Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Lionel]

Anyone that Hit's attacks can penetrate will die. Someone with sufficient durability beyond Hit's AP, will tank the damage.

So even locations like the eyes, groin, or Adam's Apple would be immune thanks to power level?

Well these are norotious irl weak spots that haven't been exploited in dragon ball, unless I am forgetting something, so yes.

Durability > all

Assuming Hit's enemy doesn't possess the reaction speed to counter. Which is hardly the case given how durability, strength, speed etc all go up together die to the power level increase.

Besides, if the enemy is an alien, their weak points may entirely differ.

Well we do see a crippled Goku using the last of his ki to scar an Oozaru Vegeta in the eye during the Saiyan arc. Ability to successfully land attacks like that would still be necessary, though. Something creative would have to be used in that case.

[Skar]

Which frankly would make sense. The cap of mortal power is that of Gods of Destruction. Which would also clarify why beings like SSB KK Vegito or SS4 KK XGogeta didn't feel all that more powerful than their normal peak power. Multipliers and all yes, but you could argue that standard multipliers can't break off the MUI ceiling, which would mean Vegito Blue or Vegito Blue KK×20 have a significantly less difference in strength.

Although the fusions themselves come into question as a mean of gaining power beyond normal conditions.

Yeah that's a good point. I recall Base Gogeta was stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta individually but Blue Gogeta might still be weaker than UI Goku. There could be a threshold that fusions can't surpass without having UI. Do we know how long Blue Vegetto and Gogeta lasted? If it was only a few minutes then maybe a UI fusion might only last a few seconds or immediately defuses them when they try to powerup to the form.

[Koitsukai]

So here's a question -- how do others interpret Hit's pressure points style in the anime? Do they operate outside of power levels? Could Hit stop the heart of anyone if he wanted to or strike at some fatal region with success?

I'm thinking that if he could, then Jiren would've died. Yeah, Hit would've been eliminated but so would've the strongest competitor.

Of course, if Sorbet could injure a distracted Goku, then in a certain scenario everything is possible, but someone stronger and focused shouldn't die.
Depends on how much stronger Hit's foe is and if he knows about the time manipulation. Vegeta was stronger than Hit but had no idea what was going on, Hit could've killed him easily. But then Goku did know and had little trouble with it. If Hit didn't improve his TS, not even going for the kill he would've been able to touch Goku.

[ankokudaishogun]

So here's a question -- how do others interpret Hit's pressure points style in the anime? Do they operate outside of power levels? Could Hit stop the heart of anyone if he wanted to or strike at some fatal region with success?

I'm thinking that if he could, then Jiren would've died. Yeah, Hit would've been eliminated but so would've the strongest competitor.

yeah, no way Hit wouldn't sacrifice himself to take out Jiren if he could

...except Hit didn't manage to hit Jiren except with his Time-Stop technique. So, yeah.

[Lionel]

So here's a question -- how do others interpret Hit's pressure points style in the anime? Do they operate outside of power levels? Could Hit stop the heart of anyone if he wanted to or strike at some fatal region with success?

I'm thinking that if he could, then Jiren would've died. Yeah, Hit would've been eliminated but so would've the strongest competitor.

Of course, if Sorbet could injure a distracted Goku, then in a certain scenario everything is possible, but someone stronger and focused shouldn't die.
Depends on how much stronger Hit's foe is and if he knows about the time manipulation. Vegeta was stronger than Hit but had no idea what was going on, Hit could've killed him easily. But then Goku did know and had little trouble with it. If Hit didn't improve his TS, not even going for the kill he would've been able to touch Goku.

As interesting as Hit's Time-Skip ability is, I'm just as fascinated by his pressure points style. Did Hit ever really attempt to use his Kyushojitsu in the anime while fighting Jiren? From a pragmatist's point of view, aiming for the eyes and groin would -- while not being the most dignifying of approaches -- provide the most vulnerable openings. Granted, we don't know if Jiren's anatomy would allow for the latter point to severely impact him.

[Hugo Boss]

So here's a question -- how do others interpret Hit's pressure points style in the anime? Do they operate outside of power levels? Could Hit stop the heart of anyone if he wanted to or strike at some fatal region with success?

I think there is a room for how much those attacks work on Dragon Ball. Hit managed to stop Goku’s heart, but Jiren’s not. He probably knew that, which is why he also added his time-lock skill. Jiren’s super large ki might work as a shield. If this was the same Jiren that fought 17 and Freeza in episode 131 perhaps Hit would have success.

[Dragon Wukong]

I think there is a room for how much those attacks work on Dragon Ball. Hit managed to stop Goku’s heart, but Jiren’s not. He probably knew that, which is why he also added his time-lock skill. Jiren’s super large ki might work as a shield. If this was the same Jiren that fought 17 and Freeza in episode 131 perhaps Hit would have success.

I don't think it's that Hit wasn't able to stop Jiren's heart, he was most likely adhering to the rules of the tournament so as not to kill anyone. The impact effect on Jiren's chest was likely just a visual similarity

[ZombieVito]

So it's been over 2 years since Super ended and I wanted to see how everyone thinks about these so let's see, If Beerus is 1000, how would you score these characters?

Grand Priest:
Whis:
Blue Gogeta [Broly]:
UI Goku:
UI Omen Goku [3rd time]:
UI Omen Goku [2nd time]:
UI Omen Goku [1st time]:
Blue Goku [Broly]:
Blue Goku [ToP]:
Blue Goku [Zamasu]:
FPSS Broly:
SS Broly:
Iraki Broly:
Jiren [LB]:
Jiren:
Champa:
GoD Toppo:
Toppo:
SS2 Kefla:
SS Kefla:
Kefla:
Hit [ToP]:
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo]:
SSBE Vegeta:
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]:
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]:
SSI FT Trunks:
Corruped Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]:
Corrupted Merged Zamasu:
Merged Zamasu:
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]:
17 [ToP]:
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]:
Aniraza:

[Hugo Boss]

My Dragon Ball Super powerlevel list:

Spoiler:

Grand Priest: 2,000
Whis: 1,500
Beerus: 1,000
Blue Gogeta [Broly]: 970
UI Goku: 970
UI Omen Goku: 900
Blue Goku [Broly]: 830
Blue Goku [ToP]: 820
Blue Goku [Zamasu]: 810
FPSS Broly: 960
SS Broly: 850
Iraki Broly: 800
Jiren [LB]: 970
Jiren: 950
Champa: 990
GoD Toppo: 890
Toppo: 820
SS2 Kefla: 870
SS Kefla: 850
Kefla: 800
Hit [ToP]: 830
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo]: 900
SSBE Vegeta: 880
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]: 930
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]: 910
SSI FT Trunks: 800
Corruped Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]: 940
Corrupted Merged Zamasu: 930
Merged Zamasu: 900
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]: 810
17 [ToP]: 810
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]: 810
Golden Freeza: 820
Aniraza: 860

[Thani]

Well, if we're using numbers, then I would go, in a conservative way, following the example above:

Grand Priest: ????? (Never fought, so no way to know. He's still one of, if not the, the Top 5 warriors in the multiverse)
Whis: 1500
Merus: 1300~1400
Moro [7.3]: 1000~1100
Blue Gogeta [Broly]: 1100~1300
UI Goku: 1200
Beerus: 1000
Champa: 999
Average GoD Range: 950~1050
Ui Omen Goku [Moro]: 980
UI Omen Goku [3rd time]: 950
UI Omen Goku [2nd time]: 900
UI Omen Goku [1st time]: 850
Blue Goku [Broly]: 600
Blue Goku [ToP]:590
Blue Goku [Zamasu]: 580
FPSS Broly: 1050
SS Broly: 800
Iraki Broly: 590
Jiren [LB]: 1200~1300
Jiren: 1000+
GoD Toppo: 880
Toppo: 600
"SS2" Kefla: 900
"SS" Kefla: 800
Kefla: 500
Hit [ToP]: 550
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo ~ Final Explosion]: 880~900
SSBE Vegeta: 700
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]: 900~1100
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]: ??? (Irrelevant, it was the Genki Dama in the sword that delivered the final blow anyway)
SSI FT Trunks: 500
Corruped Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]: 900
Corrupted Merged Zamasu: 880
Merged Zamasu: 800
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]: 600
17 [ToP]: 400
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]: 400
Aniraza: 850

[Grand Marshal 1]

So it's been over 2 years since Super ended and I wanted to see how everyone thinks about these so let's see, If Beerus is 1000, how would you score these characters?

Grand Priest: massively above Angels
Whis: 10,000
Blue Gogeta [Broly]: 1,950
UI Goku: 1,950
UI Omen Goku [3rd time]: 1,040
UI Omen Goku [2nd time]: 650
UI Omen Goku [1st time]: 390
Blue Goku [Broly]: 13
Blue Goku [ToP]: 12
Blue Goku [Zamasu]: 7.5
FPSS Broly: 975
SS Broly: 78
Iraki Broly: 12
Jiren [LB]: 1,820
Jiren: 1,300
Champa: 999 (as the guys said lol)
GoD Toppo: 455
Toppo: 12
SS2 Kefla: 140 (normal), 390 (Overloaded)
SS Kefla: 70
Kefla: 1,4 (somewhat above SSG)
Hit [ToP]: 12 (Base), 240 (time cage)
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo]: 520
SSBE Vegeta: 260
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]: 325
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]: 65-70
SSI FT Trunks: 11
Corruped Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]: 70-80
Corrupted Merged Zamasu: 50
Merged Zamasu: 25
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]: 11
17 [ToP]: <11
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]: <11
Aniraza: 70
TGolden Freeza [ToP]: 12
TGolden Freeza [Broly]: 12.1

Prime Moro (manga ik, but I wanted to translate his threat into the anime): 1,430
7-Moro-3: 1,820+

Some extras cause I love scales:

GGA Ultra Pinich: 1,500
Ultimate Godslayer Hearts: 2,250
Dark King Mechikaboola: 2,250
SS3 FP Cumber: 1,100
XVegito SS4: 1,950
XGogeta SS4 KK: 3,900
Vegito Blue KK (Post-ToP): 3,900
Neo-Merged Zamasu: 400
Ultimate Kamioren: 650
Kamioren: 14
Dark Janemba: 50-60
SS4 XGoku/XVegeta: 12
-Super Full Power: 36
-Limit Breaker: 120
SSG XTrunks: 10 (normal),
Demigra (Makyuka): 120
Makyuka XOmega: 100
Ultimate Fin: 150

[Koitsukai]

Grand Priest: +10,000
Whis: 5,000
Merus: 2,500

UI Goku (Moro): 1,500 (based on Merus' final words but who knows)
Blue Gogeta [Broly]: 1,200
UI Goku [ToP]: 1,200
Jiren [LB]: 1,199
Moro(7-3) 1,150
FPSS Broly: 1,050
Jiren: 1,030

Beerus: 1,000

SSBE Vegeta (Moro): 995
UI Omen Goku (4th time): 990
Champa: 990
UI Omen Goku [3rd time]: 985
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo]: 970
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]: 960
SS Broly: 955
UI Omen Goku [2nd time]: 950
GoD Toppo: 950
SS2 Kefla: 935

UI Omen Goku [1st time]: 930
SS Kefla: 900
Corruped Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]: 900
Corrupted Merged Zamasu: 880
Merged Zamasu: 850

SSBE Vegeta: 850
Blue Goku [Broly]: 850
Ikari Broly: 840
Blue Goku [ToP]: 830
Toppo: 830
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]: 810
Blue Goku [Zamasu]: 800

Aniraza: 790
Kefla: 770
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]: 770
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]: 770 + hax power
SSI FT Trunks: 770
17 [ToP]: 750
Hit [ToP]: 500

[ZombieVito]

Thanks guys.

So none of you think Goku grew multiple times stronger in the ToP or that 17 and Gohan are stronger than Black. Interesting stuff.

Some have Vegetto and Zamasu way higher than I thought. There's also no clear consensus on who is stronger between Kefla or GoD Toppo.

I would love a Daizenshuu for Super haha.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Thanks guys.

So none of you think Goku grew multiple times stronger in the ToP or that 17 and Gohan are stronger than Black. Interesting stuff.

Some have Vegetto and Zamasu way higher than I thought. There's also no clear consensus on who is stronger between Kefla or GoD Toppo.

I would love a Daizenshuu for Super haha.

Black has undeniable skill and strength. He most probably takes out every single blue tier even by Moro arc just because his fighting style and abilities will allow for him to grow in said fights.

17 and Gohan have nowhere near comparable feats as Enraged Black to defeat him. Tearing a time-space rift from a single attack and forming replaceable clones that can stall quake of fury blue Goku and Vegeta is hax on its own.

[dbgtFO]

So it's been over 2 years since Super ended and I wanted to see how everyone thinks about these so let's see, If Beerus is 1000, how would you score these characters?

Sure, my quick take. So many considerations to make, I don't miss making power level lists out of this mess

Grand Priest: 10,000
Whis: 5,000

SSB Gogeta [Broly]: 1,500.

UI Goku: 1,250.
FPSS Broly: 1,150.
Jiren [LB]: 1,050.
SSB Vegetto [Zamasu]: 1,000.

Jiren: 950.
Belmod: 920.
Champa: 900.
UIO Goku [3rd time]: 900.
Corrupted Merged Zamasu [Power Stressed]: 900.

Corrupted Merged Zamasu: 800.
SSBE Vegeta [Enraged vs Toppo]: 800.
UIO Goku [2nd time]: 750.
GoD Toppo: 750.
SS2 Kefla: 700.
UIO Goku [1st time]: 600.
SSBE Vegeta: 500.

SS Gogeta[Broly]: 300.
SS Broly: 230.
SSI FT Trunks [Genki Sword]: 150.
SS Kefla: 140.

Aniraza: 50.
Merged Zamasu: 45.

SSB Goku [Broly]: 30.
SSR Goku Black [Scythe]: 25.
SSB Goku [ToP]: 25.
Ikari Broly: 23.
SSB Goku [Zamasu]: 20.

Hit [ToP]: 18.
SSI FT Trunks: 15.
17 [ToP]: 15.
Ultimate Gohan [ToP]: 15.
Kefla: 14.
SSG Goku [ToP]: 12.5.
SS2 Kale: 10.

[Dragon Wukong]

I'm surprised less people think Vegito Blue was above Beerus in the FT arc.

It feels obvious to me that would be the case, given Whis' statement in Resurrection F about Goku and Vegeta working together against Beerus, as well as Gogeta's extravagant performance against someone above even Beerus' caliber. Even not counting the manga, I've just never found it believable Beerus would be stronger than fusion between two Super Saiyan Blues.

[SupremeKai25]

The Grand Priest is so overwhelmingly powerful compared to the rest but he might not even be the strongest in the verse. It was stated in the anime that he was amongst the top 5 fighters in the multiverse, not necessarily the top fighter, and frankly I have no idea who else might be in the top 5... but honestly the fact that there are people out there who rival the Grand Priest is somewhat crazy. Maybe Moro is one of them? Idk. Some people think Zeno's guards are also amongst the top 5, but they don't have any feats do they?

[Skar]

The Grand Priest is so overwhelmingly powerful compared to the rest but he might not even be the strongest in the verse. It was stated in the anime that he was amongst the top 5 fighters in the multiverse, not necessarily the top fighter, and frankly I have no idea who else might be in the top 5... but honestly the fact that there are people out there who rival the Grand Priest is somewhat crazy. Maybe Moro is one of them? Idk. Some people think Zeno's guards are also amongst the top 5, but they don't have any feats do they?

Was the line about the Grand Priest being in the top 5 also in the manga? It could be that Toei included it because they weren't sure how strong he was intended to be at the time compared to Zeno's guards and Zalama. We know Zeno is the strongest but not in what order those three and GP would rank. These are the only beings I could of that could surpass GP since he's so far above the Angels and strongest mortals.

[SupremeKai25]

The Grand Priest is so overwhelmingly powerful compared to the rest but he might not even be the strongest in the verse. It was stated in the anime that he was amongst the top 5 fighters in the multiverse, not necessarily the top fighter, and frankly I have no idea who else might be in the top 5... but honestly the fact that there are people out there who rival the Grand Priest is somewhat crazy. Maybe Moro is one of them? Idk. Some people think Zeno's guards are also amongst the top 5, but they don't have any feats do they?

Was the line about the Grand Priest being in the top 5 also in the manga? It could be that Toei included it because they weren't sure how strong he was intended to be at the time compared to Zeno's guards and Zalama. We know Zeno is the strongest but not in what order those three and GP would rank. These are the only beings I could of that could surpass GP since he's so far above the Angels and strongest mortals.

Zeno is not a fighter, he just has an op hax. In the ToP arc he couldn't even follow Dyspo's movements, so he can't be included in that statement. In the manga the Grand Priest is straight up stated to be the number 1 fighter in the cosmos, at least according to the wikia (I had to check it because I haven't read the ToP manga).

[Magnificent Ponta]

Whis says in Chapter 18 that "The Grand Priest, as far as I know, is the mightiest of all beings in the Universe".

Which (qualifications on the extent of Whis's knowledge aside) seems pretty definitive.