Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:40 am

Robo4900 wrote: .
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:23 pm Well he did say he was gonna make Gohan into a Mazoku
Dunno about turning him into a Demon Clan guy

Per Simmons subtitles

“I, Piccolo-sama, will personally put you through some hellish training. So much that you’ll come to believe you’d be better off dying! Brace yourself! I’ll also turn you into an outstanding Demon Clansman!”

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Zestanor » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:09 am

And he gives off a hearty maniacal laugh. I thought it was comical actually, the idea of celebrating at the idea of making a little boy into the image of Piccolo Daimao.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:41 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:40 am
Robo4900 wrote: .
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:23 pm Well he did say he was gonna make Gohan into a Mazoku
Dunno about turning him into a Demon Clan guy
Per Simmons subtitles

“I, Piccolo-sama, will personally put you through some hellish training. So much that you’ll come to believe you’d be better off dying! Brace yourself! I’ll also turn you into an outstanding Demon Clansman!”
lol. Guess I was wrong. Piccolo is way more evil in the early Saiyan arc than I remembered. :lol:
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:41 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:40 am
Robo4900 wrote: .

Dunno about turning him into a Demon Clan guy
Per Simmons subtitles

“I, Piccolo-sama, will personally put you through some hellish training. So much that you’ll come to believe you’d be better off dying! Brace yourself! I’ll also turn you into an outstanding Demon Clansman!”
lol. Guess I was wrong. Piccolo is way more evil in the early Saiyan arc than I remembered. :lol:
Yeah that's something that catches me off guard too re-watching the Saiyan arc. When I think of Piccolo, my mind goes to "Frieza arc and beyond, Piccolo" where you can safely call him a good guy and have no doubts.

Here, he's still intent on ruling the world, and at this time he's only helping in the fight because Vegeta and Nappa are obstacles in his way. He goes out of his way to remind everyone that he doesn't give a crap about what happens to them. :lol:
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:50 pm

He definitely still carries a lot of evil momentum from the previous two arcs, it's really cool. Still doesn't make his sudden turn for five minutes in the Android Arc any less bizarre though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:57 am

KBABZ wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:50 pm He definitely still carries a lot of evil momentum from the previous two arcs, it's really cool. Still doesn't make his sudden turn for five minutes in the Android Arc any less bizarre though.
Are you referring to when Piccolo declares himself a Mazoku and attacks everybody just before heading off to merge with God? That was him having an identity crisis and pretending to still be evil because of the decision he was making.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:17 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:57 am
KBABZ wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:50 pm He definitely still carries a lot of evil momentum from the previous two arcs, it's really cool. Still doesn't make his sudden turn for five minutes in the Android Arc any less bizarre though.
Are you referring to when Piccolo declares himself a Mazoku and attacks everybody just before heading off to merge with God? That was him having an identity crisis and pretending to still be evil because of the decision he was making.
Certainly wasn't made clear...

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:28 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 pm
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:41 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:40 am
Per Simmons subtitles

“I, Piccolo-sama, will personally put you through some hellish training. So much that you’ll come to believe you’d be better off dying! Brace yourself! I’ll also turn you into an outstanding Demon Clansman!”
lol. Guess I was wrong. Piccolo is way more evil in the early Saiyan arc than I remembered. :lol:
Yeah that's something that catches me off guard too re-watching the Saiyan arc. When I think of Piccolo, my mind goes to "Frieza arc and beyond, Piccolo" where you can safely call him a good guy and have no doubts.

Here, he's still intent on ruling the world, and at this time he's only helping in the fight because Vegeta and Nappa are obstacles in his way. He goes out of his way to remind everyone that he doesn't give a crap about what happens to them. :lol:
His turnaround to good guy can can be identified as when he sacrificed himself to save Gohan. Up to that point he was just in “allying myself with my enemies to defeat a greater threat” mode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:46 am

Well, I've realized I may not be able to get through my reviews for all five episodes before Week 38 so I'll just post what I have for now, and I will get back to Episodes 163-165 later. I also have my Dead Zone review in note form that I plan to sort into paragraphs with an introduction and conclusion too.

Suffice to say, thoughts on this week's episodes thus far:

Episode 161 - The Great Transformation on a Moonlit Night! The Secret of Gohan’s Power (Z Episode 8 )

An appropriately ominous episode for the countdown to doomsday on Earth and a juxtaposition between this and Goku's journey of hope in the other world.

The Kikuchi score is used to great effect at various points in the episode, all capturing the world and tone of Dragon Ball flawlessly. Gohan's moments sleeping at night out in the wild is quite haunting to emphasize the volatility of nature and the danger of predators, while Goku's moments running along Snake Way takes a more adventurous turns. Conversely Chi-Chi washing dishes is complimented by peaceful music followed by silence as she starts to worry for Gohan's future and Gohan's transformation into an Oozaru is accompanied by thumping sound effects before a dynamic melody, carrying the shock of this innocent little boy becoming a great ape.

Gohan's childhood innocence is very endearing, lagely because of how vulnerable and frightened he is presented as being. As Gohan sleeps he sheds a tear for his mother he dearly misses, awakening only to be terrified at how high he is on the cliff. Moreover Gohan shows a longing for connection as he watched stampeding dinosaurs asking for a lift down the cliff, while crying wanting his parents to salvage him. As Gohan is denied help he turns to a squirrel who he tries to bond with by offering him an apple, and as the squirrel gets down the cliff he watches to see how he does it but still remains scared to try it himself. As Gohan then transforms into an Oozaru there is a moment of tension, although in hindsight Raditz talking about how saiyans transform with the moon foreshadowed Piccolo destroying the moon and Gohan reverting to his original form, but for Piccolo's character development it was good to see him save the day again.

The greater tension in the episode is the struggle for the remaining heroes to reveal Goku's death and Gohan's capture to Chi-Chi because these two events have set this arc in notion and disrupted a recently established family unit between the Sons. Goku had just got married, and now the life his wife wanted is being torn apart before her eyes. Kuririn's escape from Kame House to escape it demonstrated his loyalty to Goku not wanting to be the culprit. Bulma is more wilful and is disappointed because she knows its the right thing to do and putting it off will only make things worse. Muten Roshi, having the bond he had with Kuririn is more understanding of why he abstained and suggests he writes a letter instead. The differences in perspective regarding the approach among these characters remains a sense of reward for having watched the series up until the current point.

In fact Bulma shows her smarts in more ways than one. In addition to understanding that women always know something is up and prolonging the inevitable doesn't help she shows that she has taken advantage of Raditz death. As Bulma shoots Kuririn and Muten Roshi to keep them grounded she shows off the scouter she constructed for reading people's power levels. The scene with Kuririn realizing he has a higher power level than Muten Roshi was funny and another great character moment. Chi-Chi too remains a strong female character who can set humorous scenes in motion through her interactions with other characters. The scene where Chi-Chi is speeding, scaring her dad after hearing his suggestion of Gohan skipping cram school highlights the extents to which she will go to protect her son's best interests.

Apart from the destruction of the moon, which will give the Saiyans one less outlet of unleashing destruction upon the Earth, two other events in this episode set the wheels in motion for events to come. For instance Yajirobe gives the message for Kuririn, Yamcha and Tien to go for training on the lookout and informs them Goku is training in the other world but wants to stay there, thus reminding his friends that he will do whatever he can to become stronger. Furthermore, after the shock arrival of Chi-Chi and Roshi freaking out over the letter not being written he whispers about Gohan being kidnapped by Piccolo, terrifies her and when he admits Goku died she faints.

While all the other characters' journeys have shown a number of directions they will be taking the ending with Gohan and Goku being asleep in the canyon and Snake Way respectively there is a sense that much lies ahead for father and son in this arc.

Episode 162 - Sorry Robot-san — The Tears that Vanished in the Desert (Z Episode 9)

A wonderful filler episode for telling Gohan's journey and adventures as he discovers the world beyond Mount Paozu as his father before him. Interestingly Goku's journey was about the friends he meets, whereas with Gohan, as he knows Bulma, Kuririn and others through Goku his journey is more about his personal conquests.

In this episode it becomes clear that Gohan is being thrown into the deep end, so to speak, we see more of the things he took for granted living with his loving mother through his interactions, in this case with the robot he encounters, and the simple task of staying alive as he is exposed to predatory animals, which threatens the sense of harmony one would hope to have with nature.

The feeling of harmony is emphasized at the beginning of the episode through the use of a peaceful musical track as the sun rises upon the canyon. Gohan's sense of cluelessness is shown through his failure to understand how he reached the bottom of the cliff whereas he previously had struggled, and being terrified of what happened to his tail. The aforementioned threat to peace is also told through the treacherous sounding track that plays as a crocodile tries to eat Gohan. Conversely hopeful music plays as an Eagle saves Gohan from being eaten. These shifts in tone show the unpredictability of Gohan's environment and how other creatures will interact with him. Additionally there is an ominous track playing as Gohan stumbles into the cave where he encounters a mysterious robot, and a harmonious track when he is sleeping by the robot's side. Gohan's relationship with this robot, much like the music shifts is highly tremulous.

Gohan's desire to connect with the robot reaffirms his need for companionship, and someone to help him escape this volatile life. The robot's irritation at Gohan switching him on is a rather dispirit moment for his development, realizing that even if Piccolo is redeemed not everyone he meets will be there to help him out, although it's a great life lesson. Gohan's hurt is highlighted as he cries longing for his mother's love and feeling hungry as the cave begins to collapse upon him.

Interestingly we also see Gohan's intelligence at various points. For example Gohan notices the type of robot this is and asks it to cook him some raw meat. At times Gohan does appear to be relying on his mother too much asking for her style, which the robot won't know, but it shows a sense of loyalty and honour. Gohan also finds the blue and red wires he needs to connect before the robot's power fully goes out, and allows it to finally stand.

Much like Goku before him, it was also good to see Gohan make a friend out of someone or something that saw him as an enemy, as the robot does seem to see Gohan in a different light. Finally understanding the fear Gohan had off falling off the cliff, the robot not only saves Gohan from a pillar that almost falls on him but it swings him to the other cliff to save him from either being stomped or falling to his death. Gohan's compassion as he cries seeing the robot potentially killed and is relieved when he is just about alive was very sweet and captivating.

It is a largely serious episode, although there are some funny moments sprinkled in here and there. There is a certain endearing appeal to Goku, like Gohan being hungry at various points in the episode. It shows not only Goku and Gohan share the same love for food, if not to the same extent, but that the former never changes, even in death. The further Goku gets on Snake Way the more he thinks about food, even when he falls asleep he's still thinking about it. The funniest scene however was when Goku was eating the clouds.

As Gohan walks confidently through the canyon and Goku hurries along Snake Way the episode ends with a clear message that there is plenty left to be told of both characters' stories.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:05 am

Watching these episodes I often feel like I prefer the Z version of the Saiyan arc to Kai. Just so much great development for these characters that was glossed over, despite the pacing for the series overall being much better.

Episode 163 - Don’t Cry Gohan! His First Fight (Z Episode 10)

Tonally this is quite a dark episode, but not for the looming threat of the saiyans, which has been a motif throughout this arc, but more for how nature is not always a wonderful place for young children.

The silence as rain falls in Gohan's surroundings and the voices that scare him as lightning ensues are subtle portrayals of the dark side of nature that Gohan will be faced with and be tasked with overcoming in this stage of his growth. It is part and parcel of nature and how to a child especially it can feel like a force of its own.

As the theme of this episode is the unforgivability of nature the use of mostly dark sounding music fit like a glove. The haunting Kikuchi track that plays when Gohan has a flashback of himself and Goku makes the loss of his father all the more poignant. Similarly when Gohan's fruit is taken from him the ominous track is a reminder to never trust strangers out and about. This is an important life lesson for Gohan.

Interestingly, there is more time given to how Gohan sustains himself out in the wild. Gohan catches a Fish, and takes fruit from the trees and keeps them by his side as he sleeps, and them being confiscated is presented as being a major misfortune for him. The son of Goku also shows how he stimulates his brain, when he sees the difference in predatory habits between the Apatosaurus and the Paozusaurus he remembers what he read in a book about how not all Dinosaurs eat meat. This distinction becomes important when it comes to Gohan's empathetic nature.

Not only does this episode show how Gohan sustains himself, but it shows more of his compassionate side. Gohan's memories of time spent with Goku reinforce how much his death has affected him, and how he fondly remembers what he taught him. At the time Goku treated Gohan's wound Gohan wanted to go home and get some medicine from his mam, but now he is using that trick as he sleeps by the fire with a leaf on his shoulder. Gohan also shows empathy for the bleeding Apatosaurus after seeing the branch stuck in him, and attempts to help him recover as Goku had done before with him. Gohan also sheds a tear when he sees the dinosaur's bones, after seeing the Paozusaurus brutally devour him by the neck.

There are good character moments from Goku and his friends. The Yamcha moments in the stadium where he feels irritated because he is, by his admission a martial artist not a baseball player, but Puar reminds him he needs a job. This banter between them is extremely endearing. Moreover, when Yamcha sees the other baseball players rioting he gets jealous of their action, and he promises to get involved and go easy on them, only to knock the other players out with ease.

In other character moments, while there is still some banter between them the cracks begin to show. Not all is rosy however, there are burdens on these characters and even heartbreak. Kuririn has to break the terrible news to Yamcha that Goku has died. Bulma is irritated that Yamcha stood her up on their last date, showing that their relationship is on its knees. Kuririn is sceptical seeing the old married couple bickering between Yamcha and Bulma, crossing his arms to show disapproval and perhaps envy over not being in a relationship himself. Nonetheless Kuririn and Yamcha still have training in the Heavenly Realm and determination to defeat the Saiyans to bond over.

With new life lessons learned for Gohan and turmoil between Goku's friends this episode offers both growth for some characters and hurt for others. One thing is for certain the worst is yet to come for most, if not all of them.

Episode 164 - The Saiyan, Strongest Warriors in the Universe, Awaken! (Z Episode 11)

One of the most unique episodes of this arc thus far, mostly for the exploration of the Saiyans' lives and how they conquer other planets, with some of Gohan's journey thrown in for good measure.

The Gohan moments in this episode are good, he is shown to have overcome some of his fears, and can defend himself from carnivorous dinosaurs that would otherwise pose a threat to his life. As Gohan awakes on top of a cliff and hops down it is clear that he has overcome his previous fear of the height of his surroundings.

The Kikuchi tracks offer a musical odyssey through Gohan's journey. A joyful track plays as Gohan kicks a tree to pick out as much fruit as he can. The more threatening track that plays as the carnivorous dinosaur drools looking down at Gohan emphasizes the menacing nature of some of the creatures he has been enduring in the wild. Joyful music persists as Gohan runs from the dinosaur to suggest a sense of adventure as he gets away and saves himself, and the silence as the dinosaur hits his head on a cliff fits the awkwardness of his failed endeavour. The music also serves Vegeta and Nappa's story in this episode, expressing the sense of mystery at King Moai's castle on a planet, which as will become clear is vastly different from the environments that have been shown on Earth thus far.

There aren't many moments spent with other heroes in this episode, although it wasn't necessary as there has been plenty in more recent episodes. The scene with Lunch riding off on her motorbike after a bank robbery thinking of all the food she can feed Tien with clearly shows her relationship with him, like Bulma and Yamcha is an unhealthy one, but in a different respect, illustrating the extents to which she will go to pine after this reclusive martial artist. Goku's scenes are appropriately brief to remind the viewer that he is still on his journey down Snake Way without taking away from the main plot involving Vegeta and Nappa as they set course for Arlia.

The exploration of the planet of Arlia, which much of this episode involves Vegeta and Nappa determining whether or not it was worth selling was a worthy addition to this arc. It was the first other planet in the living Universe that this series provides a sufficient outlook on. The look of the planet was a huge departure from Earth, completely barren with a dark, red sky. The sense of horror and the abyss imagery encapsulates the sense of a planet run by a dictator perfectly. This dictator however will become no threat once Vegeta and Nappa land.

Vegeta and Nappa's arrival on Arlia was interesting to watch. Not only does it delve more into the relationship between these two space pirates, but it also shows how ferocious they can be in their intergalactic conflicts. The differences between how Nappa and Vegeta demonstrate that while both warriors are evil they are different people within those confines. It was previously established that Nappa wanted to resurrect Nappa to regrow their forces, whereas Vegeta's first desire when it comes to wishes was immortality. Similarly in this case Nappa wishes to kill the bug people on Arlia, however Vegeta allows them to be captured and taken to King Moai. Vegeta shows his bargaining power by reminding Moai of his promise to give himself and Nappa anything they wished for.

The conflict on Arlia between Vegeta, Nappa and the bug people also made this episode worth watching as it supports the building up of the former as being the threat of this arc. Moai offers Vegeta a challenge in the form of facing off against these creatures thinking that he won't be able to defeat them. Of course Vegeta manages to defeat these bug people with a simple zap, and Nappa causes shockwaves by lifting his finger to vaporize them, and pulls arms off others and blasts them after saying he's tired of playing around. These action sequences greatly foreshadow what Goku's friends have ahead of them when Vegeta and Nappa arrive on Earth.

The real terror of the Saiyans however comes with how not only the planet Arlia was completely destroyed, but it ended the reunion of King Atla and Lemlia who are shown running towards one another's arms. Vegeta destroys the planet, mockingly saying the bug people are beautiful when destroyed. This sequence is equally tragic as it is telling of the ruthlessness of the Saiyans, not dissimilar to what Goku had seen in Piccolo Daimao, but a lot more powerful.

The choice to end this episode juxtaposing Vegeta and Nappa's plotted wish for immortality with Goku running down along Snake Way was an intriguing choice. This contrast between a looming threat living for the wrong reasons and the dead hero on his way to better himself in the hopes of doing right by his family and friends when he is revived suggests the upcoming collision of worldviews.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 37 - DBZ episode 8-12

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:39 am

Quite late with finishing this week's episodes, but will be catching up in due time.

Episode 165 - Catnap on the Serpent Road — Goku Takes a Tumble (Z Episode 12)

An episode filled with great character moments, and a great balance of focus on each character, not just Gohan and Goku, which was a great decision, especially for an arc focused on the Saiyans.

Kikuchi's tracks, as always set the scene for various tones relevant to numerous scenes throughout the episode. The soothing music at the beginning as Gohan rests highlights his sense of innocence. A more mysterious sounding track is used during Tien's meditation to imply something unusual is set to happen. Similarly more tense music plays when cliffs collapse and earthquakes ensue to allow the sense of danger to escalate. Conversely Goku's sight of a fruit tree is accompanied by a playful track to highlight his wonder, although that is to be short lived.

There are some scenes which show the compassion Goku's friends have for him, such as Roshi and Turtle looking out to sea worried Goku's request will mean he won't be resurrected in time for the Saiyans arrival on Earth. Gohan's thoughts lingering on Goku as he sleeps and remembering his last moments with him where he was told to run away was very touching and reinforces that he had a special bond with his father. The most endearing character moments in this episode, however, are the scenes between Tien and Lunch, and in particular how we see their relationship works, which is quite a deviation from other relationships in the series. Bad Lunches continued efforts pining after Tien and Tien's detachment from her approaches, which show their contrasting priorities were rather amusing. Lunches efforts to feed Tien and Chaoizu a meal by a team of chefs emphasized the extent to which she was willing to go despite Tien's focus clearly being on training. Initially it was easy to empathize with Lunch for Tien's lack of reciprocation, but his decision to let her hold on to him when she was in danger was very admirable and shows his caring side, and how he will at least protect others he may not share the feelings they have with them.

Interestingly Goku's influence is clearly shown in Tien's mindset. Tien makes an interesting comment that he learned through Goku the world is a big place and that there will always be someone stronger out there. Moreover, Tien's curiosity as to what kind of training Goku must have been undertaking infers a certain envy for how Goku always knows how to push himself. The importance of being able to fend for oneself is an important theme, especially in light of what other characters are capable of.

Piccolo's failure to control his immense power, leading to a pyramid collapsing and sand beginning to sink around him demonstrated the importance of characters not only becoming stronger but being able to manage their power. The shockwaves causing devastation for other characters, such as the aforementioned Tien and Lunch as well as Gohan almost falling into a fissure are clear signs of how much responsibility comes with the levels of power characters in this series have been attaining. The naivety of characters like Good Lunch as she lays on a bed of flowers puts this sense of danger into perspective. Lunches decision to momentarily stop herself from sneezing was also quite endearing for showing how self conscious she's become of the danger, albeit to a much lesser extent she could cause. On a similar note Goku's naivety surrounding the extent of his journey makes it more enjoyable. As Goku is told by the caretaker he's only a quarter of the way to Kaio's planet and ends up sleeping at the back of the car sets him on course for an even worse and more long winded journey than he originally set out for.

As Goku falls to hell, this episode comes full circle from Gohan washing his face, excited for what's on the horizon Goku will now see the other side of the afterlife, not just the fun training he was so excited for.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula will be writing :thumbup:

Check out my website https://www.dragonballinternational.com/

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