"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kinokima]

Even though I've been cheering for Geets to get the W, with the build up MUI Goku just got, Merus even said Goku would stomp anybody, I'm not so sure I want a shared victor. Nor I think it would be good either.

If Goku masters UI, he should fuck Moro up. If not, then what was Merus going on about then? could he be so wrong even after learning where Moro caps at?
If he doesn't master UI, then fuck it, what the hell was all that about?

The only way I see Vegeta needing to intervene is if Moro gets another pass from Toyo and asspulls some other thing. Or if UI runs out, but we've already seen that to favour teamwork in the ToP, it would be boring to keep the same template, and the point of this whole Merus thing was for Goku to reach that level and get the win once and for all. Plus, this arc has been dragged long enough to still not be witnessing the final fight.

But it would mean Goku’s training meant something but Vegeta’s did not. That’s why I feel it would be extremely disappointing if only Goku’s training means something in the end.

Also Vegeta didn’t just get a power up but a move that literally counters Moro and in fact can take apart 7:3 from Moro. It just seems strange to have him have that ability of separating two characters and not have him use it

If Goku and Vegeta team up it would mean nothing is wasted in the arc

And I think Moro disappearing and saying to Goku your power still won’t be enough wouldn’t have the same ring to it. I do think UI will be enough just with a little assistance.

Vegeta did achieve something, he restored the namekians (redeeming himself) and all the energy Moro had stolen was returned back to their rightful owners. Right now he can't touch Moro, he should be just as out of his league as in every other arc where he was left out of the final fight.

I agree that it would be lackluster if that was all he accomplished (althought not small fries at all), but I feel one of them has to get the axe in order to keep the narrative fresh.
We already got the ToP to see them teaming up after the divine trump card failed, against Broly too. And UI has just been built up to a point where Goku should have no match according to Merus' last breath. He trained Goku and defeated Moro, so I must take his statement to heart. Also, it would be OOC for Goku to let Vegeta aid him after mastering UI and seeing his friend fade away.

I'll say this, though, we have yet to see Vegeta separate a fusion. But unless Merus was full of shit, there would be no need for that if Goku masters UI. And I would hope UI doesn't run out, because the simpsons already did that , and it's time for this arc to end.

Goku and Vegeta have teamed up a lot but either it didn’t make a difference, was against a minor villain or they had to rely on fusion

Having them each achieve something different that is needed to take down the main villain together feels very fresh to me, especially since this arc was focused on BOTH of them taking different paths.

Also you are assuming that UI Goku needs to lose and the fight needs to start all over again for Vegeta to join the fight

Anyways Merus was wrong about Goku & Moro before so I wouldn’t 100% take his word that they ONLY need UI to beat Moro.

And while yes I acknowledge Dragonball isn’t immune to building someone up and “giving them the axe” as you say I would be disappointed if that was the case here

Another thing is both Goku and Vegeta have been fighting Moro and continuously failing. Goku gets this final chance so why not Vegeta? The entire arc has pretty much been about both of them.

[ssj3kakarot]

Even though I've been cheering for Geets to get the W, with the build up MUI Goku just got, Merus even said Goku would stomp anybody, I'm not so sure I want a shared victor. Nor I think it would be good either.

If Goku masters UI, he should fuck Moro up. If not, then what was Merus going on about then? could he be so wrong even after learning where Moro caps at?
If he doesn't master UI, then fuck it, what the hell was all that about?

The only way I see Vegeta needing to intervene is if Moro gets another pass from Toyo and asspulls some other thing. Or if UI runs out, but we've already seen that to favour teamwork in the ToP, it would be boring to keep the same template, and the point of this whole Merus thing was for Goku to reach that level and get the win once and for all. Plus, this arc has been dragged long enough to still not be witnessing the final fight.

Agree. If MUI shows up, Goku should go ape shit on Moro, otherwise, Merus death was for nothing. I do however want Vegeta to be relavent, which i think is only possible if MUI loses stamina ( even though I hate that over used crutch). As long as MUI thrashes Moro, but Vegeta comes in to "tag" in, I think i'd be ok. But MUI should equal death. Goku should be pissed and go buck wild on this whole operation.

[theherodjl]

Well, that was a disappointing chapter. Merus decided that he's a hero of justice and would rather needlessly sacrifice himself so that a group of mortals could defeat a bad guy that Beerus could've destroyed had he just been bribed with some tasty cuisine. Lame.
I will admit, I was expecting that Merus would interfere to a degree in which his existential status would be called into question and that his fate would be decided at a later time. However, I didn't realize that Toyotaro would just go all out and have Merus sprint towards his fate without any hesitation, as though there was simply no other way that the story could unfold. I was hoping for more here but I guess that even Toyotaro is getting so tired of this arc that Merus was written to forego any prudence, all so that Goku & Vegeta can just defeat Moro already.

[The Bastard.]

Why people keep repeating the false statement that Goku surpassed Gods of Destruction and complaining that Beerus does nothing?

The universe is in the state it is because Beerus is incompetent, in another multiverse he died because he couldn't be bothered to deal with Buu and the Kai got killed, here they almost got fucked many times, he will not change, he's a cat, he will keep doing what he wants to do even if he gets scolded by it.

My cat drinks water from the bathroom, he has a perfectly good water recipient Full of fresh water, I complain Everytime I see he doing it, he still does, because he's a fucking cat.

Also, Moro didn't surpass Beerus, this argument is incredibly silly.

[ZombieVito]

There is something inherently wrong with Beeru's portrait in this story. Isn't his job to deal with threats like Moro?
For f*ck sake, he got almost erased the last arc because he sucked at his job and had a low rate mortals
The manga version of Beerus and Whiss are so emotionless and lack any sort of empathy toward any of the cast even after spending so much time with them.

What is even the point of him in-universe? He does absolutely nothing and I mean nothing at all.
Surely Beerus just coming in and Hakai'ing Momo would be boring but Toyotarou's story lacks so much continuity within its own setting.

Toyo's Beerus and Whis suck. What else is new?

Just compare Beerus reaction to Champa's erasure in both mediums.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Why is Beerus even here? He's clearly not going to do anything and his incompetent self showed in this chap alone. Are Whis and Beerus here just to be talking props or something?

[ssj3kakarot]

I forgot to say...Whis whisked everyone away without Jaco seeing it. There has finally been a limit placed on Jaco's eyesight!!

Right! I was gonna comment on that when I read your post. Finally Jaco couldn't keep up. His eyesight must be insane if it took Whis to speed blitz his vision.....assuming he did it via speed and not some angel ability. Personally, i like to think Whis is just crazy fast.

[DiscountDabi]

Also just a little thing. If Moro had the 7-3 copy ability from the start then this chapter would feel way more impactful that it is now. And since they’ve already nerfed Moro’s Magic we know that won’t be a problem. So yeah, I think Moro dies next chapter unless he pulls something else out of his ass.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Also just a little thing. If Moro had the 7-3 copy ability from the start then this chapter would feel way more impactful that it is now. And since they’ve already nerfed Moro’s Magic we know that won’t be a problem. So yeah, I think Moro dies next chapter unless he pulls something else out of his ass.

The writers: So.....lets make Moro pull something out of his ass!

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see what is so baffling about Moro abilities. It was always hinted that 73 and the other prisoners would be useful for him, if it happened that his current strength wasn’t enough. Just shows how much he has thought up during his long lockdown.

[DiscountDabi]

I don’t see what is so baffling about Moro abilities. It was always hinted that 73 and the other prisoners would be useful for him, if it happened that his current strength wasn’t enough. Just shows how much he has thought up during his long lockdown.

Its less Baffling from a in-universe perspective and more from a narrative perspective. Moro’s Specialty is his Magic. Once Vegeta countered it he just tosses it away and takes 7-3’s.

Hell here is an easy way of doing it. Vegeta has Moro on the ground the same way. Escapes to the ship. Kills Shimmorekka in the same way as before. And then absorbs all of 7-3’s power. This gives him his former power, with Piccolo and Gohans Ki stacked on top. No absorbing 7-3, no unnecessary ass pull powers.

[goku the krump dancer]

Aside from Merus literally be a talking plot device, I really liked this chapter.

On the whole I think Moro was pretty fun to watch, I mean, save from Freeza and maybe Vegeta, how many villains actually have any sort of real "personality" outside of "Bwahaha I'm evil"? I think what Moro was missing is that Toriyama charm that allows rather one noted characters like Daimao and Cell to be overall fun to watch, granted that's subjective in of itself but personally I don''t think Moro's formula is all that different from Boo's honestly ( as far as constant random power ups to keep the threat up ), though now that I think about it, I do wish more was done with the whole Boo/Daikaoshin thing.

[HeroR]

It was a really nice chapter, we finally got to see an angel fighting to the death(his). He used his skills first and when needed, Merus even went "full" angel to seal off for good Moro's technique.
Toyo found a good way to get Merus into the field and let him do his thang. His bond with Goku was really well done, reminiscing about their time together (the anime has material to give us a 5 star episode right there), and seeing Goku suffer while Merus was sacrificing himself was fantastic. His farewell was just great, you have to be a psychopath to not get the feels.
Not to mention, Goku going in to save his friend and fighting Moro even though he was clearly outmatched, when Merus was actually doing pretty good and needed no help.
Merus was a really nice addition and his participation has been key in this arc, actually much more than Beerus in the entire DBS, lol

Probably we have like 3 more chapters to go, I still think Vegeta will play a part in the win, I thought they would end up fighting together but next to MUI Goku, he would be like Alfred fighting alongside Batman, so we'll see what Toyo comes up with.

And, I can't discard Beerus finally doing something, why did he come back for then?

Also, what's up with Whis being such a dick to Merus at the end of the chapter?

Guess I'm a psychopath since I felt nothing about Merus being erased because Merus was a nothing character. To me, he was little more than a badly done OC that I have seen too many times in fanfiction. Not helping that I saw Merus sacrificing for the mortals coming for months, which most fans did honestly, so when Merus died the first thing that came to my mind was this: https://youtu.be/qdJ-wrqXkFs

Toyo didn't developed Meerus well and you can't make people care by cramming all the feels in one chapter. It says a lot when people feels more about 16's death when on paper, Merus is a more developed character. Also not helping that Merus died in the most Sue way possible. Styling on a villain who had no hope of defeating him instead of dying a dog's death like 16 who had his body blown up and then his head stepped on like a bug. Merus also had an air of ‘too good for this sinful world’.

Aside from Merus literally be a talking plot device, I really liked this chapter.

On the whole I think Moro was pretty fun to watch, I mean, save from Freeza and maybe Vegeta, how many villains actually have any sort of real "personality" outside of "Bwahaha I'm evil"? I think what Moro was missing is that Toriyama charm that allows rather one noted characters like Daimao and Cell to be overall fun to watch, granted that's subjective in of itself but personally I don''t think Moro's formula is all that different from Boo's honestly ( as far as constant random power ups to keep the threat up ), though now that I think about it, I do wish more was done with the whole Boo/Daikaoshin thing.

Black and Zamasu? Even Fat Buu who was more of a misguided child than evil and Kid Buu was closer to a force of nature.

And even Moro does pretty much everything he does because "Bwahaha I'm evil". He doesn't have any other personality other than being an evil wizard who eats planets. Moro is basically a walking Dragon Ball villain checklist with no irony.

[Matches Malone]

Vegeta could have been removed from the battle on Earth and everything could have happened in the same way, with Merus appearing and triggering Goku's MUI.

You can apply this logic to anyone though. There's more to a character than just taking out the big bad guy. DB is Goku's story, so of course he's going to get the big wins at the end, but that doesn't mean we need to turn the show into another GT where he's literally the only one doing anything.

[theherodjl]

I really, really hope that the next chapter is the one in which Moro is finally reduced to a smoking pile of ash. If it ends on yet another cliffhanger in which Moro pulls some last-minute powerup or technique out of his ass to buy himself time for another chapter or two(or more, God forbid), I might just ragequit on Toyotaro's manga. I don't care if Goku unlocks MUI and then makes the kamehameha to end all kamehamehas or he just fuses with Vegeta again, I just want to see Moro bite the dust so that this arc will finally be over.

[Matches Malone]

I really, really hope that the next chapter is the one in which Moro is finally reduced to a smoking pile of ash. If it ends on yet another cliffhanger in which Moro pulls some last-minute powerup or technique out of his ass to buy himself time for another chapter or two(or more, God forbid), I might just ragequit on Toyotaro's manga.

I'd like nothing more than to see Moro wiped out next chapter, but it's unlikely. I think Moro will somehow slip away AGAIN before Goku can finish him off, resulting in Vegeta separating him and 7-3 in the following chapter.

[Psajdak]

I wonder if Vegeta's fans finally accepted that he will never matter again...

[Matches Malone]

I wonder if Vegeta's fans finally accepted that he will never matter again...

I'm more interested in how you came to that conclusion, especially with this arc giving him his biggest role yet.

[Miracles]

Beerus and Whis...Straight up savages.

[Kanassa]

And so, Meesus is set to rest, too good for this world of non-sues and okay writing in the most frustrating and cringey way possible. Seriously, this death was the epitome of unearned payoff. Meerus makes a speech about all the character he didn't have, raving about the Galactic patrol who were only retconned as competent in this arc and we've seen almost nothing of them, reciting how he totally had this interesting stuff going on offscreen and caps it off with a last minute lazy flashback to pretend that he and Goku totally had a relationship and this is TOTALLY an emotional and engaging scene. All with Toyo yelling in your ear about how Meerus is so fucking amazing and totally the best OC ever and you should be weeping about this nothing.

I'm sorry, I feel absolutely nothing about this bland, one-note nobody getting wanked off by the narrative as he heroically sacrifices himself. This moment has not been sufficiently developed or built up to at all, he's a good boy who does good things because he's a good person; that's Meerus, that all he does. He has no dynamic with the characters, he exists to be good and be powerful with the only sense of depth coming from the story TELLING us there's depth. This entire moment is the story telling you to be emotional, telling you to be invested. It doesn't actually try to do anything to earn it. 90% of this arc is filler that doesn't mean anything to the characters or plot, but Toyo couldn't find room to fit in developing his OC? No, no, we really needed that extra scene of Moro sitting on his ass or characters standing around going "Oh boy, I wonder how we're going to beat Big Daddy Moro." for the seventh time.

God, I miss the days when I was sad that the civilians or the TOP fighters were killed.

To make this scene even worse, this scene happens all while Meerus utterly humiliates Moro. He destroys the villain that everyone else was struggling against in combat without breaking a sweat, successfully seals away the character's devastating abilities (after an arc of everyone else's contributions constantly being invalidated and made pointless) and only dies because he's just too damn good for this world. This is litearlly the msot Mary Sue death a character can have.

Toyo, just draw some porn of Meerus, I know you want to. And send some of it my way, Meerus is kinda hot.