A Change of Heart

[TheNingen]

Throughout the run of Dragon Ball, there have been many characters that we've all as fans no doubt hated for one reason or another. Whether it was the overbearing nature of Chi Chi rubbing us the wrong way when we were kids, the cliched writing of Jiren, the attitude and power growth of Kale and Caulifla, how annoying Mr. Satan could be, etc etc the list goes on.

In this topic, I want to know: Including EVERY part of the Dragon Ball franchise (Shows, games, etc), who has a character that you have had a change of heart about? A character you loathed at first, but grew to love over time. And to make it more interesting, the picks can also be stories (Dragon Ball Minus, Evolution, whatever. No holds barred.) Controversial picks are encouraged. Also, WHY did you have this change of heart?

For me, I have grown to like and appreciate the Universe 6 Saiyan girls more and also Jiren himself. I just think Kale and Caulifla are fun together. And their moments before erasure in the ToP made me feel a bit sad for them. And as a concept, I like Jiren. A lot of the abilities he was given in the anime, and a lot of his fighting with Android 17, Freeza and Goku were genuinely fun for me. I like how he worked off of the three of them, and I hope he's given more to do in cannon soon.

[MasenkoHA]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

[Soppa Saia People]

i hated mr satan as a kid, mainly because i didn't find slapstick very funny and i was kinda bitter over viz's use of Hercule, that i just wanted nothing to do with the character lol. i still don't like, super love him, but he's a great character and toriyama did a great job turning him from a boring 1 note gag character, to a pretty well written gag character. ^ and on the subject of voices changing your perception of characters, i found tenshinhan beyond boring first reading the manga, to really loving him solely because of suzuoki's performance as him. even now, where i'm back to mostly finding him boring besides the 22nd budokai, i still like adore suzuoki's voice for him lol.

[Planetnamek]

I used to think of Chi-Chi as an annoying nag character but now i'm started to sympathize with her a bit more.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

For me, I never hated characters like Chi-Chi...and I a lot of my opinions haven't changed all that drastically about most characters. I will say though that I used to think Yajirobe, Chiatzou, and especially Mr. Satan were terrible characters. I've come to appreciate all 3 of them. Yajirobe...tbh I find his cowardice quite hilarious, but he also had his shining moments in the King Piccolo and Saiyan arcs. He even trained with the others on Kami's lookout! Had he been motivated to keep training, imagine how strong he could have gotten! Then there's Chiatzou. For one thing, the scene where Krillin defeats him in the 22nd by confusing him with math is HILARIOUS. And then there's Mr. Satan. For the longest, I hated him (and kind of still do in the Cell Games arc). In the Buu arc, I find him hilarious, which is a good tihng considering how much of a role he had in it. It's nice that she ends up somewhat redeeming himself there, too. For all his faults, he's not a wicked person at the core.

On the flip side, characters I liked (or thought I liked) at first at now absolutely cannot stand are Kibito and Shin. Mysterious and ominous initially, only to be rendered totally useless later on (with minor exceptions). I do dig their designs, though.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

Just curious, did you feel that way about Pauline Newstone's Freeza in the Ocean dub, or just Linda Young's Freeza? I found Newstone's Freeza voice extremely creepy yet regal and arrogant. Hers really made Freeza sound slimy. When I first heard Chris Ayres' Freeza in Kai, it actually reminded me a lot of Newstone's as far as the regality, which was definitely a positive in my book.

[ABED]

I disliked the Ocean dub in the late 90s because of all the changes being made and a lot of the casting choices, but now I love it warts and all. It's a lot of very talented actors working with poor material.

[Xeogran]

Semi Perfect Cell: First thought of him as a punching bag like most of the watchers, but now I've opened my eyes and realized that actually works in his favor -> He's an absolute TANK. All these hits from Super Vegeta and SSJ Trunks, and he doesn't even need a Senzu. It's rare for a character to survive this much beatdown without hax being involved.

He also achieved more than in any other of his forms through killing Goku and having a lasting impact until the entire Buu arc: No SPC exploding, no SSJ3 or Fusion technique.

You can feel that Toriyama really wanted to give this form some justice.

[coola]

Change for worse can also be included? If yes, then i would add Goku and Vegeta:
- They never learn from their mistakes and arrogance
- Once again, in Super, they play off Goku stupidity and Vegeta whining about pride way too much.
- Their overpower goes against early DB philosophy "If you train, you can overcome every obstacle" nowadays, you should add "..but only if you were born a Saiyan"

[MasenkoHA]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

Just curious, did you feel that way about Pauline Newstone's Freeza in the Ocean dub, or just Linda Young's Freeza? I found Newstone's Freeza voice extremely creepy yet regal and arrogant. Hers really made Freeza sound slimy. When I first heard Chris Ayres' Freeza in Kai, it actually reminded me a lot of Newstone's as far as the regality, which was definitely a positive in my book.

They honesty sounded pretty interchangeable as a kid but even though I was aware of Dragon Ball Z during the Ocean days and saw a good chunk of episodes I didn’t start really getting into the show until Goku was fighting Freeza, well into the Funimation studios cast takeover.


But really both sound like lizard women to me. Nothing about Newstone reminded me of Ayres.

[ABED]

Change for worse can also be included? If yes, then i would add Goku and Vegeta:
- They never learn from their mistakes and arrogance
- Once again, in Super, they play off Goku stupidity and Vegeta whining about pride way too much.
- Their overpower goes against early DB philosophy "If you train, you can overcome every obstacle" nowadays, you should add "..but only if you were born a Saiyan"

Goku wins in the end so why would he have need to learn?

And how is Goku stupid?

[Polyphase Avatron]

I hated Mr. Satan in the Cell saga but I changed my mind in the Buu saga.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

Just curious, did you feel that way about Pauline Newstone's Freeza in the Ocean dub, or just Linda Young's Freeza? I found Newstone's Freeza voice extremely creepy yet regal and arrogant. Hers really made Freeza sound slimy. When I first heard Chris Ayres' Freeza in Kai, it actually reminded me a lot of Newstone's as far as the regality, which was definitely a positive in my book.

They honesty sounded pretty interchangeable as a kid but even though I was aware of Dragon Ball Z during the Ocean days and saw a good chunk of episodes I didn’t start really getting into the show until Goku was fighting Freeza, well into the Funimation studios cast takeover.


But really both sound like lizard women to me. Nothing about Newstone reminded me of Ayres.

Interesting. Nothing about Newstone reminds me of Young either. Ayres is deifnitely my favorite, though.

[ABED]

I think I'd have the same change of heart towards Mr. Satan I had if I watched it today. Far too often characters are introduced as douche-bags and you know they are being set up to show they actually have hidden depths the other characters didn't know about. Sometimes it works, often times, it's a cliche that falls flat. I think Mr. Satan's arc worked because he wasn't set up to have hidden depths. He's a douche bag, but it's through his love of his daughter and his unintentional but genuine and ultimately touching friendship with Buu we see he has a good heart. And as much fun as it would be to see his fraud get outed, him using it to save the universe was very gratifying.

It's a lot like Andy Bernard on The Office.

[MasenkoHA]

Interesting. Nothing about Newstone reminds me of Young either. .

Young was doing a Newstone impression in 1999 (less so in the redubbing) they’re both doing that lizard like snarl thing Newstone just does it better.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Interesting. Nothing about Newstone reminds me of Young either. .

Young was doing a Newstone impression in 1999 (less so in the redubbing) they’re both doing that lizard like snarl thing Newstone just does it better.

Well yeah, just about all the in-house Funimation actors were impersonating the Ocean actors at first, badly.

[Planetnamek]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

Just curious, did you feel that way about Pauline Newstone's Freeza in the Ocean dub, or just Linda Young's Freeza? I found Newstone's Freeza voice extremely creepy yet regal and arrogant. Hers really made Freeza sound slimy. When I first heard Chris Ayres' Freeza in Kai, it actually reminded me a lot of Newstone's as far as the regality, which was definitely a positive in my book.

Newstone took some time to grow on me, but I liked Young's Freeza right away, she really gave him a sick sadistic sense of humor, the whole regality aspect of his character was never something I cared about so I wasn't exactly blown away by Ayres performance like others were.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

As a kid I used to think Freeza sucked and was the worst Z villain. But then watching a more accurate portrayal of him in Kai and then the actual take by Ryusei Nakao made me appreciate him more. I didn’t hate Freeza I hated Funimation’s take on him.

Just curious, did you feel that way about Pauline Newstone's Freeza in the Ocean dub, or just Linda Young's Freeza? I found Newstone's Freeza voice extremely creepy yet regal and arrogant. Hers really made Freeza sound slimy. When I first heard Chris Ayres' Freeza in Kai, it actually reminded me a lot of Newstone's as far as the regality, which was definitely a positive in my book.

Newstone took some time to grow on me, but I liked Young's Freeza right away, she really gave him a sick sadistic sense of humor, the whole regality aspect of his character was never something I cared about so I wasn't exactly blown away by Ayres performance like others were.

I do appreciate that aspect of Young's Freeza. And I actually liked that her 2nd Form Freeza had a deeper voice. But for me, the regality is a big reason Freeza jumped out to me as my favorite Dragon Ball villain. I remember even before I knew much about him, I played some game on CartoonNetwork.com where you had to stop him from getting the Dragon Balls. And there was something about his presence/the regal way he was presented that really set him apart to me even as a kid.

But to keep this on topic, I will say that while I had gotten to dislike Young's performance, I can appreciate it now for those same reasons you stated, the sick/sadistic sense of humor.

[ABED]

But to keep this on topic, I will say that while I had gotten to dislike Young's performance, I can appreciate it now for those same reasons you stated, the sick/sadistic sense of humor.

It's about as sadistic as Rita Repulsa's. It's a bunch of stupid puns and weak attempts at humor from the writers. Just god awful. It's possible for that kind of humor to work but you need the right actor to sell it and Young is not that person.

[MasenkoHA]

I’m at a loss at what made Young’s Freeza’s humor “sadistic” it was nothing but a lot of really dumb quips oh and the occasional homosexual undertone