Would it have been better for Vegeta if he just, like, died forever...?

[Psajdak]

I honestly don't want to bash Vegeta, he is together with Gohan probably the best developed character in the entire franchise.

But the thing about him is that as much as he is for years hyped as character as central as Goku (nowadays), in the end end he just ends up being a dissapointment.

Already in Moro arc, where it seemed that this will FINALLY be his arc, he is now irrelevant, maybe he will get some cheap shot, but that's about it.

Just watching him is suffering.

...

Which brings me to the main thing - as I continue seeing Vegeta being garbage over and over (except when it comes to fusing with Goku), I find myself appreciating Raditz more and more - true, by current standards he is weak, but when he was alive, he was tough, dangerous, it took two strongest Earth fighters to kill him, and Goku actually had to die for that to happen, and that was the end of it.

I feel like Kuririn killing Vegeta, or Freeza on Namek, hell, he didn't even had to die, the end of Cell saga, when Vegeta says that he will never fight again after all the loses and failures would have been logical closure to his arc, and if one needs to go even further, him dying agains Majin Buu, but to be honest, as much as that part is so iconic, it still felt out of character, IMO.

I have no idea why authors even bother having him around Goku nowadays...

[Peach]

From a story perspective, I think Vegeta and Goku taking the back seat and Gohan getting serious about training would have been the best move.

With the Cell saga, Goku handed the keys to the car over to Gohan. Then before Goku visited, they got pretty serious about the world building for Gohan, Videl, Goten, and Trunks. I think they could have continued that. Possibly with Uub and Pan.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Honestly, have him kill himself and take Moro with him, and keep him dead.

This is a Goku show, and he clearly ain't no rival to Goku

[Lionel]

Vegeta does represent paradigm of how even members of a ruthless and blood thirsty species such as the Saiyans are capable of redemption; of embracing some measure of humanity and becoming something more than just a fiend. Piccolo definitely represents a similar ideal though the background of his corruption was rooted in the corruption of mankind tainting the original Child of Katas. Vegeta's brutality was rooted in familial cultivation and instinct. I think those conditions serve as crucial differences between the Saiyan Prince and Piccolo.

After having said that, I do feel like Vegeta's own progression has been left wanting. Toriyama's last two original arcs compelled Vegeta to evaluate the darkness in his heart and come to the realisation of who he is and what ultimately matters most in his life. Toyotaro has flitted about with untapped plot concepts such as Vegeta's relationship with civilisational Saiyans in Cabba as well as the aftermath of one of the atrocities he perpetrated when he encounters the Namekians after so many years and having parted ways on, at best, tense and awkward terms.

Toyotaro has made some inroads in offering well meaning sub-plot of Vegeta's own, I have to grant him that. Still, this duopolistic relationship he's had with Goku has been continuously dragged on since the end of the Buu arc with little seeming to upset it. Many of us wish that the old dynamics of the ensemble couldn't be incorporated into the modern series. A one foot in/one foot out model that arcs suc has Moro have used does not really hold up to the old standard when others were engaged in the narrational and adventurous aspects -- not just serving as the front line barricade to the minions of the main antagonist.

I will agree with Peach. My thoughts are that Toriyama should have persisted in his original motive of having Gohan take the reigns while developing the "new generation". In spite of the new elements introduced, current Dragon Ball still holds a blandish resemblance to the old "Goku pushing for #1" model that's been in existence since the earliest arcs. Is that bad thing? Not necessarily as surpassing his limits and challenging new and stronger opponents is what defines Goku's characterisation. I personally feel that something different could have been explored with a protagonist as different in attitude as Gohan.

[LoganForkHands73]

Gohan pushing on to become the main protagonist would have been nice and all, but I think the Buu arc is fundamentally Vegeta's arc (and... well, Buu's ) and if Gohan had taken over, we would have probably never gotten Vegeta's brilliantly handled mid-life-crisis conflict (which was probably the most active role Vegeta had played in the plot since the early Android arc) with no Goku to drive said conflict. Goku's return ended up exemplifying why Gohan wasn't cut out for the role, because Goku is a far more active protagonist - some might say Toriyama chickened out of writing outside of his comfort zone, but I think it shows his great instincts and his knowledge of his own limits (ironically, considering the themes of Dragon Ball). If Toriyama pushed forward, he knew that he would have still been unhappy with the direction, and chances were that Goku and Vegeta were going to return to the spotlight no matter what, so it was a blessing in disguise to establish them as the main focal points early on.

After that? Maybe Vegeta could have started taking a backseat, but when you see Goku and Vegeta's dynamic as fighting partners towards the very end of the Buu arc, you can definitely see the early trappings of Super. Amazingly, we'd never really seen Goku and Vegeta properly team up in the manga prior to this, and Toriyama happened to strike gold which was ripe for more mining. Considering the ready success of Vegeta acting as a deuteragonist to Goku, it made sense for Super to focus on their relationship. It's become the default, to a point where I can agree it's not that new or exciting anymore and in desperate need of spicing up. However, even now, it's sometimes cool to think that a former villain of Vegeta's calibre is still fighting against bigger threats alongside Goku.

[DevilKing99]

Gohan pushing on to become the main protagonist would have been nice and all, but I think the Buu arc is fundamentally Vegeta's arc (and... well, Buu's ) and if Gohan had taken over, we would have probably never gotten Vegeta's brilliantly handled mid-life-crisis conflict (which was probably the most active role Vegeta had played in the plot since the early Android arc) with no Goku to drive said conflict. Goku's return ended up exemplifying why Gohan wasn't cut out for the role, because Goku is a far more active protagonist - some might say Toriyama chickened out of writing outside of his comfort zone, but I think it shows his great instincts and his knowledge of his own limits (ironically, considering the themes of Dragon Ball). If Toriyama pushed forward, he knew that he would have still been unhappy with the direction, and chances were that Goku and Vegeta were going to return to the spotlight no matter what, so it was a blessing in disguise to establish them as the main focal points early on.

After that? Maybe Vegeta could have started taking a backseat, but when you see Goku and Vegeta's dynamic as fighting partners towards the very end of the Buu arc, you can definitely see the early trappings of Super. Amazingly, we'd never really seen Goku and Vegeta properly team up in the manga prior to this, and Toriyama happened to strike gold which was ripe for more mining. Considering the ready success of Vegeta acting as a deuteragonist to Goku, it made sense for Super to focus on their relationship. It's become the default, to a point where I can agree it's not that new or exciting anymore and in desperate need of spicing up. However, even now, it's sometimes cool to think that a former villain of Vegeta's calibre is still fighting against bigger threats alongside Goku.

Yeah, the focus on Vegeta and Goku has gotten very boring to me.

I really think they should expand the world and get away from those two, in the end they would make money by doing that anyways.

[UI Peter]

This could easily be applied to literally every other reoccurring character except Goku. They all have a worse track record than Vegeta (even Gohan).

In fact, if you killed off for good all of the human fighters & even Piccolo at the end of the Saiyan arc, nothing major would change in the future of the series (which shows how irrelevant and pointless most of the DB cast really is when you think about it).

[DragonBallFoodie]

But who could take his place as a rival to Goku to keep him fighting-ready?

[Matches Malone]

Vegeta didn't fail against Moro, he managed to free the energy he stole and even bring back some of the Namakians he killed. Up to that point, Vegeta was also the only one who was able to match him in combat. Vegeta not getting the kill (as of now) shouldn't take anything away from what he's already accomplished.

[DevilKing99]

This could easily be applied to literally every other reoccurring character except Goku. They all have a worse track record than Vegeta (even Gohan).

In fact, if you killed off for good all of the human fighters & even Piccolo at the end of the Saiyan arc, nothing major would change in the future of the series (which shows how irrelevant and pointless most of the DB cast really is when you think about it).

I say this all of the time, even as a major fan of Tien, they might as well replace them with characters from the different universes.

Piccolo is like the only character from OG Dragon Ball that can even get a power up among them.

It's funny too how the androids are dramatically more important than they are, an Android just won the tournament, and Android 17 even showed up to fight in heroes before flipping Gohan did, A game about an Android came out 2 years ago.

[UI Peter]

Vegeta didn't fail against Moro, he managed to free the energy he stole and even bring back some of the Namakians he killed. Up to that point, Vegeta was also the only one who was able to match him in combat. Vegeta not getting the kill (as of now) shouldn't take anything away from what he's already accomplished.

Especially when you consider how he beat 14 people in the ToP anime (including a GoD) and Goku Black.

[Xeogran]

Uhh Vegeta has a family now, so it's pretty much impossible to write him out unless you'd want to anger a huge chunk of your fanbase. He can be gone temporarily but die forever? That was only possible back in the Saiyan Saga days (until his popularity got Toriyama to keep him alive)

[Steven Bloodriver]

But who could take his place as a rival to Goku to keep him fighting-ready?

Tien Shinhan or Piccolo.

[UI Peter]

But who could take his place as a rival to Goku to keep him fighting-ready?

Tien Shinhan or Piccolo.

That shipped had sunk a long time ago. The only other character that would work as Goku's main rival besides Vegeta is Freeza.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Maybe a long time ago, but that ship has since set sail and is now too important to let die.

Vegeta is integral to the core of modern DB now. He's Goku's consistent rival and friend nowadays, now the second strongest of the characters from the original run. He provides a different but similar take to Goku, with his motivations for becoming stronger not exactly moving on from Goku as the main goal but not being centred around him in an unhealthy manner like in the Buu Arc.

He's the friendly but also not so friendly rival of Goku now.