Preserving the Nicktoons Airings of DB Material

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I can’t believe people are advocating to preserved the censored version of a show.

I don't really see why we shouldn't. Obviously nobody should be watching it in place of uncut Kai except out of nostalgia, but it would be nice to have decent quality versions to have for preservation's sake.

I mean, i've got some old recordings of the '90s Z dub with the Ocean cast and OG DB and even with having the full uncut versions on DVD it's cool to pop those in for nostalgia.

[KPike87]

s well known Nick had a lot of the movies, the two TV specials and episode 98 on their site. There are archives to most if not all of them, but the TV Specials and episode 98 are special as they seem to be the only ones that can load the play

Aw, that's a shame. I am really glad I got another set of eyes to look at it though, thanks a bunch!

It's kind of hard to believe it's been a decade since Kai started airing on Nicktoons. It's what got me and countless other kids at the time into the fandom. While generally not remembered too fondly now due to the censoring, they're still unique versions of Kai, GT, and some of the movies.

This is a great example of debunking the bullshit people spew when they say "They didn't stay faithful to the original because the DUBISMS were so ingrained in the fandom!". Imagine how much better it would be if they did things right from the start.

The edits Nickelodeon had in their version of Kai may be more severe than Cartoon Network's post Saban Z episodes, but honestly watching it on Nickelodeon is still way more preferable. Kai is simply better if you want to watch in English. There's no, "Your shoe laces are untied" nonsense (there was the truck guy, but that was a one time thing), no localized score, etc. Nicktoons Kai is just all around a much better show than what Cartoon Network aired in the late 90's/early 2000's. This is all moot now as they're both long gone, but I just think it's an interesting topic, as to which is the better show, either as a kid or as an adult.

[kei17]

The rarest thing from Nicktoons must be the rebroadcasts of the early Android arc after Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism. Initially, Toei seems to have tried to handle the situation by replacing only the particular pieces of music confirmed to be plagiarized, so Nicktoons' rebroadcasts got some tracks replaced with then-clean ones. This is the only video clip that I've seen from this verion:

Spoiler:

Original Broadcast:

Rebroadcast:

[TheBlackPaladin]

This will sound oddly weird/specific, but there was one thing that the Nicktoons broadcast did as a result of a necessary edit that I actually really liked. For the episode where Freeza stabs Kuririn, they of course couldn't show the stab as graphically as the original Japanese version showed it. So, they had to edit out a few seconds of the stab.

That's not the cool part...the cool part was, to make up for the lost time, "Only A Chilling Elegy" had to start playing a tad sooner, resulting in a super-subtle but cool change: Freeza closes his eyes as he decides who he's going to kill next, and the chorus of the song kicks in at the precise moment that he makes his decision (Kuririn) and opens his eyes. Again, it was a very minor change, but it struck me as perfect timing/placement of the music. Just that subtle visual of him opening his eyes right as the terrifying chorus starts in full...it just made the scene a tad more terrifying.

Nitpicky, I know. But what is Kanzenshuu if not a place for us Dragon Ball fans to nitpick?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The rarest thing from Nicktoons must be the rebroadcasts of the early Android arc after Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism. Initially, Toei seems to have tried to handle the situation by replacing only the particular pieces of music confirmed to be plagiarized, so Nicktoons' rebroadcasts got some tracks replaced with then-clean ones. This is the only video clip that I've seen from this verion:

Spoiler:

Original Broadcast:

Rebroadcast:

The Nicktoons Kai broadcast is the only officially released version of episodes 53-63 in the English dub with the Yamamoto score as not even the home releases made it that far.

[kei17]

The rarest thing from Nicktoons must be the rebroadcasts of the early Android arc after Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism. Initially, Toei seems to have tried to handle the situation by replacing only the particular pieces of music confirmed to be plagiarized, so Nicktoons' rebroadcasts got some tracks replaced with then-clean ones. This is the only video clip that I've seen from this verion:

Spoiler:

Original Broadcast:

Rebroadcast:

The Nicktoons Kai broadcast is the only officially released version of episodes 53-63 in the English dub with the Yamamoto score as not even the home releases made it that far.

To be precise, they never finished the initial run of these episodes with the truly original score. They had already started to replace the infringing tracks during the original broadcast, so some scenes had different tracks compared to the Japanese version. However, since it was probably a sudden decision made in reaction to Toei's request, the pre-replacement Yamamoto score actually slipped into Nicktoons' online streaming on their website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUfSUsb9wds

Incidentally, oddly enough, episode 60 was mistakenly broadcast on Cartoon Network Brazil with the English dialog and the original score, so it was once aired on TV at least, but not in the United States. The audio was switched back to the Portuguese dub with the Kikuchi score in the middle of the episode.

[ArmenianPepsi]

The rarest thing from Nicktoons must be the rebroadcasts of the early Android arc after Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism. Initially, Toei seems to have tried to handle the situation by replacing only the particular pieces of music confirmed to be plagiarized, so Nicktoons' rebroadcasts got some tracks replaced with then-clean ones. This is the only video clip that I've seen from this verion:

Spoiler:

Original Broadcast:

Rebroadcast:

The Nicktoons Kai broadcast is the only officially released version of episodes 53-63 in the English dub with the Yamamoto score as not even the home releases made it that far.

To be precise, they never finished the initial run of these episodes with the truly original score. They had already started to replace the infringing tracks during the original broadcast, so some scenes had different tracks compared to the Japanese version. However, since it was probably a sudden decision made in reaction to Toei's request, the pre-replacement Yamamoto score actually slipped into Nicktoons' online streaming on their website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUfSUsb9wds

Incidentally, oddly enough, episode 60 was mistakenly broadcast on Cartoon Network Brazil with the English dialog and the original score, so it was once aired on TV at least, but not in the United States. The audio was switched back to the Portuguese dub with the Kikuchi score in the middle of the episode.

Oh wow that Brazilian CN clip is so cool. Imagine the sheer luck of this probable one time slip-up to be captured?

[Planetnamek]

s well known Nick had a lot of the movies, the two TV specials and episode 98 on their site. There are archives to most if not all of them, but the TV Specials and episode 98 are special as they seem to be the only ones that can load the play

Aw, that's a shame. I am really glad I got another set of eyes to look at it though, thanks a bunch!

It's kind of hard to believe it's been a decade since Kai started airing on Nicktoons. It's what got me and countless other kids at the time into the fandom. While generally not remembered too fondly now due to the censoring, they're still unique versions of Kai, GT, and some of the movies.

This is a great example of debunking the bullshit people spew when they say "They didn't stay faithful to the original because the DUBISMS were so ingrained in the fandom!". Imagine how much better it would be if they did things right from the start.

The edits Nickelodeon had in their version of Kai may be more severe than Cartoon Network's post Saban Z episodes, but honestly watching it on Nickelodeon is still way more preferable. Kai is simply better if you want to watch in English. There's no, "Your shoe laces are untied" nonsense (there was the truck guy, but that was a one time thing), no localized score, etc. Nicktoons Kai is just all around a much better show than what Cartoon Network aired in the late 90's/early 2000's. This is all moot now as they're both long gone, but I just think it's an interesting topic, as to which is the better show, either as a kid or as an adult.

I consider Kai worse because of the terrible looking re-animated scenes and the cutting out of way too much material for my liking.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Kai is definitely worse than DBZ overall, and I'll admit, I'd have no interest in Kai if it weren't for the dub. That said, the dub is pretty much the reason I watch Kai. I know it's not an English-language show in origin, but I mentally think of it that way because I'm primarily watching it for the new, much better dub. I know the dub wasn't as improved upon from the DBZ dub as some people might prefer, but when I hear the words "Kai dub," the moments that are recalled are not the hiccups in the writing or the occasional odd acting choice here and there.

Actually, I'm just gonna say it: I think the single-most iconic scene of Dragon Ball in the history of English dubbing is Goku's "I Am" speech. I say that because, if you want a perfect comparison of one dub vs another, there is literally no better scene to use for comparison's sake than that scene.

-DBZ Version: It encapsulates everything that went terribly wrong. Poorly-adapted scripts, actors who meant well but were new to their roles, questionable casting choices, replaced music.

-Kai Version: It encapsulates everything that went beautifully right. Properly-adapted scripts, actors who were much more confident in their acting, phenomenal casting choices, and the original music.

[Aim]

The edits Nickelodeon had in their version of Kai may be more severe than Cartoon Network's post Saban Z episodes, but honestly watching it on Nickelodeon is still way more preferable. Kai is simply better if you want to watch in English. There's no, "Your shoe laces are untied" nonsense (there was the truck guy, but that was a one time thing), no localized score, etc. Nicktoons Kai is just all around a much better show than what Cartoon Network aired in the late 90's/early 2000's. This is all moot now as they're both long gone, but I just think it's an interesting topic, as to which is the better show, either as a kid or as an adult.

Oh yeah I have no doubt about it. I'm just saying they could have got everything right when they had the second time to do the series with Kai, I'll always watch the Japanese until a different company comes out or at least Ocean releases their DB Kai.

[KPike87]

I couldn't find much information on this, but the Blu Ray and TV versions of this shot in episode 75 seems to differ; one is the original shot, but the TV version seems to be one of those terrible redrawn scenes. All instances of this shot are representative of all times they're shown in their respective versions of the episode. If anyone has access to what this scene looks like on the Japanese DVD, the Blu Ray, and the broadcast version, that would be a massive help.

The rarest thing from Nicktoons must be the rebroadcasts of the early Android arc after Toei acknowledged Yamamoto's plagiarism. Initially, Toei seems to have tried to handle the situation by replacing only the particular pieces of music confirmed to be plagiarized, so Nicktoons' rebroadcasts got some tracks replaced with then-clean ones. This is the only video clip that I've seen from this verion:

Spoiler:

Original Broadcast:

Rebroadcast:

That's pretty neat, I didn't realize they were different from the Japanese broadcast versions. (Didn't they coincidentally stop the home releases in Japan with the Yamamoto score at episode 63ish as well?)

Also, what's worth noting is the reruns of episodes 1-63 that use the Kikuchi score, some of the lines have been changed. I'm not sure if it was Nickelodeon that made the decision or if it was Funimation or Ocean not realizing, but while curses were still left out (at least I never caught any back in the day), references to death were restored, after the point they stopped initially, which is around episode 20 or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQ5_oX1rec

I'm willing to bet this was Nick's decision, as I doubt all the references to death were left in the Toonzai/CW Kikuchi versions, and Nick has shows like Avatar that reference death pretty frequently, so I could see them preferring a lot of the uncut lines. These episodes are probably going to be a lot harder to find, as the home releases had caught up mostly at this point so there wasn't really much of a reason to share them online. Oh well.

I consider Kai worse because of the terrible looking re-animated scenes and the cutting out of way too much material for my liking.

Honestly, that's fair. But DBZ Kai is one of the only real good English dubs I've seen, and so much better than the original, to the point I look past a lot of that. Watching the original show in Japanese is the way to go, but Kai with the English dub using the Dragon Box footage is a close second to me.

[kei17]

Incidentally, oddly enough, episode 60 was mistakenly broadcast on Cartoon Network Brazil with the English dialog and the original score, so it was once aired on TV at least, but not in the United States. The audio was switched back to the Portuguese dub with the Kikuchi score in the middle of the episode.

Oh wow that Brazilian CN clip is so cool. Imagine the sheer luck of this probable one time slip-up to be captured?

IIRC, this was the first broadcast on CN Brazil, so a lot of people must've seen and recorded it.

I couldn't find much information on this, but the Blu Ray and TV versions of this shot in episode 75 seems to differ; one is the original shot, but the TV version seems to be one of those terrible redrawn scenes. All instances of this shot are representative of all times they're shown in their respective versions of the episode. If anyone has access to what this scene looks like on the Japanese DVD, the Blu Ray, and the broadcast version, that would be a massive help.

That redrawn animation is originally from a different shot with the same cels. They replaced the earlier shot with the later redrawn one to avoid editing the same animation again for censorship. Maybe you wonder why Toei didn't insert the redrawn animation to both of these shots in the first place considering they're basically the same (the necessity of digital tracing here aside), but this kind of inconsistency always happens throughout the entire first batch of Kai.



There is also a particular shot that has redrawn animation in the widescreen version, but got reverted in the 4:3 footage. They could've done the same to all the other shots redrawn solely for extension of the frame for widescreen.

That's pretty neat, I didn't realize they were different from the Japanese broadcast versions. (Didn't they coincidentally stop the home releases in Japan with the Yamamoto score at episode 63ish as well?)

No, it lasted until episode 76.

Also, what's worth noting is the reruns of episodes 1-63 that use the Kikuchi score, some of the lines have been changed. I'm not sure if it was Nickelodeon that made the decision or if it was Funimation or Ocean not realizing, but while curses were still left out (at least I never caught any back in the day), references to death were restored, after the point they stopped initially, which is around episode 20 or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQ5_oX1rec

I'm willing to bet this was Nick's decision, as I doubt all the references to death were left in the Toonzai/CW Kikuchi versions, and Nick has shows like Avatar that reference death pretty frequently, so I could see them preferring a lot of the uncut lines. These episodes are probably going to be a lot harder to find, as the home releases had caught up mostly at this point so there wasn't really much of a reason to share them online. Oh well.

I don't think that sort of changes were always intended because there was a hilarious editing error in the Kikuchi score version of episode 24, which has nothing to do with censorship. Maybe it was not as simple as just replacing the music track and they had to redo all the audio edits in some cases, which lead to mistakes.

[Robo4900]

I consider Kai worse because of the terrible looking re-animated scenes and the cutting out of way too much material for my liking.

Honestly, that's fair. But DBZ Kai is one of the only real good English dubs I've seen, and so much better than the original, to the point I look past a lot of that. Watching the original show in Japanese is the way to go, but Kai with the English dub using the Dragon Box footage is a close second to me.

I didn't write the post you're quoting.

[KPike87]

I consider Kai worse because of the terrible looking re-animated scenes and the cutting out of way too much material for my liking.

Honestly, that's fair. But DBZ Kai is one of the only real good English dubs I've seen, and so much better than the original, to the point I look past a lot of that. Watching the original show in Japanese is the way to go, but Kai with the English dub using the Dragon Box footage is a close second to me.

I didn't write the post you're quoting.

My apologies.

Spoiler:

I couldn't find much information on this, but the Blu Ray and TV versions of this shot in episode 75 seems to differ; one is the original shot, but the TV version seems to be one of those terrible redrawn scenes. All instances of this shot are representative of all times they're shown in their respective versions of the episode. If anyone has access to what this scene looks like on the Japanese DVD, the Blu Ray, and the broadcast version, that would be a massive help.

That redrawn animation is originally from a different shot with the same cels. They replaced the earlier shot with the later redrawn one to avoid editing the same animation again for censorship. Maybe you wonder why Toei didn't insert the redrawn animation to both of these shots in the first place considering they're basically the same (the necessity of digital tracing here aside), but this kind of inconsistency always happens throughout the entire first batch of Kai.



There is also a particular shot that has redrawn animation in the widescreen version, but got reverted in the 4:3 footage. They could've done the same to all the other shots redrawn solely for extension of the frame for widescreen.

That's pretty neat, I didn't realize they were different from the Japanese broadcast versions. (Didn't they coincidentally stop the home releases in Japan with the Yamamoto score at episode 63ish as well?)

No, it lasted until episode 76.

Also, what's worth noting is the reruns of episodes 1-63 that use the Kikuchi score, some of the lines have been changed. I'm not sure if it was Nickelodeon that made the decision or if it was Funimation or Ocean not realizing, but while curses were still left out (at least I never caught any back in the day), references to death were restored, after the point they stopped initially, which is around episode 20 or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQ5_oX1rec

I'm willing to bet this was Nick's decision, as I doubt all the references to death were left in the Toonzai/CW Kikuchi versions, and Nick has shows like Avatar that reference death pretty frequently, so I could see them preferring a lot of the uncut lines. These episodes are probably going to be a lot harder to find, as the home releases had caught up mostly at this point so there wasn't really much of a reason to share them online. Oh well.

I don't think that sort of changes were always intended because there was a hilarious editing error in the Kikuchi score version of episode 24, which has nothing to do with censorship. Maybe it was not as simple as just replacing the music track and they had to redo all the audio edits in some cases, which lead to mistakes.

That makes sense when switching between the 16:9 and 4:3 builds of the show, but that's still odd how there's a difference between the 4:3 versions. They do switch between hand drawn and traced with the same shots, however, like when Goku first meets Cell or letting Freeza power up in episode 49, after the screen cuts away and back:

Spoiler:

That voice error is hilarious, and it illustrates how quickly they had to re-do the audio, letting an obvious mistake slip by. I'm not sure if it's more complicated than just replacing the soundtrack or it has to be redone, but since the "Remastered Audio" of Z uses old, unfinished versions of the Faulconer placement, it may be more complicated. I don't see CW/Toonzai letting references to death slip by, it's possible the stations were given the uncut lines in addition to the cut ones (just handed all the assets on hand, pretty much), but that's just speculation, if we're assuming Kikuchi episodes on Toonzai didn't have references to death. References to death were left in on GT it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erFgQuWKVYw, so whether restoring death for DBZ Kai was intentional or not, it's hard to say, but having that error could prove it wasn't intended and was just rushed without being proof watched. This branch seems to never have had a grasp on voices: https://twitter.com/rixor14/status/1228582802393833473