"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LoganForkHands73]

I'd like to take this opportunity to raise a speculation I made some pages back once again; namely that Moro's arc might be towards becoming the God of Destruction in Beerus's place (albeit with much amended from when I made it).

From a certain perspective, it has advantages to have a creature like Moro, who needs to destroy to survive but apparently can't be killed, being put on a leash and made to do what comes naturally for the 'greater good', rather than leaving the current incompetent incumbent in place.

Mmm... maybe? I mean, the issue with that is, Moro is pure evil. Even if he were put on a leash, he would destroy constantly with no one to stop him. The ideal Hakaishin destroys decadent life when they need to, but are capable of showing restraint. Similar to how Beerus is like a real cat, Moro is much like a real goat in that he'll just eat and eat and eat until the universe is nothing but a dead husk. Considering his personality and goals, I don't think he'd be up to the task, unless Whis is really that sick of the amount of not-destroying Beerus does and wants an extreme exchange, which could be the case.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

I think that's a little mean-spirited for this kind of series, but it is interesting to consider that idea. It's possible that many of the Angels lowkey hate the Hakaishin they're paired with, I mean, waiting hand-on-foot on the same temperamental dude (whose ass you could effortlessly kick if you were physically allowed to) for aeons must get irritating and degrading. Sidra's Angel quite clearly hated him for his incompetence, Vados grills and undermines Champa's authority constantly, etc. Compared to them, Whis is pretty tolerant and he has enough in common with Beerus, namely their shared love of fine dining, that you get the feeling they do enjoy each other's company. I always get the vibe that they're a bitchy gay married couple who squabble constantly but can't live without each other, figuratively and literally.

However, the evidence is stacking up. Beerus's incompetence is reaching a worrying level and Whis obviously manipulated the whole Merus situation. I always took Whis's offerings for Goku and Vegeta to become the next Hakaishin as idle gestures, but maybe he is working a long scheme? Who knows...

I'd like to take this opportunity to raise a speculation I made some pages back once again; namely that Moro's arc might be towards becoming the God of Destruction in Beerus's place (albeit with much amended from when I made it).

From a certain perspective, it has advantages to have a creature like Moro, who needs to destroy to survive but apparently can't be killed, being put on a leash and made to do what comes naturally for the 'greater good', rather than leaving the current incompetent incumbent in place.

As horrible as Beerus is at his job, wouldn't Moro just drain all the other planet's in universe 7? Whose going to stop him? Shin, who he only won't kill because he's life linked to him? Even then, Moro will just ignore Shin realistically like Beerus does.

That's hardly any better than Beerus. With the way Beerus is, even Goku when he's drunk could do a better job at maintaining a universe.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I'd like to take this opportunity to raise a speculation I made some pages back once again; namely that Moro's arc might be towards becoming the God of Destruction in Beerus's place (albeit with much amended from when I made it).

From a certain perspective, it has advantages to have a creature like Moro, who needs to destroy to survive but apparently can't be killed, being put on a leash and made to do what comes naturally for the 'greater good', rather than leaving the current incompetent incumbent in place.

Mmm... maybe? I mean, the issue with that is, Moro is pure evil. Even if he were put on a leash, he would destroy constantly with no one to stop him. The ideal Hakaishin destroys decadent life when they need to, but are capable of showing restraint. Similar to how Beerus is like a real cat, Moro is much like a real goat in that he'll just eat and eat and eat until the universe is nothing but a dead husk. Considering his personality and goals, I don't think he'd be up to the task, unless Whis is really that sick of the amount of not-destroying Beerus does and wants an extreme exchange, which could be the case.

If Whis is that desperate, I don't think hiring the pure evil being who will drain all life in the universe is a good idea. Moro's rule would make Beerus look merciful by comparison, as Moro would just drain entire populations to gain strength until the universe is lifeless and barren. It'd make universe 9 look like paradise. Whis would just be replacing his awful GoD with a worse one. Any planet's Shin tries to create would likely get drained once their population is suitable for Moro's appetite.

[The Undying]

You'd think Moro brutally killed Gohan for Goku to react like this.

Goku would have reacted like that to seeing any of his friends or family members kick the bucket. You needn't look any further than Kuririn's death in the Freeza arc for a sufficient illustration of that point.

Comparing this scene to Goku's reactions in the Boo arc or Resurrection 'F' is pretty disingenuous. It disregards context. In both of those scenes, Goku was preoccupied with feeling responsible for their deaths; Vegeta lectures him about saving Mr. Satan over his own family in the Boo arc, and in Res 'F', Goku laments going too easy on Freeza again, both of which prompt reactions of shame and guilt.

The exact opposite kind of thing transpires in this chapter. Goku does everything he can to prevent Merus from having to sacrifice himself, but Merus decides to do it anyway and he can't help but watch. While this isn't quite the same as when Freeza brutally murdered Kuririn, that traumatized sort of response seems warranted given the circumstances.

[The Bastard.]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

Sorry but you know deep down this doesn't make any sense.

Whis couldn't care less about how Beerus acts, he's not there as a guide but as a helper to the GoD, he let Meerus sacrifice himself because it was Meerus wish to do so, it was clear this was going to happen IF Beerus didn't step in and did his job, and since, obviously, Beerus being Beerus didn't do what he is tasked to do led to Meerus dying. It's clear Beerus doesn't clear about doing his job and that's why he complains about Goku needing help all the time, he literally doesn't see the irony because he's a cat doing things in his cat way, seriously is that so hard to understand? Characters in dragon ball don't deviate so much and they are very one note, being annoyed at the way he is is fine, complaining he doesn't do anything is silly, this is his character since the start, he was going to destroy earth because of a bet for fucks sake, the only place that could save him in the ToP

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

So, what about now?

Will Vegeta still be relevant?

Or will just Goku attain the mastered form of UI in a way similar as he attained SSJ for the first time when Frieza exploded Krillin on Namek?

Was that the needed push?

While Moro won't be able again to access his absorptions powers too.

I am predicting that on the next chapter this saga will certainly come to a conclusion!

Anyone saw this?

[FishermanJohnWest]

It's embarrassing how irrelevant Vegeta really is in the grand scheme of things

They did the same thing they did to Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, and that is Vegeta was nothing but set up for Goku so he can fight a stronger opponent so he can have his precious moment.

Pathetic

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I just...am so tired of this arc. There's just no pay-off. Vegeta should have defeated Moro and Gokuu's arc should have been saved for a different enemy. These arcs don't have to be so long! Just do a six chapter arc for Gokuu and Merus after Moro is defeated!

[Miracles]

It's narrative suicide to think Vegeta would out due Goku.
Besides the Saiyan saga, Vegeta hasn't glowed more than Goku.

[HeroR]

It's embarrassing how irrelevant Vegeta really is in the grand scheme of things

They did the same thing they did to Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, and that is Vegeta was nothing but set up for Goku so he can fight a stronger opponent so he can have his precious moment.

Pathetic

In the case of Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, that was Vegeta's own fault. He could have killed Cell, but he allowed Cell to bait him into allowing him to become perfect even after Trunks told him what an absolutely horrible idea that was and even forced Trunks to blast him. That and it was more of a setup for Gohan than Goku since Goku still lost to Cell. He just put up a better fight and didn't even get to Cell's full power.

Vegeta's role in this arc at the moment (because this can still change) is more akin to Ultimate Gohan. A character who was buildup as the hero, only for him to fall flat on his ass by his own hubris and amount to little more than a free power-up for the villain.

[Xeno Goku Black]

You know this Moro guy is probably gonna die in a chapter or two....and they've pretty much explained nothing about him.

He actually did have a motivation that was mentioned on a single page months ago and nothing about it has ever been brought up again. I bet 95% of readers couldn't even tell you what it was.

What's he after? He just wants to eat energy and that's it. His history never fleshed out again after those first few pages of the chapter when he fought Grand Kai.

They built him up as a powerful magician....he almost never uses magic. His big trump card was actually taken from Seven Three's ability and not even his own.

Aside from using the planets energy against people, ehich doesn't even seem like magic, he hasn't one interesting ability at all.

[FishermanJohnWest]

It's embarrassing how irrelevant Vegeta really is in the grand scheme of things

They did the same thing they did to Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, and that is Vegeta was nothing but set up for Goku so he can fight a stronger opponent so he can have his precious moment.

Pathetic

In the case of Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, that was Vegeta's own fault. He could have killed Cell, but he allowed Cell to bait him into allowing him to become perfect even after Trunks told him what an absolutely horrible idea that was and even forced Trunks to blast him. That and it was more of a setup for Gohan than Goku since Goku still lost to Cell. He just put up a better fight and didn't even get to Cell's full power.

Vegeta's role in this arc at the moment (because this can still change) is more akin to Ultimate Gohan. A character who was buildup as the hero, only for him to fall flat on his ass by his own hubris and amount to little more than a free power-up for the villain.

Same can be said for Moro vs Vegeta and Vegeta talking too much and letting Moro get away.

Agree with the last part, Vegeta is honestly their for fusions and to have his little moment and it goes back to Goku and stays there

[Magnificent Ponta]

Mmm... maybe? I mean, the issue with that is, Moro is pure evil.

Ultimately, from the perspective of a Destroyer God's targets, it really doesn't matter whether they're malign or benign at heart, and that's also true on a cosmic level - it doesn't matter whether they're good or evil themselves, it matters that their targets for destruction are the correct ones, and that they actually get destroyed.

Even if he were put on a leash, he would destroy constantly with no one to stop him. The ideal Hakaishin destroys decadent life when they need to, but are capable of showing restraint. Similar to how Beerus is like a real cat, Moro is much like a real goat in that he'll just eat and eat and eat until the universe is nothing but a dead husk.

As horrible as Beerus is at his job, wouldn't Moro just drain all the other planet's in universe 7? Whose going to stop him?

Ultimately, wouldn't it be the responsibility of the Guide Angel to ensure the Destroyer is guided the right way? Whis and Vados were pretty decisive in intervening when it looked like Beerus and Champa were going to wreck Universe 6(?) way back when. It seems Moro isn't at their level any more than Beerus is, so they can keep him in line if they want to. Again, they shouldn't want to stop him eating, they should just want him to eat the right things. And in prospect, that's easier than trying to motivate someone who hardly does his job at all.

I accept that Moro would strain at the leash imposed on him (in this sense, it would be another sort of prison, but at least one where he's well-fed), and it would be a source of tension and friction that could possibly bear fruit in a future arc, but there's no question he'd actually perform the basic requirements of the role; and other Universal threats should be an extra treat for him to snack on - I can't imagine Moro passing up the opportunity to eat someone on his general level in the way that Beerus ignored Moro.

In fairness, after the last issue, I think this particular resolution is less likely than I thought it might have been a few Chapters back - but if it helps with its plausibility, a "Moro" is also the name of a Brazilian Sherry-based cocktail, so the puns line up

[theherodjl]

I'm just going to go out on a limb and predict the next chapter: Goku will pull out MUI and gain the advantage over Moro in a hand-to-hand fight, leading to Moro using all of his tricks to regain the advantage until Vegeta pops up and uses forced spirit fission to separate 7-3 from Moro's body. Vegeta(or someone else) will manage to destroy 7-3 so that he cannot be absorbed again and finally, MUI Goku will unleash a full power kamehameha into old Moro's face and defeat him once and for all. However, it will then turn out that Moro could shrink himself and managed to duck away from Goku's attack just in the nick of time, fleeing away thinking that he is unnoticed...until a giant Beerus stands over tiny Moro and hakais him out of existence.

[Skar]

It's this. Trying to frame Merus as influential to Goku as Kuririn was doesn't work because we didn't see any of it. Instead, Toyotarou wafted around, showing us pointless fights with Vegeta fighting a random henchman, etc. He had plenty of time to build up this supposed Merus relationship but failed to do so.

Not only that but Goku having this extreme type of reaction toward Merus yet didn't when his family and friends were killed by Boo or when Freeza killed them again in RoF? Yeah, I don't buy it one bit. It's hamfisted, forced drama designed to get a reaction out of people and that's all it is.

I could've misinterpreted but I didn't think it was necessarily implying that Goku formed a super close bond with Meerus. Goku gained respect for him knowing that Meerus wanted to help and do good despite not being allowed as an Angel. Goku's failure to stop Moro is what leads to Meerus sacrificing himself and being erased.

I thought it was closer to #16's death than Krillin's. Gohan had only met #16 recently but #16 sacrificed himself when he had no reason to get involved. If Gohan was able to act earlier and unleash his full power then maybe #16 would've still been alive. What all three have in common is that it was a permanent death for these characters or at least believed to be at the time. Goku assumed Krillin couldn't be wished back since he was already resurrected, #16 was a robot (well #8 was wished back so maybe they never tried with #16), and Meerus was erased. The only way to resurrect Meerus is with the Super Dragonballs which would require Whis helping them crossover to U6 to gather their Dragonballs then make the wish for them. That would be unlikely since he would be violating the Grand Priest or whoever enforces the Angel Law.

Regarding most other deaths in the series, the characters were aware they had the means to resurrect them so their grief wasn't long. When Kid Buu destroyed the Earth, Goku was upset until Dende brought up the Namekian Dragonballs. If Whis didn't rewind time in RoF, Goku would've probably ITed to Namek to restore the Earth again.

[Kinokima]

It's embarrassing how irrelevant Vegeta really is in the grand scheme of things

They did the same thing they did to Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, and that is Vegeta was nothing but set up for Goku so he can fight a stronger opponent so he can have his precious moment.

Pathetic

In the case of Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, that was Vegeta's own fault. He could have killed Cell, but he allowed Cell to bait him into allowing him to become perfect even after Trunks told him what an absolutely horrible idea that was and even forced Trunks to blast him. That and it was more of a setup for Gohan than Goku since Goku still lost to Cell. He just put up a better fight and didn't even get to Cell's full power.

Vegeta's role in this arc at the moment (because this can still change) is more akin to Ultimate Gohan. A character who was buildup as the hero, only for him to fall flat on his ass by his own hubris and amount to little more than a free power-up for the villain.

Same can be said for Moro vs Vegeta and Vegeta talking too much and letting Moro get away.

Agree with the last part, Vegeta is honestly their for fusions and to have his little moment and it goes back to Goku and stays there

Comparing Vegeta “talking too much” and letting Moro get away is the same as what happened with Perfect Cell is just ridiculous. It’s only the fandom that faults Vegeta for talking too much NOT the narrative. In the Cell arc Vegeta’s decisions In that fight were directly responsible for Perfect Cell. The dialogue here was Toyo just fleshing out the chapter.

People also keep forgetting Vegeta’s words to Moro about not being able to fight with his own power that he can only fight by stealing power from others. Which is exactly what Moro did to beat Vegeta.


Also saying Vegeta’s role is done is just as stupid as people who said he was definitely going to beat the main villain this time. The arc isn’t over yet. And again Vegeta still has a move that can separate 7:3 from Moro which they still may need to use. People need to stop jumping to conclusions based on the ending of every chapter.

Hell last month everyone was so sure Merus was going to kill Moro and were saying it was too predictable.

[Psajdak]

I can't take Vegeta seriously anymore.

[FishermanJohnWest]

In the case of Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell, that was Vegeta's own fault. He could have killed Cell, but he allowed Cell to bait him into allowing him to become perfect even after Trunks told him what an absolutely horrible idea that was and even forced Trunks to blast him. That and it was more of a setup for Gohan than Goku since Goku still lost to Cell. He just put up a better fight and didn't even get to Cell's full power.

Vegeta's role in this arc at the moment (because this can still change) is more akin to Ultimate Gohan. A character who was buildup as the hero, only for him to fall flat on his ass by his own hubris and amount to little more than a free power-up for the villain.

Same can be said for Moro vs Vegeta and Vegeta talking too much and letting Moro get away.

Agree with the last part, Vegeta is honestly their for fusions and to have his little moment and it goes back to Goku and stays there

Comparing Vegeta “talking too much” and letting Moro get away is the same as what happened with Perfect Cell is just ridiculous. It’s only the fandom that faults Vegeta for talking too much NOT the narrative. In the Cell arc Vegeta’s decisions In that fight were directly responsible for Perfect Cell. The dialogue here was Toyo just fleshing out the chapter.

People also keep forgetting Vegeta’s words to Moro about not being able to fight with his own power that he can only fight by stealing power from others. Which is exactly what Moro did to beat Vegeta.


Also saying Vegeta’s role is done is just as stupid as people who said he was definitely going to beat the main villain this time. The arc isn’t over yet. And again Vegeta still has a move that can separate 7:3 from Moro which they still may need to use. People need to stop jumping to conclusions based on the ending of every chapter.

Hell last month everyone was so sure Merus was going to kill Moro and were saying it was too predictable.

Same results, both times Vegeta fights was used as set up for the villain to grow stronger so that Goku can fight after, how it lead to that conclusion doesn't matter when the results are the same and Vegeta role was just to make the villain stronger

And Vegeta doing anything out of the norm of DBS is over in general. He is going to do the same as what he did against Zamasu or Jiren or Frieza after Goku had fought with them, pick up the scrapes from the floor after Goku had a back and forward fight with them, burns out cause of some backfire with the power he is using or gets cheap shot, which then would lead Vegeta to come in and do something against a broken down enemy.

And it was predictable, Merus ain't just going to come in and win, hell everyone I talked too know Merus was their to distract Moro for Goku to recover so that he can either Moro again.

[Kinokima]

Same can be said for Moro vs Vegeta and Vegeta talking too much and letting Moro get away.

Agree with the last part, Vegeta is honestly their for fusions and to have his little moment and it goes back to Goku and stays there

Comparing Vegeta “talking too much” and letting Moro get away is the same as what happened with Perfect Cell is just ridiculous. It’s only the fandom that faults Vegeta for talking too much NOT the narrative. In the Cell arc Vegeta’s decisions In that fight were directly responsible for Perfect Cell. The dialogue here was Toyo just fleshing out the chapter.

People also keep forgetting Vegeta’s words to Moro about not being able to fight with his own power that he can only fight by stealing power from others. Which is exactly what Moro did to beat Vegeta.


Also saying Vegeta’s role is done is just as stupid as people who said he was definitely going to beat the main villain this time. The arc isn’t over yet. And again Vegeta still has a move that can separate 7:3 from Moro which they still may need to use. People need to stop jumping to conclusions based on the ending of every chapter.

Hell last month everyone was so sure Merus was going to kill Moro and were saying it was too predictable.

Same results, both times Vegeta fights was used as set up for the villain to grow stronger so that Goku can fight after, how it lead to that conclusion doesn't matter when the results are the same and Vegeta role was just to make the villain stronger

And Vegeta doing anything out of the norm of DBS is over in general. He is going to do the same as what he did against Zamasu or Jiren or Frieza after Goku had fought with them, pick up the scrapes from the floor after Goku had a back and forward fight with them, burns out cause of some backfire with the power he is using or gets cheap shot, which then would lead Vegeta to come in and do something against a broken down enemy.

And it was predictable, Merus ain't just going to come in and win, hell everyone I talked too know Merus was their to distract Moro for Goku to recover so that he can either Moro again.

Sure everyone knew Merus was just there to distract Moro when everyone was practically saying something different last month lol

You can go back and read the many replies in this thread that contradict what you are saying. It was the same on Twitter too people complaining that Merus an Angel was going to solve the situation instead of the main characters


I almost guarantee you that Vegeta’s role isn’t over yet and that it will most likely be a joint effort of UI and Spirit Fission. Again Goku failed the first time too with his new “power up” and is now getting a second chance but that is being ignored.


Also Vegeta didn’t make the villain “stronger” the only thing stealing spirit fission from Vegeta did was to write in that Goku & Vegeta can’t fuse which they probably weren’t planning to use anyway this arc. Stealing Vegeta’s abilities isn’t what made Moro more of a threat it was eating 7:3. Which in the end only proved Vegeta’s point.


Anyways I wish people would stop complaining about things that haven’t actually happened yet. You can say you know it’s going to happen exactly like this all you want but the fact is you don’t know until it does. You could be wrong and so could I. But criticizing something that hasn’t actually happened is counter productive

[Psajdak]

Vegeta has like decades long record of embarassing himself; not sure why would now be any different...