"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DiscountDabi]

Alright, I’m willing to accept that. It still makes him feel far less intimidating but what still bothers me is that at the End of the Goku vs Moro fight, Moro goes to absorb Goku’s energy. But instead of just grabbing his neck and pulling it out like he did in chapter 46 (back when he didn’t even have his full magic power either) he stands over him and starts slowly sucking it out of him giving 17 and 18 time to distract him.

[Miracles]

When Moro raises his hand above his head he starts to absorb energy [Ch.45, 49, 50 and 60].
For example, UI Omen Goku looked out for that sign, used super speed to avoid it.

However, in chapter 45, Goku noticed something is wrong before Moro raised his hand up to implement the technique.
I think this is where people get the idea that Moro can subtlety drain his prey. Still, shortly after that we see Moro's hand raised to actually eat the energy. The chapter's intent was more about Goku and Vegeta's lack of knowledge about the absorption than anything.

I agree with this, but in fairness to Chapter 45 (and to be more specific about the point you mention about it seeming more subtle), it goes out of its way to explain that Moro's planet energy attack steals the power from his targets to use it as well.

At the beginning of the chapter, we get this exchange:

Goku: We heard about how you can absorb life energy. Just like how you tried with that Namekian kid a minute ago.
Moro: Ohh...you're not entirely ignorant then...This will be the same technique but a different application.

Then he uses the planet energy attack and says "With this move, I attack with the life energy of the very planet we stand on", and later specifies that he can use it "until the planet itself is extinguished". And later, after Goku's noticed that something weird is going on and when Vegeta's lost too much energy to transform, Moro specifies further again when he says "You were already aware that my magic robs a planet of its life energy, weren't you? Naturally, that included a healthy portion of your energy as well."

So every time Moro used the planet energy attack, he was taking their power (along with the rest of the planet's) to make it run, which was already draining their energy from the moment he first used it - and the identification with ki absorption is even stronger when Vegeta recognises the 'raised hand' version of it as the same technique, and says it won't do any good against him (since he's expecting Moro to attack with it, rather than eat it).

So the chapter's very clear about how Moro does this stuff - though I can see how people may have missed it or failed to note the identification of the techniques, none of it's really hidden, and none of it's really different from the times he uses it later.

Amen.

[EGonzo]

Maybe because it Namek his power was like an "evil" Spirit Bomb, he raised his hands and everything lost its energy. He didn't point to every Namekian individually to steal their energy. Even when Seven-Three copied the power he just raised his hands. Then on Earth Moro, for some reason, needs to target when he wants to absorb energy.

Not everything loses its power even on Namek, unless Moro wants them to do so - in Chapter 50 (still on Namek) he very deliberately omits his goons and targets the heroes to take power from when he uses the move.

And OG73-I did the 'raise hands and energy is lost' thing when using Moro's powers on Earth in #54, and he also specifically targets what he's doing - he specifies he's only drawing power from Gohan, Piccolo, Kuririn and Jaco, rather than from anyone else on Earth, so it clearly hasn't been forgotten. Moro can be selective or plenary with what he does, and shows he's able to target specific individuals at all points when we see him.

Nothing's changed, except what Goku can do to avoid it, which is immeasurably enhanced by being able to use Omen at will.

I just read the chapters and you're completely right. In every use after the first, they mention he's specifically targeting who he drains.
It could be he didn't properly introduced the power the first time and did a poor job of explaining it later, but the way he's handled this arc makes me think Toyo just retconned the ability to better suit the story

[Magnificent Ponta]

It could be he didn't properly introduced the power the first time and did a poor job of explaining it later, but the way he's handled this arc makes me think Toyo just retconned the ability to better suit the story

Really, I think what's at the heart of it is that in making the dramatic 'hook' for the end of Chapter 45, the full picture of what Moro was doing was deferred, and that has led to some confusion from people. I don't think there's been a retcon or an improper introduction of Moro's abilities: I just think that deferring the full reveal for dramatic effect has led people to miss what he's been doing from the outset.

Also, to be fair to all concerned, Chapter 45 was a really long time ago by now.

what still bothers me is that at the End of the Goku vs Moro fight, Moro goes to absorb Goku’s energy. But instead of just grabbing his neck and pulling it out like he did in chapter 46 (back when he didn’t even have his full magic power either) he stands over him and starts slowly sucking it out of him giving 17 and 18 time to distract him.

Well, it certainly is "convenient" for the heroes, but in that sense I guess it's similar to, say, Cell messing about with #17 long enough for #16 to saunter up and punch him in the face; or #19 slowly draining Goku long enough for Vegeta to kick him away; or #20 doing the same to Piccolo long enough for Gohan to show up and whack him; or Freeza bothering to say a snappy dismissal to Goku instead of just shooting him in the face, thus allowing Piccolo the time to show up and kick him away. Dragon Ball has lots of convenient dramatic delays like this.

But on the other hand, by this point in the story Moro has no serious opposition on Earth that can harm him, so he can afford to take his time and enjoy his meal, I guess. To me, it really doesn't add up to much, but if it bothers you, it bothers you.

[Jiren The Alpha]

I miss goat Moro, hes old design was more memorable, i feel like toyotaro chance his design because he didn't thing that Moro look like a final boss.

[LoganForkHands73]

I miss goat Moro, hes old design was more memorable, i feel like toyotaro chance his design because he didn't thing that Moro look like a final boss.

I think it's purely because A) Toyo clearly has a fondness for Hit-esque designs B) Maybe he just started to find Moro hard to draw? He's said he finds it difficult to draw characters without references, and of course Moro (was) a totally original, atypical and fairly elaborate design for Dragon Ball, he was probably looking for any excuse to change it. Moro growing youthful was the first step.

[EGonzo]

I miss goat Moro, hes old design was more memorable, i feel like toyotaro chance his design because he didn't thing that Moro look like a final boss.

I think it's purely because A) Toyo clearly has a fondness for Hit-esque designs B) Maybe he just started to find Moro hard to draw? He's said he finds it difficult to draw characters without references, and of course Moro (was) a totally original, atypical and fairly elaborate design for Dragon Ball, he was probably looking for any excuse to change it. Moro growing youthful was the first step.

A is probably what happened, and I can't really blame him. I just wished he'd kept at it the way Toriyama kept drawing Super Saiyan 3 throughout the Buu arc (though I admit it didn't show as often as Moro)

[Magnificent Ponta]

Toyotarou's gone on record saying that Moro's original twisted goat (but not really goat) horns are a real pain to draw, so his OG73-I version's horns are, unsurprisingly, slightly simpler.

[Xeogran]

OK, to make things more fun, here are my predictions for the chapter:

Goku turns MUI early on (because prolonging the obvious would be detrimental and Omen cant do anything to Moro)
-Vegeta wakes up and wants to get his payback
-Goku punches Moro around now
-By coincidence Moro lands in the direction Krillin is coming from, takes his Senzu and recovers himself including the crystals (more Cell arc references yay)
-Moro takes Jaco as a hostage
-Vegeta arrives, saves Jaco and teams up with MUI Goku for a cliffhanger

Maybe I'm expecting too much..

[Alruneia]

OK, to make things more fun, here are my predictions for the chapter:

Goku turns MUI early on (because prolonging the obvious would be detrimental and Omen cant do anything to Moro)
-Vegeta wakes up and wants to get his payback
-Goku punches Moro around now
-By coincidence Moro lands in the direction Krillin is coming from, takes his Senzu and recovers himself including the crystals (more Cell arc references yay)
-Moro takes Jaco as a hostage
-Vegeta arrives, saves Jaco and teams up with MUI Goku for a cliffhanger

Maybe I'm expecting too much..

Maybe, but to me it kinda seems like people are generally expecting too little from this chapter. I do think your list of moments is a bit too long for just one chapter, the Moro arc's pacing is a bit too slow for it all, but it's a much better list than "UI Goku fights Moro and wins, the end".
I don't personally have any concrete predictions, only that UI Goku will make Moro look like a clown for most of the chapter, but at the same time, either Moro is going to be able to set up some kind of countermeasure or Goku's UI will (begin to) run out, and the chapter will end with victory in reach, "but..."

[LoganForkHands73]

Toyotarou's gone on record saying that Moro's original twisted goat (but not really goat) horns are a real pain to draw, so his OG73-I version's horns are, unsurprisingly, slightly simpler.

"Maybe moro will undergo some kind of transformation so Toyotaro can redesign his horns."

Top comment's first reply. Clairvoyant.

[Jack Bz]

I'm thinking there's going to be some shenanigans with Moro's hand that Merus cut off being able to grab Goku's neck and copy UI somehow. That's the only reason I can think of for Vegeta having to be involved which I think probably will happen as he's being healed by Dende currently.

Even if the chapter is a simple Goku beat down of Moro, I'll be pleased if it has excellent choreography. I think Merus fighting Moro with the staff is a highlight of the whole manga for me, I just want UI to have real creative fighting choreography like that, really make it feel like Goku isn't just stronger but a better fighter. I thought he did a pretty good job with Goku vs Jiren, that unusual backwards kick he does towards the end etc.

[DiscountDabi]

Toyotarou's gone on record saying that Moro's original twisted goat (but not really goat) horns are a real pain to draw, so his OG73-I version's horns are, unsurprisingly, slightly simpler.

"Maybe moro will undergo some kind of transformation so Toyotaro can redesign his horns."

Top comment's first reply. Clairvoyant.

If it was just the horns he could have just had Moro’s horns uncurl the younger he got. Thats what makes me thing it was the goat ascetic entirely that he found hard to draw. Either that or he really is just a fan of Hit Eske faces.

Edit: Just for my own Curiosity, Can Anyone who’s Able Edit Young Moro with his Moro73 horns. I’m just curious as to how it would look.

[Tai Lung]

If it was just the horns he could have just had Moro’s horns uncurl the younger he got. Thats what makes me thing it was the goat ascetic entirely that he found hard to draw. Either that or he really is just a fan of Hit Eske faces.

maybe



toyotaro design it

[Gt91]

OK, to make things more fun, here are my predictions for the chapter:

Goku turns MUI early on (because prolonging the obvious would be detrimental and Omen cant do anything to Moro)
-Vegeta wakes up and wants to get his payback
-Goku punches Moro around now
-By coincidence Moro lands in the direction Krillin is coming from, takes his Senzu and recovers himself including the crystals (more Cell arc references yay)
-Moro takes Jaco as a hostage
-Vegeta arrives, saves Jaco and teams up with MUI Goku for a cliffhanger

Maybe I'm expecting too much..

These are not bad ideas at all. Moro is really evil, so let's expect everything.
My hopes are always on vegeta. Fingers crossed until the end!
I'm curious about beerus and whis as well.

[Trouser]

Edit: Just for my own Curiosity, Can Anyone who’s Able Edit Young Moro with his Moro73 horns. I’m just curious as to how it would look.

Without and with 73's crystal and Moro73 for comparison:

[DiscountDabi]

Edit: Just for my own Curiosity, Can Anyone who’s Able Edit Young Moro with his Moro73 horns. I’m just curious as to how it would look.

Without and with 73's crystal and Moro73 for comparison:

I’m gonna be honest, this doesn’t look bad. I almost prefer it to the design we got. I thought the horns would look out of place with his goat head but it honestly looks really good

[OLKv3]

Rereading the beginning of the arc, and Moro was so much better on Namek. His fight with Vegeta, his planet magic, surrounding Namekians with planet energy and throwing them into it, it was much better than the brute that is now on Earth. Hope he brings it back for the final fight

[GodVegetto91]

I hope MUI Goku beats Moro fair and square. No tricks, no complications, no outside help, no plot twists, nothing! Just MUI Goku straight up OVERPOWERING and finally KILLING Moro.

I know I wanted Vegeta to win ever since this Arc began and he went to Planet Yardrat, but since Goku has now fully mastered UI (A “Peerless” Unbeatable state) as defined by 2 Angels (Whis and Merus), it would make zero sense for Goku to not do anything less to Moro than toy with him and finish him off whenever he feels like it. Ultra Instinct NEEDS to live up to its reputation!

[Xeogran]

I hope MUI Goku beats Moro fair and square. No tricks, no complications, no outside help, no plot twists, nothing! Just MUI Goku straight up OVERPOWERING and finally KILLING Moro.

It's already unfair seeing how Moro got weakened by a literal Angel.
His regeneration wasn't even that OP considering it was only Piccolo-tier and not Buu, should have been left intact.