Which character and/or plotline in the franchise is the biggest waste of potential?

[LoganForkHands73]

How were they independent? It's a mystery so we don't know where it's all heading and why things are different from Trunks' timeline. Why would anyone be confused. Time travel causing changes to the timeline is to be expected. It would be so odd if things played out like Trunks said. It would be too linear.

I don't agree with your take at all.

They all act independently. Gero and #19 wanted exact revenge on Goku. #16, #17 and #18 just wanted to be free to have fun, enough that #17 killed Gero, and mainly wanted to hunt Goku for the sport rather than genuine malice. Cell appears from another timeline entirely and wants to absorb #17 and #18 against their wishes. Seeing all these different threats playing against each other is intriguing and a great mystery at first, but I found the way the arc cycled through them all to be slightly abrupt and jarring.

It's more of a minor plot hole in the manga because Trunks outright states that Androids #19 and #20 were the ones that attacked in his timeline. That was before #17 and #18 were introduced, so Trunks later says he never saw the old geezer and the fat mime in his life, the real culprits are the twins.

For a long time, everything involving Trunks causing a butterfly effect confused the hell out of me, because it's never made clear what changes he could have made that would lead to such a radical change in the present timeline since he never interacted with the present Androids when he first time travelled there. I eventually concocted my own headcanon theory to make some sense of it like everyone else seems to.

And fair enough I guess. What's your take on the arc?

[ABED]

They weren't independent. Gero created all of them and even though 17 and 18 rebelled they were still trying to carry out Gero's wish - kill Goku. Same with Cell although there's even less independence there as he's clearly just responding to programming. Abrupt is not the word I would choose at all.

the numbering issue isn't a plot hole it's a mistake and a retcon.

For a long time, everything involving Trunks causing a butterfly effect confused the hell out of me, because it's never made clear what changes he could have made that would lead to such a radical change in the present timeline since he never interacted with the present Androids when he first time travelled there. I eventually concocted my own headcanon theory to make some sense of it like everyone else seems to.

It's time travel and it NEVER makes complete logical sense, and it's not just Trunks it was also Cell that caused the butterfly effect on the main timeline.

My take is the arc drags a lot, they mystery is over relatively quickly, and Cell isn't that interesting. The biggest issue is how Gohan plays into the story in that he doesn't and then he's the focal point. When he is, he suddenly is given a dilemma he never had before to justify a character arc. The arc doesn't land ultimately because in the end, Gohan still needs his hand held every step of the way. The Cell arc has plenty of good moments but it's overall pretty boring.

[LoganForkHands73]

They weren't independent. Gero created all of them and even though 17 and 18 rebelled they were still trying to carry out Gero's wish - kill Goku. Same with Cell although there's even less independence there as he's clearly just responding to programming. Abrupt is not the word I would choose at all.

I consider them all independent. They all fall under the broad shadow of Gero's revenge but aside from #19, none of them work for or obey Gero directly and all have their own contrasting motivations for doing what they do -- #17 and #18 don't actually care about killing Goku, they just want to play a fun game. Cell doesn't care about anything but his own perfection and only sees Goku as a challenging rival.

the numbering issue isn't a plot hole it's a mistake and a retcon.

Potato-potahto.

For a long time, everything involving Trunks causing a butterfly effect confused the hell out of me, because it's never made clear what changes he could have made that would lead to such a radical change in the present timeline since he never interacted with the present Androids when he first time travelled there. I eventually concocted my own headcanon theory to make some sense of it like everyone else seems to.

It's time travel and it NEVER makes complete logical sense

I guess that is the only sensible response to time travel nonsense sometimes.

I suppose a big wasted opportunity with many of the recent games is not expanding on the setting of Dragon Ball Online. I always felt that the Time Patrol was the least interesting part of it, but it's always focused on most in other projects like Xenoverse and Heroes. They only really exist as a plot device to allow for fanservicey time travel shenanigans (i.e. going back to the same old events from Z to insert your own OC) and seeing more boring versions of the Saiyan characters we know except in black leather trenchcoats.

[goku the krump dancer]

I personally feel like Gohan’s inner struggle fits quite well.. Sure he never volunteered to try to talk things out with any previous villain but he’s having his own independent moment at that time. Every other dire situation he was apart of, he was literally forced to be in. He was kidnapped by Raditz, then Kidnapped by Piccolo and forced to fight Vegeta and Nappa with no real prior experience, I mean he was Five years old at the time so that only makes it worse.

I mean yeah, he was determined to go to Namek but he was Riddled with guilt and felt like it was on himself to take a hand in bringing his friend back. They had no idea they’d be bumping heads with Vegeta and his former employer.

Even more so after the Cell arc, his whole “I won’t fight unless I have too” mantra, sticks with him until the end of the series, even in modern material. It became an established part of his character not just a random plot device so to speak to try to push a narrative for the climax of the arc.

I will say however that the final battle going from Goku to Gohan was definitely out of left field since nothing hinted at that prior to the moment itself, though I guess that also adds to the notion that he was always pushed into these life or death situations without any say so.

[Matches Malone]

Dragon Ball GT: Where do I even begin ?

I think the space travel idea was great, the problem is that they completely wasted it, for the most part at least.

Separating the dragon team into 2, one going after the balls in space while the other remains on earth is also great, but like the above, they did nothing with it.

Pan being Goku's grand daughter is a well of possibilities, but instead she's just there to complain and get in trouble.

Of all the members to form a team with, Goku, Pan, & Trunks is the worst combination. Why not throw Goten in there to give Trunks someone to work with ? he felt so out of place alone with Goku and Pan.

Speaking of Goku, although I don't like the idea of him being turned back into a child, I would've been a lot more forgiving had it been reversed when he went Ssj4.

For the most part I like Baby, but I would've preferred for him to be a complete good guy thinking he was saving the universe from the saiyans.

One thing I give major credit to GT was the risks it took, such as killing off Piccolo, but why not do anything worthy with him before doing so ? he just shows up and sacrifices himself.

For someone who was built up as Goku's successor, Uub has little to nothing to do.

For the Z fighters such as Gohan and Vegeta, they're just as useless, with Vegeta being slightly less so due to him getting Ssj4 and being Baby's main body. If you've got such a great cast of characters, use them.

Who's idea was it to have the super 17 arc be 6 episodes ? of all the things to cut time on, they picked this ?

Speaking of bad ideas, who thought it was smart to animate the fights with as little hand to hand choreography as possible ? I don't think Goku landed one single hit on Super 17. The other fights are just as bad.

Most agree that the shadow dragons were a great endpoint concept for the franchise, but for some reason more than half of them were nothing more than simple joke characters.

Speaking of the dragons, it was a great opportunity to give the Z fighters something to do, yet Goku for some reason gets to fight all of them alone. The least they could've done is had Ssj4 Vegeta take down ice Shenron.

Where's Gohan's mystic form ? not only did they give him nothing to do, they also took something from him on top of that.

I like the idea of Goten and Trunks fighting individually, but they couldn't fuse even once, especially at the end ?

[ABED]

I personally feel like Gohan’s inner struggle fits quite well.. Sure he never volunteered to try to talk things out with any previous villain but he’s having his own independent moment at that time. Every other dire situation he was apart of, he was literally forced to be in. He was kidnapped by Raditz, then Kidnapped by Piccolo and forced to fight Vegeta and Nappa with no real prior experience, I mean he was Five years old at the time so that only makes it worse.

I mean yeah, he was determined to go to Namek but he was Riddled with guilt and felt like it was on himself to take a hand in bringing his friend back. They had no idea they’d be bumping heads with Vegeta and his former employer.

Even more so after the Cell arc, his whole “I won’t fight unless I have too” mantra, sticks with him until the end of the series, even in modern material. It became an established part of his character not just a random plot device so to speak to try to push a narrative for the climax of the arc.

I will say however that the final battle going from Goku to Gohan was definitely out of left field since nothing hinted at that prior to the moment itself, though I guess that also adds to the notion that he was always pushed into these life or death situations without any say so.

And he didn’t have to fight Cell?

[goku the krump dancer]

Initially no, he was expecting to mostly be moral support for his dad, fighting only if absolutely necessary or even to wear Cell down enough for Goku to land the killing blow, should the Dragon Team had truly stuck to the "Cell runs the Gauntlet" approach. That's why everyone was so surprised that Goku not only went first (when they expected him to go last) but offering up Gohan as his replacement.

[DragonBallFoodie]

My opinion speaks for characters in DB and DBZ, Toriyama's own work.

Master Roshi has a lot of history that could showcase him as one of DB's best fighters.
By connection, his sister-sibling Baba counts too (and that connection too).

Lunch's history as a bandit should have been explored.

Chi-Chi and Videl should have stayed fighting, who knows how badass they could have become?

[FoolsGil]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

[ABED]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

[FoolsGil]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

Great, glad you like it.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

If people were interested in seeing things they didn't see before, they wouldn't be watching dragonball.

[ABED]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

Great, glad you like it.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

If people were interested in seeing things they didn't see before, they wouldn't be watching dragonball.

That wasn't me claiming I liked it (though for the record I do) just that he had full arc.

Your last sentence is confusing.

[FoolsGil]

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

Great, glad you like it.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

If people were interested in seeing things they didn't see before, they wouldn't be watching dragonball.

That wasn't me claiming I liked it (though for the record I do) just that he had full arc.

Your last sentence is confusing.

This is Dragonball's corpse. Not Dragonball. Not Dragonball Super. Dragonball's Corpse. The story beats are always the same. The middle is always the same, and It always ends the same. So when you say things querying "Well what's the point if there's nothing new." There's been nothing new since it's been back on the air. At least with space we wouldn't have this new idea of all these other universes and watch as absolutely nothing is done with it. We expect nothing from Space, it's a perfect place to bring in new fighters, or send Goku out to fight them. You bring in Multiverses when you actually got lore you want to do.

[JulieYBM]

Gohan in high school! I wanted to see him as a fish out of water more and the sort of weird couple dynamic of him and Videl. It's such a fun idea for a shoujo spin-off, too.

[MyVisionity]

Agree about Gohan in high school. I would have loved to see more of him and Videl up to stuff in Satan City. Plus Erasa, Sharpner and the gang at Orange Star High. What a great cast.

I would have watched a series of OVAs with them in it or at least a spinoff manga.

[Soppa Saia People]

i get saying gohan at the start of the boo arc is a waste, but you could say that for legitimately probably every boo arc character or plot line, it's part of the charm/why people hate it. but besides that, it's kinda silly to say that as a whole he's the biggest waste of a character, because he has a pretty clear arc as a whole, and you can't really say his arc in the saiyan and namek sagas are wasted because he didn't end up becoming the main character, because it's not like those stories were written with the intent of eventually making him the main character.

like yes i am a huge gohan fan, but in a series with characters like chaozu, i just don't see how he's the most wasted.

[UI Peter]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

Gohan's character went basically nowhere after the Cell Games.

And what's the point of introducing a multiverse if you aren't gonna explore them? Its a pointless concept if you aren't.

[ABED]

Largest Character Waste in the franchise? Gohan. I'm not even a Gohan fan, I'm pretty much neutral to him. but he was a setup that in the end led to nowhere.

Largest Plotline Waste in the franchise? The Multiverse. There were more elegant ways to bring in more fighters for Goku and Vegeta to effortlessly defeat. Like from Space, the other frontier that the series did jack and all with.

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

Gohan's character went basically nowhere after the Cell Games.

And what's the point of introducing a multiverse if you aren't gonna explore them? Its a pointless concept if you aren't.

He became the scholar he ultimately wanted to be. That's not nowhere.

The point of the multiverse is to say that Goku is not done yet. There are more mountains to climb. We don't need to see him explore them. It's simply to express the theme of the series.

At least with space we wouldn't have this new idea of all these other universes and watch as absolutely nothing is done with it. We expect nothing from Space, it's a perfect place to bring in new fighters, or send Goku out to fight them. You bring in Multiverses when you actually got lore you want to do.

We did get new fighters from space - The Saiyans and Freeza's empire.

And again with the damn lore. If we want new characters and can find them via the multiverse, fine, but if this is an exercise in world building, hell no. Characters and the fights are the draw, not exposition.

[FoolsGil]

Gohan goes from crybaby to someone brave and capable.

What is there to really do with the multiverse and outer space? What would happen there that we fundamentally didn't see before?

Gohan's character went basically nowhere after the Cell Games.

And what's the point of introducing a multiverse if you aren't gonna explore them? Its a pointless concept if you aren't.

He became the scholar he ultimately wanted to be. That's not nowhere.

The point of the multiverse is to say that Goku is not done yet. There are more mountains to climb. We don't need to see him explore them. It's simply to express the theme of the series.

At least with space we wouldn't have this new idea of all these other universes and watch as absolutely nothing is done with it. We expect nothing from Space, it's a perfect place to bring in new fighters, or send Goku out to fight them. You bring in Multiverses when you actually got lore you want to do.

We did get new fighters from space - The Saiyans and Freeza's empire.

And again with the damn lore. If we want new characters and can find them via the multiverse, fine, but if this is an exercise in world building, hell no. Characters and the fights are the draw, not exposition.

The characters and fights are the draw, but Space is too old? But who cares about that when the characters and fights are the draw right? So just come up with more space aliens. who cares in the end, The characters and fights are the draw. And the best part is, because the series does not want to explore ANYTHING, you know because The characters and fights are the draw, they can just keep coming up with beings and monsters from other worlds....Because the characters and fights are the draw, not exposition.

And if you wanted something new? This is the wrong place for it. Dragonball's Corpse. Not Dragonball.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Wasted Character: Gohan

Join me with the group that feel his conflict and struggle on the Cell Arc is completely artificial and that it only works if you ignored that he already went through that in the two previous arcs.

Wasted Plotline: The state of Freeza's Empire after his demise.

While this was somewhat rectified with Ressurection F and Super as far as the manga was concerned it's still there, maybe still working? Maybe still on mayhem? We'll never know.