Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

[Matches Malone]

I think they could’ve avoided making Baby such a clear cut bad guy, though.

I definitely agree with this. If anything I think he should've been a good guy thinking he was doing the right thing by saving the universe from the saiyans.

[WittyUsername]

I think they could’ve avoided making Baby such a clear cut bad guy, though.

I definitely agree with this. If anything I think he should've been a good guy thinking he was doing the right thing by saving the universe from the saiyans.

Ironically, there are a couple of moments in the FUNimation dub where the script writers seemed to at least try and suggest that Baby views himself as the good guy. Specifically, there’s at least one point in the dub where Baby claims that he’s getting rid of things like war and prejudice by turning everyone into Tuffles/Tsufurians.

[ArmenianPepsi]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I gave GT it's fair shot to win me over, but I just don't care for it. It just never captured my attention the same way DB or Z did and either left me bored or totally baffled. Though I will give credit for the quite nice animation and score, but that's about where my praises end.

The only thing I can say that I truly love from GT is the concept of the Shadow Dragons arc, and it's finale, but only because I'm not a fan of Z's ending at all.

However I would imagine that the fact that people here are willing to have these open discussions about GT rather than just collectively yelling "GT is the scorn of humanity!" is in of itself a sign of changing hearts?

[Matches Malone]

I would imagine that the fact that people here are willing to have these open discussions about GT rather than just collectively yelling "GT is the scorn of humanity!" is in of itself a sign of changing hearts?

The scorn of humanity (DB edition) is currently heroes.

[MCDaveG]

I like Baby arc as well and watching it as a kid after Buu arc, Baby was kind of Buu villain, but with different origins, different mechanics and then when mixed with Vegeta and changing forms, it was actually really cool back then and it kept me interested...

So I have fond memories watching it, it is just this part about the Luud cult, that makes it a bit weird - tough you can just use the ''Machine Mutants'' explanation. But really, the weird lion, Cardinal not being mastermind, but his whip!!! was, but then we learn that that Dolltaki character was a mastermind behind all of that BUT! then it is Dr. Myu... whom created the Baby BUT! then we learn that Baby was actually before and created Dr. Myu???

This was really a bad writing and altough, it was kinda rehash of the Androids Arc, even tough we didn't see any flashbacks, it was clear that this is Dr. Gero, he has hatred for Goku because he destroyed RR Army and created androids to stop him... easy.
But with the Baby, we have this tidbit ala Rise of Skywalker (Sith magic, cloning?) on how the Tuffles were destroyed by Saiyans, so they made a mutant from king's cells with quick shot of the king lying on table, resembling Final Form Baby Vegeta (the hair, and probably even the face, as it doesn't look much like Vegeta anymore) + this weird chain of command plot twists.

For the rest of GT, I didn't like or understood the thing with 17... how he was built in hell at all and it was kind of a weird bridging the gap of Baby Arc with this weird Dragon Ball crackling foreshadowing - so, this arc was so so even for me as a kid.

Shadow Dragons - Awesome concept, great introduction, but the actual dragons and adventure around them was lame and boring, until Goku met the 4-star Dragon with solar powers and his ice brother plus Li Shenrong in the end, that's where it caught up.
But overall, I like this concept of defeating lesser ''generals'' since Saint Seiya, to obtain progress in the story before being able to tackle the main bad guy, so even tough, most of the dragons were boring, I did enjoy the arc and see it probably for better than it was.

In the end, I was pissed that Goku has vanished and I never liked much the epilogue scene with Goku and Vegeta's offspring...
Because, I was hooked up on the show, to see Goku returning back to being an adult!!! I was dissapointed in the end as a kid and GT had this depressing aura around for me as a kid.
I actuall liked GT more when it was part of Budokai 3 as it had the overall Z vibes of the rest of the game and some what if fights that weren't in the show, it kinda redeemed it

[ABED]

The problem isn't so much the chain of command as it is that they kept doing the same twist that there was a guy behind the guy behind the guy...

[MCDaveG]

The problem isn't so much the chain of command as it is that they kept doing the same twist that there was a guy behind the guy behind the guy...

Exactly... thanks for putting it into less words
It was pretty weird and tough I didn't remembered that watching it as a kid, but the Baby twist with Myu was still pretty weird ever since!
Had hard time to put that together.

[Cursed Lemon]

Agreed with MasenkoHA, GT is pretty much forgotten about rather than legitimately weighed in on.

[Dr. Casey]

It's been generally forgotten, as Masenko and Lemon said. It's still thought of poorly by most people, but the sentiments towards it have 'improved' in the sense that it's viewed with just detached apathy rather than the impassioned, seething hatred from the 90s and first half of the 2000s. Which makes sense since most things, or at least something as unimportant as a bad TV show, won't stir up strong feelings in people when it's close to 25 years old.

There's a lot of black sheeps which have been vindicated by history and which people look at more favorably than when they were new, but DBGT isn't really one of them. Legend of Dragoon has gone from being viewed as a generic FF7 clone to being considered a cult classic that was dumped on too much back in its day, the Star Wars prequels have gone from being almost universally reviled to having an increasing number of people go "Their heart was in the right place" and compare them favorably to the sequels, but the only real in-roads GT has made is that sentiments towards it have gone from fiery hatred to "eh, it sucks but we don't really care anymore."

[Anonymous Friend]

Just like anything in existance, the further you moved away from it and have newer things to compare it too, the better it might seem. GT was never completely bad. There were a lot of good ideas, just maybe poorly executed. Now we have Super around to compare as the newest thing and for some GT isn't looking as bad as it seemed.

I've never hated GT. I've watched it three times. The first time it aired on Cartoon Network. As the bricks released. And a rewatch of the bricks. There are definitely bad parts to them. I've also watched the Star Wars Prequels at least six times each as well.

There's plenty of things that go unappreciated in their own times to become favorites later on many years later. Stuff like Showgirls and Demolition Man got slammed when they released, but are now cult favs. I see people talking positively about games like Dragon Age II and ME:Andromeda.

[pepd]

I've seen some use Super to dismiss GT based on canonicity and others value more GT because of Super quality, with no overwhelming majority, but most new DB fans watch first (if not only) Super.

The scorn of humanity (DB edition) is currently heroes.

What if SDBH's real purpose is to make GT and DBS anime look good in comparison

[Grimlock]

Hardly. I don't think we need Dragon Ball Heroes to see how bad Dragon Ball Super is. Heroes would only start telling a story in 2016, by that time we already had the retellings followed by a tournament and things just kept getting worse after that.

[Matches Malone]

What if SDBH's real purpose is to make GT and DBS anime look good in comparison

Spoiler:

I don't think we need Dragon Ball Heroes to see how bad Dragon Ball Super is.

The biggest issue I have with Super is that despite having double the amount of episodes GT had, it felt like it somehow accomplished less.

69 episodes were dedicated to tournaments only, which is already more than GT's total count, 27 episodes were dedicated to the movie retellings, & 14 episodes were dedicated to filler/in between arc episodes. That's 110 episodes.

To give a comparison to DB/Z, by EP131, the original DB had finished the King Piccolo arc and the mini filler training arc that followed. For Z, despite the terrible pacing, Piccolo was in the middle of fighting Gero at EP131. With Kai, we were 2 episodes away from Ssj3's first appearance. It really goes to show that the episode count of a show isn't an indicator of its content, as you can have a 130+ episode series like Super, and still feel shortchanged.

[SupremeKai25]

What if SDBH's real purpose is to make GT and DBS anime look good in comparison

It's very sad that GT can look good only next to a videogame promotional anime of 10-minutes long episodes though, isn't it? Especially since Heroes never takes itself seriously, while GT was trying so hard to be good. Sad.

[MCDaveG]

If we go into Super vs GT...

I like Super more story-wise and content wise but GT has hands down better production quality.
It looks better, sounds better... and it has huge nostalgia value for me as I was seeing it as a kid on TV after Z without not knowing what happens next.

For me, Super is the sequel to Z I would totally love as a kid and I am happy with it (with minor gripes and the crap art and animation kinda ruins the first half of the series) and GT is this nostalgia thing, that I like for the atmosphere and memories.

But even as a kid, I hated that Goku turned to be a kid to never return back and the series was dark and ended on sour note, so Super wins with me, as it is the kind of characters I like and more Z stories that I missed as a kid

[Matches Malone]

It's very sad that GT can look good only next to a videogame promotional anime of 10-minutes long episodes though, isn't it?

At least GT can look good, which is more than I can say for Super, as that looks bad compared to just about anything. You can basically put random anime names in a box and anything you blindly pick out will be better.

[SupremeKai25]

It's very sad that GT can look good only next to a videogame promotional anime of 10-minutes long episodes though, isn't it?

At least GT can look good, which is more than I can say for Super, as that looks bad compared to just about anything. You can basically put random anime names in a box and anything you blindly pick out will be better.

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIk6aPdEWHg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6x0s5SnL84&t=9s

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcz516-x1wI

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeRF_0DDCg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcVVzsjUtg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0R9V2CdJSo

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENMEacPB7ao

And yes, there are a lot of times when Super doesn't look good or even looks bad, just like every other anime. In every anime you watch, there will be scenes or entire episodes that look like trash.

If the anime really looked like garbage, I guarantee you that there wouldn't have been huge crowds watching it in city centres.

[Matches Malone]

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

I should've used different wording. I was talking about the show as a whole, including the writing, ideas, characterizations, etc. Super's fights are definitely a highlight of the show, and the only reason I'd recommend it over GT, as GT's fights are pretty much non-existent.

[Mad Swami]

It's very sad that GT can look good only next to a videogame promotional anime of 10-minutes long episodes though, isn't it?

At least GT can look good, which is more than I can say for Super, as that looks bad compared to just about anything. You can basically put random anime names in a box and anything you blindly pick out will be better.

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIk6aPdEWHg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6x0s5SnL84&t=9s

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcz516-x1wI

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeRF_0DDCg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcVVzsjUtg

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0R9V2CdJSo

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENMEacPB7ao

And yes, there are a lot of times when Super doesn't look good or even looks bad, just like every other anime. In every anime you watch, there will be scenes or entire episodes that look like trash.

If the anime really looked like garbage, I guarantee you that there wouldn't have been huge crowds watching it in city centres.

I think those fights are great, but overall I think aesthetically Super is dog. Super's designs are fairly awful. The T.O.P ring is the most boring location in the entire franchise. The desolate city grew a bit tiresome, nothing in RoF looked good, and even some of the character designs in the T.O.P (including and somewhat targeting Jiren) were pretty bad.

[Mad Swami]

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

I should've used different wording. I was talking about the show as a whole, including the writing, ideas, characterizations, etc. Super's fights are definitely a highlight of the show, and the only reason I'd recommend it over GT, as GT's fights are pretty much non-existent.

I like Gt's art style and aesthetic way more, but god it does not have any real good fights. All it has is the Nouva Shenron one honestly, which is a great one IMO