacrifice was well-handled, but I do wish we saw more of him before this. However, while I liked his character, I wish we spent more time with him for this death to have a greater impact.

I concur with what someone else said about Beerus's characterisation becoming increasingly intolerable. Every arc seems to be intent on undermining him in new, embarrassing ways but this just might take the cake. It's hard to remember a time when Beerus's whole motivation was to find a worthy opponent to sate his thirst for battle. Now he has a beyond-god level enemy right there who can do just that and he either still can't be bothered, or is a genuine coward. Whis has completely surpassed him in relevance and Beerus himself is little more than a purse puppy that just gets brought along. I don't mind the idea that he's in fact not morally inscrutable and kind of a screw-up next to other Hakaishin, but the subtle wisdom and depth to his character in his debut movie is but a distant memory now.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Honestly, immediate first reactions, I quite liked this chapter. The fight choreography was much more interesting than usual, lots of dynamic attacks and angles with Merus's bo. Of course, everything involving Merus's sacrifice was well-handled, but I do wish we saw more of him before this. However, while I liked his character, I wish we spent more time with him for this death to have a greater impact.

I concur with what someone else said about Beerus's characterisation becoming increasingly intolerable. Every arc seems to be intent on undermining him in new, embarrassing ways but this just might take the cake. It's hard to remember a time when Beerus's whole motivation was to find a worthy opponent to sate his thirst for battle. Now he has a beyond-god level enemy right there who can do just that and he either still can't be bothered, or is a genuine coward. Whis has completely surpassed him in relevance and Beerus himself is little more than a purse puppy that just gets brought along. I don't mind the idea that he's in fact not morally inscrutable and kind of a screw-up next to other Hakaishin, but the subtle wisdom and depth to his character in his debut movie is but a distant memory now.

See for all the inconsistencies that exist, I'm pretty sure the only thing Toyo doesn't want to touch upon is the Oracle Fish's prediction of Goku and Vegeta becoming Beerus' rivals.

Which is utter bs. Goku and Vegeta always grow. Beerus remaining this inconsistent isn't the answer. I prefer the anime's route in which we can realize where Beerus caps.

But leaving everything vague for him is not good writing for me. Granted not a writer myself and my comment is insignificant, but from God Goku is BoG up until now, everyone has been stronger, yet Beerus doesn't find anyone as impressive as the 'legendary warrior' he fought in the beginning of the series.

And that raises question marks.

[DiscountDabi]

I think thats the biggest fault of this arc. Its the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Arc, but we spend so little time focusing on them. Its basically just turned into the Moro Arc.

I don't think that's really true.

It's the 'Galactic Patrol Prisoner' arc. Given the fact that Moro is himself a Galactic Patrol prisoner, the fact that he kills Cranberry to get a whole wish where he frees all the other prisoners of the Galactic Patrol, all the complaining from various readers about how much time was spent on the Saganbo Bandit Brigade, the fact that the Macareni Siblings (repeat Galactic Patrol Prisoners) draw the action to Earth specifically, and we spent almost a whole issue on seeing them get captured by the Galactic Patrol - and focusing on it being the 'Galactic Patrol Prisoner' arc, there's the facts that the whole arc is touched off by the Galactic Patrol coming to Earth to seize Buu, the presence of, and plot facilitation by, various Galactic Patrol members throughout (which Goku and Vegeta themselves are, for the duration of the arc, lest we forget) - it's clear that the Galactic Patrol and their prisoners are front and centre the whole time.

Would it really have been that beneficial to the plot to spend time on a couple of particular Galactic Patrol scrubs for Vegeta to form an unlikely bond with as well?

Yes we spend time with the prisoners a bunch, but it would have been more beneficial to get a better look at the Galactic Patrol as a whole so that Merus’s Speech at the end of this chapter has a bit more weight behind it. For the most part the only genuine Galactic Patrol Members we are fully aquatinted to are Merus and Jaco. And with Merus the Fanbase see’s him as an Angel First and a Galactic Patrolman Second. And like you said it was good for the first part and a little towards the middle with them going to earth.

But even then the focus was either on Merus as shown in the first half, or the Z fighters as shown with their set up on earth. There was a pannel in this recent chapter mentioning that they will come to earth and help once they drop off the prisoners. So maybe there is more yet to come. I just think that as a whole this arc would have been far more interesting if we had a bit more focus on the Galactic Patrol than just making it all about Moro.

[Gt91]

I liked the Merus part. He sent Moro in the air like a ball xD.
Merus is giving a great message as well: "if you have the power to do something good, it's your responsability to do it". Angel or not.
Beerus is lazy as always. I think this will be a problem, and soon or later he'll be replaced.
Whis is too much neutral. I mean, in the previous chapters he took care of merus and now he leave him behind? I don't know, something is not right for me. Maybe there's more behind this choice. Maybe Merus is not dead for real (he created this situation to help Goku achiving MUI)... i don't know.We'll see.
For the final, i think we'll have 2 more chapters.
Moro doesn't need a second chance. He's just evil and need to be destroyed, once for all.

[Miracles]

Merus sense of justice overcame his neutrality while working with the Galactic Patrol. Goku's dealings with his enemies even contributed to that.

However this chapter just reinforced what the story already stated/shown. Whis doesn't react unless Beerus tells him too. Since BoG Beerus is only aided the earth for his selfish purposes [food/prophecy battle with Goku].

[LoganForkHands73]

Honestly, immediate first reactions, I quite liked this chapter. The fight choreography was much more interesting than usual, lots of dynamic attacks and angles with Merus's bo. Of course, everything involving Merus's sacrifice was well-handled, but I do wish we saw more of him before this. However, while I liked his character, I wish we spent more time with him for this death to have a greater impact.

I concur with what someone else said about Beerus's characterisation becoming increasingly intolerable. Every arc seems to be intent on undermining him in new, embarrassing ways but this just might take the cake. It's hard to remember a time when Beerus's whole motivation was to find a worthy opponent to sate his thirst for battle. Now he has a beyond-god level enemy right there who can do just that and he either still can't be bothered, or is a genuine coward. Whis has completely surpassed him in relevance and Beerus himself is little more than a purse puppy that just gets brought along. I don't mind the idea that he's in fact not morally inscrutable and kind of a screw-up next to other Hakaishin, but the subtle wisdom and depth to his character in his debut movie is but a distant memory now.

See for all the inconsistencies that exist, I'm pretty sure the only thing Toyo doesn't want to touch upon is the Oracle Fish's prediction of Goku and Vegeta becoming Beerus' rivals.

Which is utter bs. Goku and Vegeta always grow. Beerus remaining this inconsistent isn't the answer. I prefer the anime's route in which we can realize where Beerus caps.

But leaving everything vague for him is not good writing for me. Granted not a writer myself and my comment is insignificant, but from God Goku is BoG up until now, everyone has been stronger, yet Beerus doesn't find anyone as impressive as the 'legendary warrior' he fought in the beginning of the series.

And that raises question marks.

Yeah, it's a stinky contrivance. I can usually buy anything involving characters from other universes, timelines, etc. since they're all supposed to be out of his jurisdiction, plus he's only met most of them in tournaments he can't himself compete in. Even with the Future Trunks arc, I could initially buy him bowing out after dealing with the threat of Present Zamasu in his own timeline, but it got spotty after the severity of Black/Zamasu's plans started to pose such a dire threat to the gods (plus Shin and Gowasu having no quibbles with travelling to the future timeline undermining the original excuse somewhat).

However, with Freeza, Broly, Moro, it's definitely tenuous for him to not be at least interested in these new potential rivals, prophecy or not. Resurrection F started the trend of weak excuses for him to not getting involved and tellingly the next movie gave an even lamer reason - my guess is that his continued appearances in the movies is purely to provide a sense of continuity for casual fans, but it's a confusing detriment in the long run.

Hopefully at some point Beerus will get his act together and at least bully Freeza and Broly into coming to his planet as a further two training partners.

[Alruneia]

Beerus is lazy as always. I think this will be a problem, and soon or later he'll be replaced.
Whis is too much neutral. I mean, in the previous chapters he took care of merus and now he leave him behind? I don't know, something is not right for me.

This is a sentiment I see a lot of people share, and I'm inclined to agree, though I get why it's there. Whis is almost neutral to a fault in this chapter, but his indifference, to the point of heartlessness, shows what angels are "supposed to be like", and it creates a contrast with Merus' feelings. This further helps to show that Merus has grown partial and is breaking angel law, and helps to explain why he gets the Back to the Future fadeout treatment. It does also give Beerus and Whis some characterisation that people might not be very happy with, though.
Also, if there's ever going to be an arc where Goku and the team fight against the system (the god hierarchy and such), Beerus' and especially Whis' statements in this chapter are going to be considered part of the setup for that arc. That's a big "if" for now, of course.

For the final, i think we'll have 2 more chapters.

I don't think it's going to be that quick, but it's not far off, either. Next month's chapter will begin UI Goku vs Moro, which is going to be either the last or second last phase of the fight, depending on Vegeta's (hypothetical) role and on how specific you want to be on splitting things up. My estimate is 3 or 4 (or like 3.5) more chapters.