What Inconsistencies &/or Retcons You Wished Were Never Made In Dragon Ball Super?

[SupremeKai25]

I mean, I mentioned that theory, but since you refuse to acknowledge theories there isn't much room for discussion here. So Yes, Zamasu couldn't have known Zeno would intervene, and so if he didn't have a backup plan it's not because he was stupid, it's because Goku has the main character status which grants him friendship with Zeno.

If you always argue Zamasu had such a deep and thought out plan, the story should acknowledge what he was going to do with the biggest obstacle to his plan. There's nothing wrong with fan theories but it has to at least be hinted at in the story to believe it's what was intended. My theory was that he was a young apprentice who became too far gone and wanted to fulfill his vision so badly that what to do about Zeno didn't cross his mind. The argument that he might've intended to use Goku's appearance to manipulate Zeno isn't likely since he could've mentioned losing that opportunity once he fused and no longer looked like Goku.

I agree that Zeno should've noticed when all the gods were killed but it doesn't mean we should jump to the conclusion that he would never notice for the rest of eternity. That would require Zamasu to believe Zeno will never hold a meeting with all the gods or ever get bored and decide to see what's going on in the universes. The fact that almost all the gods present during the tournament he watched knew who Zeno was should indicate that it wasn't the first time they met him. He either summoned them before or showed up in their universes at some point.

Not really. Those Gods could have just heard about Zeno from their predecessors and that's it. After all Zamasu also knew about Zeno, but he never met him.

Regardless, the point is simple. Zeno had no clue at all that Zamasu had destroyed all mortals, including the other Gods, and the only reason why he intervened is because Goku literally forced him to come to the battlefield and told him that Zamasu is the one who destroyed everything (obviously Zamasu wouldn't snitch on himself if Zeno confronted him). That's it. Since you are so fixated on what happened in the story, that's what happened, so the story clearly shows that Zamasu had no reason to fear Zeno since he didn't give a shit about anything and anyone, otherwise he would've acted sooner. The Gods were annihilated 1 year before the start of the Future Trunks arc, that's a lot of time for Zeno to notice all his employees have mysteriously vanished (from a writing perspective, the writers didn't convey at all the idea that Zeno might be confronting Zamasu in the future). Make of that what you will.

[Skar]

Since you are so fixated on what happened in the story, that's what happened, so the story clearly shows that Zamasu had no reason to fear Zeno since he didn't give a shit about anything and anyone, otherwise he would've acted sooner.

I'm fixated on that because the story has already shown him appearing in one of the universes and the gods recognizing him. The following arc makes it even less likely that Zamasu could've went unnoticed for long since it reveals each universe has a mortal score so they would likely wonder why they start dropping to almost zero. If it was said that Zeno spent all his time as the Omni-King in his throne room and none of the gods knew what he looked like, I could believe he'll never find out about Zamasu but that isn't what the story ever implied.

[SupremeKai25]

Since you are so fixated on what happened in the story, that's what happened, so the story clearly shows that Zamasu had no reason to fear Zeno since he didn't give a shit about anything and anyone, otherwise he would've acted sooner.

I'm fixated on that because the story has already shown him appearing in one of the universes and the gods recognizing him. The following arc makes it even less likely that Zamasu could've went unnoticed for long since it reveals each universe has a mortal score so they would likely wonder why they start dropping to almost zero. If it was said that Zeno spent all his time as the Omni-King in his throne room and none of the gods knew what he looked like, I could believe he'll never find out about Zamasu but that isn't what the story ever implied.

The story also implied he doesn't care. He didn't care about Majin Buu destroying countless galaxies throughout the universe and wiping out most of the Kais in U7, and he doesn't care now about Moro threatening to consume all life in U7.

And if he did confront Zamasu eventually, it's also jumping to conclusion to assume he'd instantly be hostile towards Zamasu. After all Zeno didn't know who Zamasu was, nor who was responsible for the destruction of all mortal civilizations. Goku had to tell him who Zamasu was, but since this is a what-if in which Zamasu completed Project Zero Mortals, then no one would be around to snitch on Zamasu. It's also shown in ep. 67 that it's not hard to convince Zeno so long as you don't act in an annoying way, and Zamasu is very polite and well-spoken, so tell me why it's far-fetched to believe he could manipulate Zeno...

[Skar]

The story also implied he doesn't care. He didn't care about Majin Buu destroying countless galaxies throughout the universe and wiping out most of the Kais in U7, and he doesn't care now about Moro threatening to consume all life in U7.

We don't know how long Buu and Moro lasted before they were sealed. What you're arguing is that they could've successfully wiped out all life in U7 regardless of how long it would take and Zeno would never find out which we know is unlikely. You've said that Zeno wouldn't find out then that he wouldn't care but Zamasu relying solely on either of these possibilities doesn't indicate he had a very thought out plan. If he really thought he could manipulate Zeno, it would've been nice if he mentioned that and not leave us to guess what he might do.

[SupremeKai25]

The story also implied he doesn't care. He didn't care about Majin Buu destroying countless galaxies throughout the universe and wiping out most of the Kais in U7, and he doesn't care now about Moro threatening to consume all life in U7.

We don't know how long Buu and Moro lasted before they were sealed. What you're arguing is that they could've successfully wiped out all life in U7 regardless of how long it would take and Zeno would never find out which we know is unlikely. You've said that Zeno wouldn't find out then that he wouldn't care but Zamasu relying solely on either of these possibilities doesn't indicate he had a very thought out plan. If he really thought he could manipulate Zeno, it would've been nice if he mentioned that and not leave us to guess what he might do.

Buu existed since time immemorial, No? He would alternate between long cycles of destruction and long cycles of hibernation, he wiped out many galaxies throughout the universe, and Zeno did nothing, nor did he ever think of erasing Buu while he was hibernating. As for Moro, he consumed around 320 planets of their life, meaning that he must have been rampaging across the universe for quite a while.

Actually Zamasu's plan was very thought-out. As I said before, Zeno's intervention was an anomaly. You wanted to remain focused on the story, and in the story there is no indication that Zeno would've eventually noticed that the Gods were gone -- and even if he did, that he would trace it all back to Zamasu (remember that Goku is the one who told him about Zamasu, Zeno on his own couldn't figure this out). So Zeno erased Zamasu only because Goku summoned him through a magic button that an alternate timeline's Zeno gave him. But as you can imagine, Zamasu could have never thought of this outcome, he simply didn't have a way to figure this out. Not only Goku was dead in the Future timeline, but Zamasu couldn't know that Present Goku had become friends with Present Zeno, and therefore had been given the button. So really, from his perspective it's understandable why he would never mention or be concerned about Zeno.

[Skar]

Buu existed since time immemorial, No? He would alternate between long cycles of destruction and long cycles of hibernation, he wiped out many galaxies throughout the universe, and Zeno did nothing, nor did he ever think of erasing Buu while he was hibernating. As for Moro, he consumed around 320 planets of their life, meaning that he must have been rampaging across the universe for quite a while.

Being unaware or not getting involved with one universe's problems doesn't mean he's not going to care about someone threatening all life in the multiverse. He showed up when Beerus and Champa were holding a tournament and not doing their jobs. He held his own tournament and only intended to eliminate the universes with low mortal scores. It was a test in the anime but manga didn't imply he was going to eliminated the four except universes depending on the wish so I'm not sure which was Toriyama's idea. In both cases, he showed some care because he either wanted to test mortals or didn't care what the wish was and still wanted to keep the universes that were better managed. It's clear he doesn't care that much but there's a big difference between that and arguing he doesn't care at all.

So really, from his perspective it's understandable why he would never mention or be concerned about Zeno.

See I can accept that because you're no longer claiming Zamasu had a secret backup plan to deal with Zeno that we were never told about. It still means that Zamasu only hoped that Zeno would never find out but we the audience should know it's unlikely based on other arcs. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that since it's not uncommon for a villain to think they'll succeed if they defeat the heroes but the audience is aware there exist other characters in that story that would eventually deal with the threat if the heroes fail.

[SupremeKai25]

Buu existed since time immemorial, No? He would alternate between long cycles of destruction and long cycles of hibernation, he wiped out many galaxies throughout the universe, and Zeno did nothing, nor did he ever think of erasing Buu while he was hibernating. As for Moro, he consumed around 320 planets of their life, meaning that he must have been rampaging across the universe for quite a while.

Being unaware or not getting involved with one universe's problems doesn't mean he's not going to care about someone threatening all life in the multiverse. He showed up when Beerus and Champa were holding a tournament and not doing their jobs. He held his own tournament and only intended to eliminate the universes with low mortal scores. It was a test in the anime but manga didn't imply he was going to eliminated the four except universes depending on the wish so I'm not sure which was Toriyama's idea. In both cases, he showed some care because he either wanted to test mortals or didn't care what the wish was and still wanted to keep the universes that were better managed. It's clear he doesn't care that much but there's a big difference between that and arguing he doesn't care at all.

So really, from his perspective it's understandable why he would never mention or be concerned about Zeno.

See I can accept that because you're no longer claiming Zamasu had a secret backup plan to deal with Zeno that we were never told about. It still means that Zamasu only hoped that Zeno would never find out but we the audience should know it's unlikely based on other arcs. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that since it's not uncommon for a villain to think they'll succeed if they defeat the heroes but the audience is aware there exist other characters in that story that would eventually deal with the threat if the heroes fail.

But he didn't care, otherwise he would've dealt with Majin Buu himself. By citing the Tournament of Destroyers, you shot yourself in the foot. Because in that Tournament, Zeno sees that the Destroyers are not doing their job at all, and even admits they are terrible and incompetent and should be replaced, but doesn't do anything because he doesn't care. As for the ToP, he was willing to erase ALL universes in existence if the winner made a selfish wish, which means he doesn't care about mortals, otherwise he'd understand that 1 mortal being selfish doesn't mean that literally everyone should be erased. But since Zeno is a stupid kid who doesn't care about using his brain, he thinks that one mortal making the wrong wish should doom everyone else

So really it's not a surprise that Zeno not only didn't care about Zamasu wiping out all the Gods in all the universe -- but straight up had no clue that happened.

See I can accept that because you're no longer claiming Zamasu had a secret backup plan to deal with Zeno that we were never told about.

I mean, he most likely did, and I explained why, but since you don't believe it unless it's literally stated in the show, I didn't bother arguing that further. We don't need to be told about everything, after all, otherwise what's even the point of theories and speculation? Imagine how boring everything would be if a show left nothing up to the imagination.

Also define "audience", because I watched DBS and I knew that Zeno would never pose a threat to Zamasu unless Goku literally forced him to intervene. Which is, you know, what happened.

Let alone the fact that you still haven't explained how exactly that's an inconsistency or retcon. Since, you know, Zamasu indeed acknowledges the existence of Zeno, so it's not like the writers forgot about it.

[Skar]

As for the ToP, he was willing to erase ALL universes in existence if the winner made a selfish wish, which means he doesn't care about mortals, otherwise he'd understand that 1 mortal being selfish doesn't mean that literally everyone should be erased. But since Zeno is a stupid kid who doesn't care about using his brain, he thinks that one mortal making the wrong wish should doom everyone else

Well I said I wasn't sure what Toriyama intended since the test wasn't in the manga. Either way he cared enough to have a test in one continuity and spare a few universes in the other. I think you're still missing my point. If you really believe Zeno has zero concern over the multiverse, there's still the fact that he destroyed six universes over some minor annoyance. All the gods even the ones who do their jobs fear Zeno because they know what he could potentially do if he gets too upset.

You're offering every conceivable theory including some that seem to conflict with each other to explain why Zamasu is still smart for having no counter against Zeno when the story makes it clear that Zeno should be a major concern and obstacle because everyone who knows what Zeno is capable of fears him. Hearts wasn't exactly the most developed villain but he wanted to free the multiverse by killing the gods and at least knew he had to get rid of Zeno somehow to truly achieve that goal.

Let alone the fact that you still haven't explained how exactly that's an inconsistency or retcon. Since, you know, Zamasu indeed acknowledges the existence of Zeno, so it's not like the writers forgot about it.

I think in your efforts to defend Zamasu you completely missed that I never claimed it was an inconsistency in the first place. I said his actions make sense if you consider that he was an apprentice and still learning about the universe so what others considered inconsistencies established later I thought it was likely he just rushed his plan and wasn't aware of them.

[SupremeKai25]

If you really believe Zeno has zero concern over the multiverse, there's still the fact that he destroyed six universes over some minor annoyance.

This doesn't make sense. Zeno destroying 6 entire universes, Gods included, proves he doesn't care.

You're offering every conceivable theory including some that seem to conflict with each other

I never contradicted myself.

when the story makes it clear that Zeno should be a major concern and obstacle because everyone who knows what Zeno is capable of fears him.

Zamasu isn't everyone. Don't lump him with the masses.

I think in your efforts to defend Zamasu you completely missed that I never claimed it was an inconsistency in the first place. I said his actions make sense if you consider that he was an apprentice and still learning about the universe so what others considered inconsistencies established later I thought it was likely he just rushed his plan and wasn't aware of them.

And yet when I gave you an hypothetical backup plan Zamasu could've used against Zeno, you shrugged it off immediately because "it's headcanon". Funny how you can speculate stuff though.

[Skar]

I never contradicted myself.

You said Zamasu had a plan to manipulate Zeno, Zamasu was sure Zeno wouldn't care if he found out, or that Zamasu had no way of knowing Zeno would ever find out. That's fine if you want to believe one or all of these explanations but I'm not sure which one you actually believe might've been intended. The third is the most likely in my opinion.

And yet when I gave you an hypothetical backup plan Zamasu could've used against Zeno, you shrugged it off immediately because "it's headcanon". Funny how you can speculate stuff though.

I was trying to come up with a theory based on the information we were given. The theory was only that he was an apprentice and still learning in order to explain why he seemed to be unaware about what most of the other gods knew. Zamasu was surprised that mortals could surpass the Kaioshin and be close to the power of the GoDs. If he was aware that the GoDs were mortals themselves and eventually replaced then he probably wouldn't have been as shocked with Goku's power enough to steal his body without considering there could be stronger mortals out there. Since all the gods fear Zeno, it's possible Zamasu wasn't aware of his history and why they fear him so Zamasu never considered what would happen if he was caught or didn't think it would've been a big deal.

I doublechecked and before Goku received Zeno's button, Beerus told him not to say anything about Goku Black or Zeno might destroy the universe(s). When Goku asked if they can get the Grand Priest to help instead, Whis said the Grand Priest would report it to Zeno and also confirmed that Zeno could destroy the universes. It was already explained to the audience what the likely outcome would've been once Zeno finds out about Zamasu while Zamasu himself might not have taken it into consideration since he seemed so sure of his success once he killed the other gods.

[SupremeKai25]

I never contradicted myself.

You said Zamasu had a plan to manipulate Zeno, Zamasu was sure Zeno wouldn't care if he found out, or that Zamasu had no way of knowing Zeno would ever find out. That's fine if you want to believe one or all of these explanations but I'm not sure which one you actually believe might've been intended. The third is the most likely in my opinion.

Why cant it be all three? Zamasu is not too concerned with Zeno because he knows that he does not care about mortal and godly lives that much, which means he is very unlikely to intervene or to confront him anyway. However, since Zamasu is very methodical and paranoid, he would come up with a backup plan just in case. So he would have an explanation or justification ready. See his behavior when Goku and co. show up in ep. 58-59, he instantly puts on a facade and pretends to be a good, innocent guy who means no harm. This is who Zamasu is, someone very conniving and deceitful.

I was trying to come up with a theory based on the information we were given.

Which is also what I did. Is it not a fact that Zamasu is methodical and careful? This is the person who literally wished for immortality and went into a completely different timeline to make sure his plan could succeed. Is it not a fact that Zamasu is very conniving and manipulative? He was able to trick Goku into thinking he was a harmless good guy. He was able to trick Gowasu into thinking he genuinely understood his lessons. So then do you not agree that Zamasu would likely be able to trick Zeno as well?

It was already explained to the audience what the likely outcome would've been once Zeno finds out about Zamasu while Zamasu himself might not have taken it into consideration since he seemed so sure of his success once he killed the other gods.

You are ignoring the fact that Future Zeno is not Present Zeno. If Zamasu killed Goku and co., and Zeno somehow found out about his actions, no one would be around in the Future timeline to snitch on him. That is my point since the beginning. Since Zamasu is not an idiot who would say "It is me Zeno, I did it, now kill me!", then why are you jumping to the conclusion that Zeno would recognize Zamasu as the culprit? Especially when, as we literally see in ep. 67, he had no clue about who caused all that destruction.

So No, just because Present Zeno would erase Zamasu (because Goku and Whis literally told him who the culprit is) does not mean Future Zeno would also do it, since they are under different circumstances.

[Skar]

Why cant it be all three? Zamasu is not too concerned with Zeno because he knows that he does not care about mortal and godly lives that much, which means he is very unlikely to intervene. However, since Zamasu is very methodical and paranoid, he would come up with a backup plan just in case. So he would have an explanation or justification ready (see his behavior when Goku and co. show up in ep. 58-59, he instantly puts on a facade and pretends to be a good, innocent guy who means no harm. This is who Zamasu is, someone very conniving and deceitful).

To be honest, it feels like you kept offering a new theory each time I wasn't convinced by one of them. You really wouldn't have to go this far if there was any implication on what he planned to do which is my point here. Hearts had a similar goal to Zamasu but the story clearly explains he had a plan to try and get rid of Zeno so theories like "maybe Zeno won't ever notice", "maybe Zeno won't care in case he ever does notice" or "maybe he has a secret backup plan that the story didn't bother to mention" aren't necessary. You can usually tell how well explained something in the story by the number of different fan theories that exist because no explanation was given.

You are ignoring the fact that Future Zeno is not Present Zeno. If Zamasu killed Goku and co., and Zeno somehow found out about his actions, no one would be around in the Future timeline to snitch on him. That is my point since the beginning. Since Zamasu is not an idiot who would say "It is me Zeno, I did it, now kill me!", then why are you jumping to the conclusion that Zeno would recognize Zamasu as the culprit? Especially when, as we literally see in ep. 67, he had no clue about who caused all that destruction.

You have a lot of theories but argue against what's clearly stated . Beerus and Whis said he could destroy the universes if he found out or if the Grand Priest notified him. They're not implying Zeno would only target the culprit or even needs to know who he was. I'm pretty sure they mean that either Zeno finding out someone was causing this trouble would get him angry enough to risk entire universes. Beerus and Whis were aware of this because they've witnessed it before so I'm saying Zamasu may not have known this was a possibility.

[SupremeKai25]

Why cant it be all three? Zamasu is not too concerned with Zeno because he knows that he does not care about mortal and godly lives that much, which means he is very unlikely to intervene. However, since Zamasu is very methodical and paranoid, he would come up with a backup plan just in case. So he would have an explanation or justification ready (see his behavior when Goku and co. show up in ep. 58-59, he instantly puts on a facade and pretends to be a good, innocent guy who means no harm. This is who Zamasu is, someone very conniving and deceitful).

To be honest, it feels like you kept offering a new theory each time I wasn't convinced by one of them. You really wouldn't have to go this far if there was any implication on what he planned to do which is my point here. Hearts had a similar goal to Zamasu but the story clearly explains he had a plan to try and get rid of Zeno so theories like "maybe Zeno won't ever notice", "maybe Zeno won't care in case he ever does notice" or "maybe he has a secret backup plan that the story didn't bother to mention" aren't necessary. You can usually tell how well explained something in the story by the number of different fan theories that exist because no explanation was given.

You are ignoring the fact that Future Zeno is not Present Zeno. If Zamasu killed Goku and co., and Zeno somehow found out about his actions, no one would be around in the Future timeline to snitch on him. That is my point since the beginning. Since Zamasu is not an idiot who would say "It is me Zeno, I did it, now kill me!", then why are you jumping to the conclusion that Zeno would recognize Zamasu as the culprit? Especially when, as we literally see in ep. 67, he had no clue about who caused all that destruction.

You have a lot of theories but argue against what's clearly stated . Beerus and Whis said he could destroy the universes if he found out or if the Grand Priest notified him. They're not implying Zeno would only target the culprit or even needs to know who he was. I'm pretty sure they mean that either Zeno finding out someone was causing this trouble would get him angry enough to risk entire universes. Beerus and Whis were aware of this because they've witnessed it before so I'm saying Zamasu may not have known this was a possibility.

Then the theory "Zamasu rushed his plan" is also not necessary, since at no point do the writers ever try to make fun of Zamasu's plan or indicate that it was rushed.

Since we know that Zamasu planned to restore the universes to a pristine and utopian state, prove Zeno would've found out about Zamasu before he did that. Quantify how long it would take for him to notice.

See, you're arguing with complete hypotheticals as well.

[Skar]

Then the theory "Zamasu rushed his plan" is also not necessary, since at no point do the writers ever try to make fun of Zamasu's plan or indicate that it was rushed.

Since we know that Zamasu planned to restore the universes to a pristine and utopian state, prove Zeno would've found out about Zamasu before he did that. Quantify how long it would take for him to notice.

See, you're arguing with complete hypotheticals as well.

I know Zamasu is your favorite antagonist but I have no bias in favor or against him and I'm treating it like any other arc. This isn't some minor detail that the author might've overlooked and biggest obstacle to the villain's plan should be acknowledged like with Vegeta and Hearts otherwise I assume Zamasu never took Zeno into consideration.

What do you want me to prove? The story makes it clear that Zeno could destroy universes if he found out about Zamasu or if he was notified by the Grand Priest. We're not given any other possibilities or further detail. Your hypotheticals go against that information because nothing implies that Zeno might have a different reaction than what Beerus and Whis mentioned or that Zamasu was hoping for it. There isn't anything revealed in a following arc that support your hypotheticals because we learn each universe has a mortal score which means they would likely notice if a score dropped to almost zero.

[SupremeKai25]

Then the theory "Zamasu rushed his plan" is also not necessary, since at no point do the writers ever try to make fun of Zamasu's plan or indicate that it was rushed.

Since we know that Zamasu planned to restore the universes to a pristine and utopian state, prove Zeno would've found out about Zamasu before he did that. Quantify how long it would take for him to notice.

See, you're arguing with complete hypotheticals as well.

I know Zamasu is your favorite antagonist but I have no bias in favor or against him and I'm treating it like any other arc. This isn't some minor detail that the author might've overlooked and biggest obstacle to the villain's plan should be acknowledged like with Vegeta and Hearts otherwise I assume Zamasu never took Zeno into consideration.

What do you want me to prove? The story makes it clear that Zeno could destroy universes if he found out about Zamasu or if he was notified by the Grand Priest. We're not given any other possibilities or further detail. Your hypotheticals go against that information because nothing implies that Zeno might have a different reaction than what Beerus and Whis mentioned or that Zamasu was hoping for it. There isn't anything revealed in a following arc that support your hypotheticals because we learn each universe has a mortal score which means they would likely notice if a score dropped to almost zero.

I want you to prove that Zeno would intervene before Zamasu turned the cosmos into the golden utopia he envisioned. Zamasu was the only villain in all of Dragon Ball who didn't want to destroy things for the sake of it, nor did he want to rule over a wasteland. Many times throughout the arc he mentions how he will remake everything into a beautiful paradise. So then tell me why you are jumping to the conclusion that Zamasu couldn't do all of this before Zeno noticed, at which point Zeno wouldn't find the world ugly anymore (since, you know, the reason why he decided to erase everything was because he found the cosmos ugly and ruined). Otherwise accept that your argument is also an hypothetical, because you are assuming Zamasu would take too long to remake the cosmos.

And yes Zamasu is my favourite character, but people in here just want to find any possible reason to bash him. Let alone the fact that people call his plan "rushed", when at least he had a plan. The villains of Z had no plan at all, the villain of the ongoing arc Moro has no plan at all, they are all brutes who rush into action without thought.

[Skar]

I want you to prove that Zeno would intervene before Zamasu turned the cosmos into the golden utopia he envisioned. Zamasu was the only villain in all of Dragon Ball who didn't want to destroy things for the sake of it, nor did he want to rule over a wasteland. Many times throughout the arc he mentions how he will remake everything into a beautiful paradise. So then tell me why you are jumping to the conclusion that Zamasu couldn't do all of this before Zeno noticed, at which point Zeno wouldn't find the world ugly anymore (since, you know, the reason why he decided to erase everything was because he found the cosmos ugly and ruined). Otherwise accept that your argument is also an hypothetical, because you are assuming Zamasu would take too long to remake the cosmos.

What you're asking me is that I should prove one of your many hypotheticals can't happen when you're not providing evidence that any of them are possible in the first place. The gods who do their jobs also fear Zeno because they know what he's capable of if he gets upset. Beerus and Whis said Zeno could destroy universes if he found out about Zamasu. There's only one conclusion I could reach from that information. If the gods who perform the job he intends are sometimes at risk, I'm not given a reason to assume a Kaioshin undermining his rule and doing what he wants will get a free pass especially since Beerus and Whis only gave one outcome once Zeno found out.

And yes Zamasu is my favourite character, but people in here just want to find any possible reason to bash him. Let alone the fact that people call his plan "rushed", when at least he had a plan. The villains of Z had no plan at all, the villain of the ongoing arc Moro has no plan at all, they are all brutes who rush into action without thought.

Seriously? King Piccolo wanted to eliminate the world tournament contestants and Vegeta wanted to obtain immortality to defeat Freeza. Even a throwaway video game villain like Hearts acknowledged what he wanted to do about Zeno. There is no conspiracy against Zamasu or people looking for reasons to bash him. I don't even know how that makes sense. It's a bare minimum expectation that a villain explain what they wanted to do about the strongest beings who could get in their way since every villain in the series who had a plan had done that.

[SupremeKai25]

I want you to prove that Zeno would intervene before Zamasu turned the cosmos into the golden utopia he envisioned. Zamasu was the only villain in all of Dragon Ball who didn't want to destroy things for the sake of it, nor did he want to rule over a wasteland. Many times throughout the arc he mentions how he will remake everything into a beautiful paradise. So then tell me why you are jumping to the conclusion that Zamasu couldn't do all of this before Zeno noticed, at which point Zeno wouldn't find the world ugly anymore (since, you know, the reason why he decided to erase everything was because he found the cosmos ugly and ruined). Otherwise accept that your argument is also an hypothetical, because you are assuming Zamasu would take too long to remake the cosmos.

What you're asking me is that I should prove one of your many hypotheticals can't happen when you're not providing evidence that any of them are possible in the first place. The gods who do their jobs also fear Zeno because they know what he's capable of if he gets upset. Beerus and Whis said Zeno could destroy universes if he found out about Zamasu. There's only one conclusion I could reach from that information. If the gods who perform the job he intends are sometimes at risk, I'm not given a reason to assume a Kaioshin undermining his rule and doing what he wants will get a free pass especially since Beerus and Whis only gave one outcome once Zeno found out.

No, I am asking you to prove your hypothetical point about Zeno intervening against Zamasu. The only reason why Zeno decided to erase Zamasu and the cosmos is because he didn't like how everything around him was ruined and destroyed, but since we know Zamasu did not want to keep everything ruined but wanted to remake everything as a utopia (he says this several times), now prove that Zeno A) Would want to erase the new cosmos that Zamasu wants to create B) Would intervene before Zamasu created said new cosmos.

I rewatched the episode, and Whis never says that. It's Beerus who warns Goku not to say anything about Zamasu, and he's not worried about Zamasu's actions themselves, he's worried about time travel. He says, and I quote, "if Grand Zeno learns that people have been messing with time, he will get angry and you know what he'll do then". He never says "If Zeno learns someone has been wiping out all mortals he will get angry". And Beerus is not exactly a reliable source anyway, he freaks out whenever he hears Zeno's name to the point that he cannot think logically. In the U6 tournament, he was terrified of Goku just holding hands with Zeno, when in the end nothing happened, and Zeno actually enjoyed meeting Goku, contrary to what Beerus thought.

Seriously? King Piccolo wanted to eliminate the world tournament contestants and Vegeta wanted to obtain immortality to defeat Freeza. Even a throwaway video game villain like Hearts acknowledged what he wanted to do about Zeno. There is no conspiracy against Zamasu or people looking for reasons to bash him. I don't even know how that makes sense. It's a bare minimum expectation that a villain explain what they wanted to do about the strongest beings who could get in their way since every villain in the series who had a plan had done that.

Everything Piccolo and Vegeta did, Zamasu also did and more. Zamasu wiped out the other Gods so that no one could actively defy him, he wished for immortality, and he destroyed the Super Dragon Balls so that no one could undo his actions.

Furthermore, Zamasu acknwoledged Zeno and mentioned how he was keeping his actions secret so that Zeno wouldn't notice (I'm not sure why you keep saying that the writers forgot about addressing Zeno when they didn't). And since you keep mentioning that videogame promotional anime, Zamasu in Heroes mentioned how he wanted to manipulate Hearts into getting rid of Zeno for him, meaning that he left nothing to chance.

[Skar]

I rewatched the episode, and Whis never says that. It's Beerus who warns Goku not to say anything about Zamasu, and he's not worried about Zamasu's actions themselves, he's worried about time travel. He says, and I quote, "if Grand Zeno learns that people have been messing with time, he will get angry and you know what he'll do then". He never says "If Zeno learns someone has been wiping out all mortals he will get angry". And Beerus is not exactly a reliable source anyway, he freaks out whenever he hears Zeno's name to the point that he cannot think logically. In the U6 tournament, he was terrified of Goku just holding hands with Zeno, when in the end nothing happened, and Zeno actually enjoyed meeting Goku, contrary to what Beerus thought.

I forgot if it was in the anime but in the manga Goku asks Whis if they could get Grand Priest to deal with Goku Black. Whis says that if the news was reported to Zeno through the Grand Priest that Zeno could destroy the universe. You're going to all this effort to offer hypothetical outcomes but once again that's the only one we're given in the story. I don't recall any character supporting Zamasu's cause so the theory that Zeno might be the only one if he doesn't discover Zamasu before then and that both Beerus and Whis were wrong also isn't really a convincing argument.

Furthermore, Zamasu acknwoledged Zeno and mentioned how he was keeping his actions secret so that Zeno wouldn't notice (I'm not sure why you keep saying that the writers forgot about addressing Zeno when they didn't). And since you keep mentioning that videogame promotional anime, Zamasu in Heroes mentioned how he wanted to manipulate Hearts into getting rid of Zeno for him, meaning that he left nothing to chance.

Sure but that's the difference I'm talking about. Zamasu wanted to use Hearts to get rid of Zeno which was given in the story. If you were to have a discussion about that topic, you would immediately share the page or scene when they explain what they plan to do about Zeno. You don't need any headcanon or endless theories for several comments because the story took the time to offer an explanation. I'm sure you can agree there's a difference between the story providing you the explanation as what the villain plans to do against their biggest obstacle and you having to come up multiple theories because one wasn't given.

[LoganForkHands73]

All this does kind of make me want Hearts to be "canonised", or at least in spirit through a character brought in with a similar motivation. As much as Heroes is derided, Hearts was set up to be a very interesting antagonist for Dragon Ball, I could tell from the moment he was revealed. As he had the poor luck of the draw to debut in Heroes, he wasn't used to his full potential and is mostly yet another moustache-twirling villain, but he had an interesting premise.

Whether or not Zamasu's plan was took all factors such as Zeno into account, I like the idea that he somehow influenced a mortal being to have a similar ideology. The fact that he directly works with Cyber-Zamasu or whatever in Heroes was breathtakingly ludicrous (I guess getting completely erased from reality is "just a flesh wound", nothing some robotic bits can't fix ), but perhaps his origin could be reworked to still tie into Zamasu but in an antagonistic way. He could be a lone survivor from a race that Black and Zamasu wiped out during their rampage, causing him to swear vengeance on the gods and declare mortal supremacy, becoming a dangerous cult figure. So in a way, Zamasu truly does transcend reality and become immortal as a hateful ideology, albeit one with the opposite intention.

As good as the Zamasu arc was in my opinion, it came at an awkward time and is perhaps the arc with the fewest visible lasting consequences. The Tournament of Power carries over Future Zeno and of course Gowasu, and a lot of people say that Future Zeno was pivotal to the arc taking place, but the arc was set up all the way back in the Universe 6 arc. Goku was inevitably going to remind Present Zeno of it at some point either way. There's some thematic cohesion what with the Pride Troopers' similar obsession with justice but it's never really addressed. As such, the Zamasu arc feels like one big tonal inconsistency against the rest of Super.

[SupremeKai25]

I mean it's not like Hearts' plan was so smart or intricate, in fact it was very lacking. Even if Hearts recognized the threat of Zeno, he completely glossed over the mortal warriors of Universe 6, 7, 11. Hearts' plan would've failed miserably if it wasn't for Fused Zamasu protecting him against everyone while he was inside the universe seed. So just like you can commend Hearts for making plans to deal with Zeno, at the same time it's not like he thought of everything. Hearts didn't even make sure that Zamasu was reliable or trustworthy, in fact Zamasu planned to backstab him and had his own agenda. It was a complete gamble to let someone like that protect his seed.

Zamasu might not have had a defined strategy to deal with Zeno, but regardless he recognized the threat he posed and tried to remain hidden, knowing that Zeno seldom leaves his palace to check on the universes. At least Zamasu didn't completely ignore the mortal warriors, in fact he chose a timeline in which all Z Fighters except for Trunks were wiped out by the Androids, so that his plan could proceed much more smoothly.