Dragon Ball Z 4:3 Steelbooks

[eledoremassis02]

The cropping is fine for this set besides the first episode or so. The colors aren't great. But what really makes it unwatchable is the filter they used which makes the lines smeary and gives everything an artificially razor sharp look. Anyone who hated that look on the Season Blu-rays instantly saw that something was very wrong when the first trailer for this dropped.

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/910CJNNU

I get that the source material isn't always sharp, but the lines shouldn't be turning into fat smeary blobs. Some people don't notice this or even mind it, but I can't stand watching anything with this sort of filter. People talk about "DNR" and "cropping" a lot, but this right here is the real deal breaker for me.

I owned the season one Blu-ray and sold it because it was jarring. The 30th set hasn't bothered me so much because while it's still filtered it's not zoomed in which enhanced the problem. I in the middle on this, I can see why people don't like it and why some do. It's not the Level sets but the 4:3 does help mask some of the problems a little. Like, if I watch these on my laptop on my lap I notice the DNR big time, but even about a foot away or 6ft on my TV they look more than fine, atleast to me.

A good example is the clouds they were very distracting on the 16:9 because all they did was dance (grain motion) on the 4:3 it's still there but very very small because the issue wasnt blown up.

[VanceRefrigeration]

I owned the season one Blu-ray and sold it because it was jarring. The 30th set hasn't bothered me so much because while it's still filtered it's not zoomed in which enhanced the problem. I in the middle on this, I can see why people don't like it and why some do. It's not the Level sets but the 4:3 does help mask some of the problems a little. Like, if I watch these on my laptop on my lap I notice the DNR big time, but even about a foot away or 6ft on my TV they look more than fine, atleast to me.

A good example is the clouds they were very distracting on the 16:9 because all they did was dance (grain motion) on the 4:3 it's still there but very very small because the issue wasnt blown up.

I'm sure the problem is somewhat reduced because it's less zoomed in. But for me, the most distracting are things that are right in the foreground. Any time a character's face is shown, my eyes immediately go towards those razor sharp edges between the different shades of the lighting:

Spoiler:

My brain just can't accept that as looking natural whether it's on the 16:9 sets or on these less-zoomed sets.

[Robo4900]

I've gained some much-needed perspective on this, and ultimately, this is what I think:

We can't expect Funimation to release an actually-good version of the show any time soon. We overwhelmed their Twitter, etc. with demands of better, and we've been complaining about this since 2008, but they haven't budged an inch, and they aren't going to.
Anyone who's still clinging onto hope for an actually-good release of DBZ from Funimation is simply kidding themselves.

So, within that, these are currently a version that's perfectly okay to recommend to newcomers, and anyone who wants to get back into the show after years away from it. Kai is probably a better recommendation for dub-viewers and for the better video quality (though this line blurs a lot when we get to TFC), but either way, OG DB's Blue Bricks are okay, so there's now an okay-for-casuals route to owning DB+Z.

For hardcore fans, there's more advanced routes; importing the Dragon Box singles and buying the Orange Bricks, then using Dragon Radar, for instance. But, for now, there's a simple "It's a bit shitty looking, but you can buy it this way" recommendation.

So, much as it still annoys me that Funi is simply unable to release DBZ properly, I'm glad they've at least made the 4:3 version mass market. (Yes, I know it's allegedly a limited release, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts these stay in print and/or are replaced with a non-steelbook version)

[JustAlex1997]

While it'd be nice to get Dragon Box blurays at a reasonable price, I've never understood the claims that any of the DBZ remasters are "unwatchable." Sure, they aren't 1:1 representative of what you'd have seen on a TV screen in Japan back in the 90s, but having the vibrancy of the colors increased and cropping out a bit of the edge of the shot hardly make it "unwatchable." You can still follow the story, the images are still framed in a way that you can tell what you're looking at (the worst that seems to be cropped out is the occasional arm or top of a head).

It makes me wonder how some of you older fans ever managed to cope back when VHS and DVD releases had Widescreen and Fullscreen versions available. Like, if your parents had gotten you Batman or Star Wars in Fullscreen instead of Widescreen, did you or would you have thrown a fit?

All that said, I'm definitely picking these up solely on the basis that they're steelbooks (and I collect both steelbooks and DBZ media, so this is a slam dunk regardless of whether it was an Orange Box re-release) and I HIGHLY doubt Funimation is ever going to release another set of seasonal steelbooks, especially if this run fails to sell well.

I care about art preservation. Not only do I like to see movies, shows, video games, etc. remain available for future generations, but I also like to see them available as faithfully as possible. The picture is so bad on the first two Orange Bricks in particular (blurry in the first season, bleached in the second) that I always get distracted by it. And even on the "good" seasons, the picture is so cropped that characters can end up getting decapitated (and even when it isn't that extreme, nothing is framed properly). It's easy to be okay with something if your standards stop at, "can I still see what's happening?"

I, and many others here, have higher standards than the average consumer. I'm not okay with something being made worse just because it still functions as intended. I can still watch the Orange Bricks, but that doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience. I'm only fine with this new remaster as the downgrade is nowhere near as noticeable.

[Planetnamek]

While it'd be nice to get Dragon Box blurays at a reasonable price, I've never understood the claims that any of the DBZ remasters are "unwatchable." Sure, they aren't 1:1 representative of what you'd have seen on a TV screen in Japan back in the 90s, but having the vibrancy of the colors increased and cropping out a bit of the edge of the shot hardly make it "unwatchable." You can still follow the story, the images are still framed in a way that you can tell what you're looking at (the worst that seems to be cropped out is the occasional arm or top of a head).

It makes me wonder how some of you older fans ever managed to cope back when VHS and DVD releases had Widescreen and Fullscreen versions available. Like, if your parents had gotten you Batman or Star Wars in Fullscreen instead of Widescreen, did you or would you have thrown a fit?

All that said, I'm definitely picking these up solely on the basis that they're steelbooks (and I collect both steelbooks and DBZ media, so this is a slam dunk regardless of whether it was an Orange Box re-release) and I HIGHLY doubt Funimation is ever going to release another set of seasonal steelbooks, especially if this run fails to sell well.

I care about art preservation. Not only do I like to see movies, shows, video games, etc. remain available for future generations, but I also like to see them available as faithfully as possible. The picture is so bad on the first two Orange Bricks in particular (blurry in the first season, bleached in the second) that I always get distracted by it. And even on the "good" seasons, the picture is so cropped that characters can end up getting decapitated (and even when it isn't that extreme, nothing is framed properly). It's easy to be okay with something if your standards stop at, "can I still see what's happening?"

I, and many others here, have higher standards than the average consumer. I'm not okay with something being made worse just because it still functions as intended. I can still watch the Orange Bricks, but that doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience. I'm only fine with this new remaster as the downgrade is nowhere near as noticeable.

Agreed, there's ZERO excuse for one of the most popular franchises of all time continuing to get such poor treatment in terms of home video releases. Looney Tunes also had issues with fake widescreen in later DVD releases but like Funimation, Warner Bros ignored the many complaints people had about those releases and refused to fix them.

[eledoremassis02]

I'm collecting the Ultimate Uncuts right now and I'm actually madder they dropped the Ultimate Uncut line. Everything from having the Spanish dub to the metallic ink and ink print quality on the disc really did ad some value to them. The only thing that would have made them better value (besides the dated model of the singles) would have been to add 6 episodes per disc via duel layer.

At this point I'd take them making their own "Dragon Box" with their own masters on DVD with the specials, maybe the movies too and call it day. I don't really have any issues with Dragon Ball being in SD as that was literally how it was meant to be seen. Same reason why I got Batman 66 on DVD (besides the cheaper price point) and they're still higher quality than their original run.

I have the 30th set, and I'm not gonna upgrade unless there is an improvement. (outside season 1 steel if I can get it he cost down to 0)

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I'm collecting the Ultimate Uncuts right now and I'm actually madder they dropped the Ultimate Uncut line. Everything from having the Spanish dub to the metallic ink and ink print quality on the disc really did ad some value to them. The only thing that would have made them better value (besides the dated model of the singles) would have been to add 6 episodes per disc via duel layer.

At this point I'd take them making their own "Dragon Box" with their own masters on DVD with the specials, maybe the movies too and call it day. I don't really have any issues with Dragon Ball being in SD as that was literally how it was meant to be seen. Same reason why I got Batman 66 on DVD (besides the cheaper price point) and they're still higher quality than their original run.

I have the 30th set, and I'm not gonna upgrade unless there is an improvement. (outside season 1 steel if I can get it he cost down to 0)

Same, i have the FUNi Dragon Boxes and thus there's really no reason for me to upgrade either. Now if this remaster were more like the Level sets...then it would be a different story.

[Zeon_Grunt]

It makes me wonder how some of you older fans ever managed to cope back when VHS and DVD releases had Widescreen and Fullscreen versions available. Like, if your parents had gotten you Batman or Star Wars in Fullscreen instead of Widescreen, did you or would you have thrown a fit?

Except DBZ was created in 4:3 whereas 99% of "full screen" dvd's are pan and scan or cropped.

And this new set seems to be a crop of a crop so idk wtf FUNimation is even doing anymore.

It's literally the reverse situation here, where they took a Fullscreen show, cropped it to Widescreen and added the pan and scan and cropping that Fullscreen DVDs/VHSs had back in the day. Editing for format isn't a new thing, and it was hardly makes anything "unviewable/unwatchable" compared to the unedited versions.

I care about art preservation.

I guess that's the main distinction that I don't get; I don't view TV shows as works of art, just products meant to make money. You'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who will argue that, say, Hot in Cleveland or Family Guy is a work of art that need to be preserved forever and not just another TV show, regardless of how popular it may have been at the time. That said, it's one thing to maintain that the quality is slightly less, and another thing to argue for years that something is "unwatchable" because a few inches of the side of the shot have been cropped out or the colors don't look as flat and grainy as they did with the original broadcast.

Aside from that, standards change over time. Just because we were ok with square pictures back when we had SD TVs and some people are still ok with that, doesn't mean most people are ok with watching a show that has huge black bars on both sides of the image, effectively not using a 4th (or more) of your screen's overall size and pixel count. Outside straight up redrawing the whole series, I've yet to see any suggestions for how to convert SD content to HD displays in a way that doesn't warp/stretch the image or present the viewer with those huge, unwanted black bars. A couple inches off the sides of a frame is generally considered an acceptable compromise to fully utilize the entire TV screen.

[Robo4900]

I'm collecting the Ultimate Uncuts right now and I'm actually madder they dropped the Ultimate Uncut line. Everything from having the Spanish dub to the metallic ink and ink print quality on the disc really did ad some value to them. The only thing that would have made them better value (besides the dated model of the singles) would have been to add 6 episodes per disc via duel layer.

Personally, I think the Ultimate Uncuts should have been two-disc and dual-layer; 12 episodes per volume. I think that would have sold a lot better.

Then they basically just re-press the old DVDs but aligned to uncut footage properly for episodes 68-72 in volume 6, and throw in two bonus episodes, taking us up to the end of the Ginyu Saga, with episode 74. Then release "Season" box sets using the same discs, plus new pressings of the discs from the Freeza saga onwards, but with the episodes renumbered in the menus to match uncut.

[VanceRefrigeration]

Like it or not, even television shows are works of art. Shots are specifically framed by the directors to have a certain impact on the viewer. So yeah, when shots created for a 4:3 framing are haphazardly chopped up into 16:9, then it just looks cramped. How unwatchable that is depends on the viewer and what their own standards are. But I've yet to see any evidence that "most people" are bothered by black bars. I've got old relatives who are very much not "in the know" about these things, and they watch older 4:3 content on their newer 16:9 televisions without any complaint about black bars whatsoever. I know that's anecdotal, but I think there are a lot of assumptions made about "most people". Personally, I think most people just don't care either way.

Thankfully, the companies releasing Dragon Ball today seem to agree. Funimation is now releasing DBZ in 4:3 again and even Toei's new TV special remasters were in 4:3. For those who do happen to dislike the black bars, there thankfully exists a zoom button on their remotes. Yes obviously zooming won't get the same quality as an actual 16:9 presentation on the disc, but my assumption is that the people who don't care about watching the show as intended also don't care that much about quality.

[eledoremassis02]

I'm collecting the Ultimate Uncuts right now and I'm actually madder they dropped the Ultimate Uncut line. Everything from having the Spanish dub to the metallic ink and ink print quality on the disc really did ad some value to them. The only thing that would have made them better value (besides the dated model of the singles) would have been to add 6 episodes per disc via duel layer.

Personally, I think the Ultimate Uncuts should have been two-disc and dual-layer; 12 episodes per volume. I think that would have sold a lot better.

Then they basically just re-press the old DVDs but aligned to uncut footage properly for episodes 68-72 in volume 6, and throw in two bonus episodes, taking us up to the end of the Ginyu Saga, with episode 74. Then release "Season" box sets using the same discs, plus new pressings of the discs from the Freeza saga onwards, but with the episodes renumbered in the menus to match uncut.

That would have been much better, I think. Do you or anyone else know if they planned to re-release the Ginyu-Buu in the UUC style?

Like it or not, even television shows are works of art. Shots are specifically framed by the directors to have a certain impact on the viewer. So yeah, when shots created for a 4:3 framing are haphazardly chopped up into 16:9, then it just looks cramped. How unwatchable that is depends on the viewer and what their own standards are. But I've yet to see any evidence that "most people" are bothered by black bars. I've got old relatives who are very much not "in the know" about these things, and they watch older 4:3 content on their newer 16:9 televisions without any complaint about black bars whatsoever. I know that's anecdotal, but I think there are a lot of assumptions made about "most people". Personally, I think most people just don't care either way.

Thankfully, the companies releasing Dragon Ball today seem to agree. Funimation is now releasing DBZ in 4:3 again and even Toei's new TV special remasters were in 4:3. For those who do happen to dislike the black bars, there thankfully exists a zoom button on their remotes. Yes obviously zooming won't get the same quality as an actual 16:9 presentation on the disc, but my assumption is that the people who don't care about watching the show as intended also don't care that much about quality.

I think its perpetuated by the dated ideas of VHS. Heck, some movies get zoomed in that are 2.40:1 to fill in the screens on a lot of TV airings.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I'm collecting the Ultimate Uncuts right now and I'm actually madder they dropped the Ultimate Uncut line. Everything from having the Spanish dub to the metallic ink and ink print quality on the disc really did ad some value to them. The only thing that would have made them better value (besides the dated model of the singles) would have been to add 6 episodes per disc via duel layer.

Personally, I think the Ultimate Uncuts should have been two-disc and dual-layer; 12 episodes per volume. I think that would have sold a lot better.

Then they basically just re-press the old DVDs but aligned to uncut footage properly for episodes 68-72 in volume 6, and throw in two bonus episodes, taking us up to the end of the Ginyu Saga, with episode 74. Then release "Season" box sets using the same discs, plus new pressings of the discs from the Freeza saga onwards, but with the episodes renumbered in the menus to match uncut.

Definitely, two discs per volume more along the lines of the Saga sets of OG DB i feel would have been a better style of release for the UUE at the time. The single three to four episode per disc format as they had been doing for six or seven years prior was clearly outdated by that point in 2005.

[JustAlex1997]

I guess that's the main distinction that I don't get; I don't view TV shows as works of art, just products meant to make money. You'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who will argue that, say, Hot in Cleveland or Family Guy is a work of art that need to be preserved forever and not just another TV show, regardless of how popular it may have been at the time. That said, it's one thing to maintain that the quality is slightly less, and another thing to argue for years that something is "unwatchable" because a few inches of the side of the shot have been cropped out or the colors don't look as flat and grainy as they did with the original broadcast.

Aside from that, standards change over time. Just because we were ok with square pictures back when we had SD TVs and some people are still ok with that, doesn't mean most people are ok with watching a show that has huge black bars on both sides of the image, effectively not using a 4th (or more) of your screen's overall size and pixel count. Outside straight up redrawing the whole series, I've yet to see any suggestions for how to convert SD content to HD displays in a way that doesn't warp/stretch the image or present the viewer with those huge, unwanted black bars. A couple inches off the sides of a frame is generally considered an acceptable compromise to fully utilize the entire TV screen.

It doesn't matter if Family Guy is a soulless corporate product. It matches the definition of art, so it isn't less deserving of preservation just because it isn't on the same level of Citizen Kane. Even schlock deserves to be seen by future generations.

You downplay the problems of these remasters by saying, "it's only a bit of their arm at the side of the screen" as that only applies to the first few episodes of the 30th anniversary remaster (which you don't even seem to be referring to at all, so it comes off as you knowing very little about how the series was cropped to 16:9). 20% is missing at the top and bottom of the screen on both the Orange Bricks and 2014 Blu-rays, and the colors on the Orange Bricks in particular can be horrible.

Here's Vegeta getting decapitated from the cropping, and Gokou being as white as a ghost because of the bleached colors:




...Are you really going to tell me that corpse of a Gokou is better because he isn't, "flat and grainy"?

Oh, and resolution and aspect ratio are two completely different things. An image doesn't need to be 16:9 to be HD. And if someone really can't stand 4:3, they can stretch/crop the image with their remote instead of Funimation forcing that on all of us. Dragon Ball Z is a show from the 80's/90's, after all. If you really don't like the aspect ratio of old shows, go watch Dragon Ball Super.

[JustAlex1997]

...my assumption is that the people who don't care about watching the show as intended also don't care that much about quality.

I absolutely love this quote. Thank you.

[eledoremassis02]

The 4x3 zoom in doesn't bother me because it's still in the safety net of original intent. I know a lot of people have issues with the RTD set having been zoomed in but it's close to the what picture information you would of had on a CRT (actually a little more). I mean extra footage is nice but framing is still saved regardless.


I'd assume to say the Blue bricks would be a similar case as well.

16x9 I just see as another pan and scan for the new millennium. It carries a lot of the same issues the non-open matte VHS' used to have. The only time it didn't bother me so much was kai because that was a "newer" product and they took more time to frame than FUNi did. Kai wasn't a means to preserve the show either and I think have 1-98 available in 16x9 should be an option (4:3 buu would be nice but I know TOEI did some digital tinkering to reframe)

[Zeon_Grunt]

There's really not much of a point in arguing with any of you about the aspect ratio. It's not nearly as bad as I constantly see people crying about (often exaggerating to the point where they're claiming it's "unwatchable," which it objectively isn't), which is all my original point really was. You can claim "higher standards" until you're blue in the face, but I'm willing to bet that most of the exaggerated complaints about the DVDs and BRs just seem silly to those who don't think DB is some holy grail of entertainment that has to be preserved as it was in the 80s/90s forever.

[JustAlex1997]

There's really not much of a point in arguing with any of you about the aspect ratio. It's not nearly as bad as I constantly see people crying about (often exaggerating to the point where they're claiming it's "unwatchable," which it objectively isn't), which is all my original point really was. You can claim "higher standards" until you're blue in the face, but I'm willing to bet that most of the exaggerated complaints about the DVDs and BRs just seem silly to those who don't think DB is some holy grail of entertainment that has to be preserved as it was in the 80s/90s forever.

You're free to leave at any time. If you want to pretend the screenshots I provided aren't bad, there's nothing we can do to change your mind. I'd just like to ask you one thing before you go.

If you could choose between a bowl of soup with a hair in it and one without, why choose the former even if it doesn't ruin the soup?

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

There's really not much of a point in arguing with any of you about the aspect ratio. It's not nearly as bad as I constantly see people crying about (often exaggerating to the point where they're claiming it's "unwatchable," which it objectively isn't), which is all my original point really was. You can claim "higher standards" until you're blue in the face, but I'm willing to bet that most of the exaggerated complaints about the DVDs and BRs just seem silly to those who don't think DB is some holy grail of entertainment that has to be preserved as it was in the 80s/90s forever.

Here's the thing though, my guy. You personally might not find the issue to be as bad as other fans (especially around on this here forum) but it doesn't change the fact that DBZ was is and always will be a 4:3 show, and FUNi chopping 20%-25% off the top and bottom of the image into a fake widescreen aspect ratio to make it look more "cinematic" and whatever is a decision that shouldn't have been made when the Orange Bricks were being prepped back in 2007. Nor them DNR'ing the video into oblivion to a gross smear fest mess as seen above. That's not how the show is supposed to look, they really should do a release that presents it in the proper aspect ratio and not run through a bunch of noise reduction filters that wipes away the detail which is intended to be there.

If you see that or the bleached to hell images that JustAlex posted to not be as bad as we do, then that's fine although a lot of other fans don't see it that way.

[jjgp1112]

There's really not much of a point in arguing with any of you about the aspect ratio. It's not nearly as bad as I constantly see people crying about (often exaggerating to the point where they're claiming it's "unwatchable," which it objectively isn't), which is all my original point really was. You can claim "higher standards" until you're blue in the face, but I'm willing to bet that most of the exaggerated complaints about the DVDs and BRs just seem silly to those who don't think DB is some holy grail of entertainment that has to be preserved as it was in the 80s/90s forever.

Dawg, it's not about putting DB on a pedastal...it's about simply wanting the show to be in the format it was intended with respectable quality. That is quite literally it. An incredibly low bar to clear that Funimation just likes to limbo around anyway.

The Simpsons is hardly a visual tour de force, but its fanbase was also angry about the show being cropped on Disney+ before it was fixed. Because they chopped off footage at the top and presented it in a format that the animation wasn't framed for, resulting in many severed heads and many visual jokes being obscured.

It's just about presenting the footage how it should. Dassit. All Funimation really had to do was just present the original prints they have as is, in 4:3, with no DVNR and radical color correction, and the only people who would bitch are the ones who scream "FILL MY SCREEN" and don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[VanceRefrigeration]

Yeah and even disregarding the "art preservation" angle, cropping just makes the footage look worse. The absolute best you could say about a cropped shot is that it only looks a little worse than the uncropped....and that's the best case scenario. What usually happens though is that close-up shots always look a lot worse and cramped. And shots that take advantage of the vertical height of the frame will have important things missing. And when you combine the cropping with the other issues on the colors/filtering side of things, then the 16:9 releases were just bad viewing experiences all around. I personally find them unwatchable, but that's obviously subjective and varies depending on the person.

Though I will say that Dragon Ball doesn't need to be some grand work of art in order to qualify for not getting 20% of its frame chopped off. Presenting the material as it actually is should be the bare minimum quality standard that every show or movie should receive.