Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Matches Malone · Post by **Matches Malone** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:53 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:33 pm12 episodes is "an extended period of time" to you? You can't have a lot of favourite settings then.

The arc was 21 episodes long. I know it switched locations but the majority of the action took place there.

SupremeKai25 · Post by **SupremeKai25** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:02 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:53 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:33 pm12 episodes is "an extended period of time" to you? You can't have a lot of favourite settings then.
The arc was 21 episodes long. I know it switched locations but the majority of the action took place there.

I'll do a quick episode count for you:

49-50-51: Centered around the Present timeline, the first Goku vs. Black fight takes place in the present city;
52-53-54-55: Centered completely around the Present timeline, particular attention is given to the Kai world of U10 and Planet Babari;
58-59: Centered around the Present timeline, as the protagonists deal with Present Zamasu.
The episodes that are mostly focused on the Future timeline are 47-48-56-57-60-61-62-63-64-65-66-67. That's 12 episodes.

So No, a lot of the action and major events in the first half of the arc take place mostly in the Present timeline, whether it be in the main city or on Zamasu's planet.

I could easily make the same argument for the Tournament of Power arc. The actual tournament doesn't start until episode 96, before that you have a Recruitment mini-arc that showcases a lot of different planets from all around the multiverse. And even the actual Tournament of Power stage still feels dynamic, because it doesn't stay the same for the entire time. After Hit's defeat the void turns green, then again after Toppo becomes a Destroyer the void turns purple/pink.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:06 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:07 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:51 am Sure Gt's battle sites were pretty repedative but I found them more pleasing personally. Also I thought the green sky helped make the location drab and boring. However I agree, Gowasu and Zamasu's world was nice looking, so was Beerus'. However in terms of new locations, that might be all I really enjoyed. Actually I did like the nameless planet from the U6 arc. That place was good.
The green sky was a unique and creative way to convey the idea of a dystopian future, which Z for example never truly did. In the HIstory of Trunks special, the city didn't look nearly as ruined and devastated. It was still sunny, there were many people around, etc... meanwhile, in the Future Trunks arc, the city is completely destroyed, the sky is perpetually clouded (when Trunks uses his sword of friendship, you can see that the planet was actually perpetually shrouded in darkness), and there is no one around -- the people literally have to hide in the subways of the city. This is how I picture a true dystopian scenario:

And so far, the Future Trunks arc was the only arc in the franchise that gave off this feeling of complete hopelessness and destruction. That's why the setting of the Future Trunks arc is actually one of its main strengths in my opinion. I don't know why that bored you, since the arc was very short anyway. It only lasted 21, that's not much at all for a Dragon Ball arc. Plus many portions of the arc were spent on Zamasu's world.

As for the rest, I agree, I loved the world of Gowasu and Zamasu, and I also enjoyed the various planets of the other gods (like the chocolate world of U11, or the beautiful metropolis of U2). There were many creative settings in Super, especially in the Tournament of Power arc which focused a lot on the other universes.

The green sky never changed and neither did their location. That's what made it tiresome for me. Plus that arc feels really long just due to its poor quality. Which is a shame, Zamasu is a great concept but was completely wasted. I also would disagree at it conveying complete hopelessness. We only see one city. We never see if the plantlife is even around. They only stay in destroyed West city with that ugly sky and it's soo ugly.

The U11 and U2 places were nice. Didn't really amount to much but cool. I also enjoy the really advanced city that Hit was in when he confronted Frost. However, the T.O.P is actually the most boring location in DB history. It's so uninspired. I wish it was like an amalgam of the different universes locations. Maybe one end the city from U2 is there, the other end is a high tech cannon from U3. I don't know something cool.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm

Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

We never see if the plantlife is even around.

I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:40 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

We never see if the plantlife is even around.
I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.

No it's not just "SUPER BAD"
There are good things about Super, the Zamasu arc is just riddled with issues. How is this any different than you saying Namek grew boring?

Actually you're right, there's that one part where Trunks and Mai head into a perfectly fine forrest with clear blue skies and Zamasu and Goku Black are just chilling. Why isn't there more of that location? Fighting in a forrest isn't done too much, and in cannon only once as a small part of the Beerus fight. Also why did the two of them retreat there?

Yes story matters, but craft the story in a way where I am not bored by the enviorment. Namek was able to do that with differen't characters to follow and an actually good story.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:59 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

We never see if the plantlife is even around.
I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.
No it's not just "SUPER BAD"
There are good things about Super, the Zamasu arc is just riddled with issues. How is this any different than you saying Namek grew boring?

Actually you're right, there's that one part where Trunks and Mai head into a perfectly fine forrest with clear blue skies and Zamasu and Goku Black are just chilling. Why isn't there more of that location? Fighting in a forrest isn't done too much, and in cannon only once as a small part of the Beerus fight. Also why did the two of them retreat there?

Yes story matters, but craft the story in a way where I am not bored by the enviorment. Namek was able to do that with differen't characters to follow and an actually good story.

For the reasons i mentioned. Namek is a planet that we see for a while and the topology is too similar over the entire planet We don't know where things are and there isn't even nighttime. It is the same thing for a long time and only after Freeza destroys the core do we get change.

Why we don't get more out of the forest is that there aren't people there.The reason they retreat there is because they like the world, but they don't like humans.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:01 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:59 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.
No it's not just "SUPER BAD"
There are good things about Super, the Zamasu arc is just riddled with issues. How is this any different than you saying Namek grew boring?

Actually you're right, there's that one part where Trunks and Mai head into a perfectly fine forrest with clear blue skies and Zamasu and Goku Black are just chilling. Why isn't there more of that location? Fighting in a forrest isn't done too much, and in cannon only once as a small part of the Beerus fight. Also why did the two of them retreat there?

Yes story matters, but craft the story in a way where I am not bored by the enviorment. Namek was able to do that with differen't characters to follow and an actually good story.
For the reasons i mentioned. Namek is a planet that we see for a while and the topology is too similar over the entire planet We don't know where things are and there isn't even nighttime. It is the same thing for a long time and only after Freeza destroys the core do we get change.

Why we don't get more out of the forest is that there aren't people there.The reason they retreat there is because they like the world, but they don't like humans.

Sooo your reasons work but mine don't got it pal.

And second, you act like the heroes cant move the battle or anything. That should be their first instinct.

SupremeKai25 · Post by **SupremeKai25** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

We never see if the plantlife is even around.
I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.
No it's not just "SUPER BAD"
There are good things about Super, the Zamasu arc is just riddled with issues. How is this any different than you saying Namek grew boring?

Actually you're right, there's that one part where Trunks and Mai head into a perfectly fine forrest with clear blue skies and Zamasu and Goku Black are just chilling. Why isn't there more of that location? Fighting in a forrest isn't done too much, and in cannon only once as a small part of the Beerus fight. Also why did the two of them retreat there?

Yes story matters, but craft the story in a way where I am not bored by the enviorment. Namek was able to do that with differen't characters to follow and an actually good story.

They did fight in that forest. In the same episode where Mai attempts to kill Black, Trunks engages the duo in the forest around their cabin.

Black and Zamasu retreated there because they enjoy the lush and idyllic panorama. Regardless, before Future Zamasu joined the fray, Black would spend his time overlooking the ruined city.

I also agree with ABED that it makes complete sense for the majority of the battle to take place in the ruins of West City, because that's the place where the protagonists live, and so the average viewer is emotionally attached to it in a way.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:01 pm Sooo your reasons work but mine don't got it pal.

And second, you act like the heroes cant move the battle or anything. That should be their first instinct.

Your feelings are valid. You find those places boring but don't give reasons why.

The heroes can't just move the battle wherever they want. Unlike Vegeta who would be willing to move the fight to get a better one, Zamasu is not only more powerful than the heroes, he's on a mission to murder people. It makes sense he'd be where the people are. Plus the climax revolves around Trunks saving the people he cares about and they are in the city.

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:15 pm

As far as locations go, the Tournament of Power is okay, but spending over 30 episodes there did not do it any favors. I also don’t think the passage of time was really that significant, since the place was never particularly vibrant looking to begin with.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:17 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:01 pm Sooo your reasons work but mine don't got it pal.

And second, you act like the heroes cant move the battle or anything. That should be their first instinct.
Your feelings are valid. You find those places boring but don't give reasons why.

The heroes can't just move the battle wherever they want. Unlike Vegeta who would be willing to move the fight to get a better one, Zamasu is not only more powerful than the heroes, he's on a mission to murder people. It makes sense he'd be where the people are. Plus the climax revolves around Trunks saving the people he cares about and they are in the city.

I gave reasons. There is no change to the environment, they don't play around with it enough. They just fight in the same area. They don't ever fight really inside of a building except when Vegeta drives Goku Black through one. There was also no added objectives outside of "punch bad guys so they stop". Why wasn't moving the people to safety at least a mission of sorts? It's cool when there are more things at play than just a dry fight.

Why not? They were all relative for a while. Why not when they came back and Vegeta was stronger than Goku Black did the fight location not move? Why not just have a stratagey where Goku uses IT to transport them away.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:19 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:20 pm Some of this doesn't feel like genuine criticisms as much as "SUPER, BAD!"

The location when they were in the future didn't change because West City is the one with the people we are invested in. It's about story not pure aesthetics.

I think we do when Mai tries to kill Zamasu and Goku Black.
No it's not just "SUPER BAD"
There are good things about Super, the Zamasu arc is just riddled with issues. How is this any different than you saying Namek grew boring?

Actually you're right, there's that one part where Trunks and Mai head into a perfectly fine forrest with clear blue skies and Zamasu and Goku Black are just chilling. Why isn't there more of that location? Fighting in a forrest isn't done too much, and in cannon only once as a small part of the Beerus fight. Also why did the two of them retreat there?

Yes story matters, but craft the story in a way where I am not bored by the enviorment. Namek was able to do that with differen't characters to follow and an actually good story.
They did fight in that forest. In the same episode where Mai attempts to kill Black, Trunks engages the duo in the forest around their cabin.

Black and Zamasu retreated there because they enjoy the lush and idyllic panorama. Regardless, before Future Zamasu joined the fray, Black would spend his time overlooking the ruined city.

I also agree with ABED that it makes complete sense for the majority of the battle to take place in the ruins of West City, because that's the place where the protagonists live, and so the average viewer is emotionally attached to it in a way.

But it would also make sense for Goku and Vegeta to attempt to relocate the fight. When they have the power to, they never try.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:17 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:01 pm Sooo your reasons work but mine don't got it pal.

And second, you act like the heroes cant move the battle or anything. That should be their first instinct.
Your feelings are valid. You find those places boring but don't give reasons why.

The heroes can't just move the battle wherever they want. Unlike Vegeta who would be willing to move the fight to get a better one, Zamasu is not only more powerful than the heroes, he's on a mission to murder people. It makes sense he'd be where the people are. Plus the climax revolves around Trunks saving the people he cares about and they are in the city.
I gave reasons. There is no change to the environment, they don't play around with it enough. They just fight in the same area. They don't ever fight really inside of a building except when Vegeta drives Goku Black through one. There was also no added objectives outside of "punch bad guys so they stop". Why wasn't moving the people to safety at least a mission of sorts? It's cool when there are more things at play than just a dry fight.

Why not? They were all relative for a while. Why not when they came back and Vegeta was stronger than Goku Black did the fight location not move? Why not just have a stratagey where Goku uses IT to transport them away.

Namek's environment doesn't change until nearly the last 10 episodes of a 70 episode story.

And in the Saiyan arc there is also not an objective outside of hitting the bad guys until they stop.

I also don’t think the passage of time was really that significant, since the place was never particularly vibrant looking to begin with.

Not the point. It wasn't a vibrant place that gets wrecked over the course, but it does reflect the passage of time and the the fighters. The ring and fighters become more disheveled as the story progresses.

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:40 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 pm Not the point. It wasn't a vibrant place that gets wrecked over the course, but it does reflect the passage of time and the the fighters. The ring and fighters become more disheveled as the story progresses.

That’s pretty standard for Dragon Ball fights.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:42 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 pm Not the point. It wasn't a vibrant place that gets wrecked over the course, but it does reflect the passage of time and the the fighters. The ring and fighters become more disheveled as the story progresses.
That’s pretty standard for Dragon Ball fights.

How the hell do you tell with a mountain range? Then there's Namek, the fight just moves to the next rocky outcrop that looks the same.

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:44 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 pm
Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:17 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 pm Your feelings are valid. You find those places boring but don't give reasons why.

The heroes can't just move the battle wherever they want. Unlike Vegeta who would be willing to move the fight to get a better one, Zamasu is not only more powerful than the heroes, he's on a mission to murder people. It makes sense he'd be where the people are. Plus the climax revolves around Trunks saving the people he cares about and they are in the city.
I gave reasons. There is no change to the environment, they don't play around with it enough. They just fight in the same area. They don't ever fight really inside of a building except when Vegeta drives Goku Black through one. There was also no added objectives outside of "punch bad guys so they stop". Why wasn't moving the people to safety at least a mission of sorts? It's cool when there are more things at play than just a dry fight.

Why not? They were all relative for a while. Why not when they came back and Vegeta was stronger than Goku Black did the fight location not move? Why not just have a stratagey where Goku uses IT to transport them away.
Namek's environment doesn't change until nearly the last 10 episodes of a 70 episode story.

And in the Saiyan arc there is also not an objective outside of hitting the bad guys until they stop.

I also don’t think the passage of time was really that significant, since the place was never particularly vibrant looking to begin with.
Not the point. It wasn't a vibrant place that gets wrecked over the course, but it does reflect the passage of time and the the fighters. The ring and fighters become more disheveled as the story progresses.

As I said, Namek saga kept it fresh with hopping between characters.

Also the Saiyan saga sure only was that, however it's also short and sweet. It was a build up to the confrontation. There were things like King Kai's training, the dynamic between Gohan and Piccolo. Even the fight went through scenery change.

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:46 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:42 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:40 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 pm Not the point. It wasn't a vibrant place that gets wrecked over the course, but it does reflect the passage of time and the the fighters. The ring and fighters become more disheveled as the story progresses.
That’s pretty standard for Dragon Ball fights.
How the hell do you tell with a mountain range?

Off the top of my head, it happened with the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, it happened with Namek and it happened with the Cell Games.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:52 pm

Yes the story on Namek progresses but not the environment.

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:44 pm Also the Saiyan saga sure only was that, however it's also short and sweet.

Both Piccolo arcs and the Tenkaichi Budokais.

I agree that being short and sweet was to the Saiyan arc's benefit.

Off the top of my head, it happened with the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, it happened with Namek and it happened with the Cell Games.

I never claimed it was unique but it is a solid storytelling device. And it only happened on Namek the tail end. They were on Namek for nearly 70 episodes and only the last 10 of them did the location change.

WittyUsername · Post by **WittyUsername** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:55 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:52 pmI never claimed it was unique but it is a solid storytelling device. And it only happened on Namek the tail end. They were on Namek for nearly 70 episodes and only the last 10 of them did the location change.

Does it really matter that the location got more destroyed as time went on, if it was never really an interesting location to begin with?

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:02 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:52 pm Yes the story on Namek progresses but not the environment.

Mad Swami wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:44 pm Also the Saiyan saga sure only was that, however it's also short and sweet.
Both Piccolo arcs and the Tenkaichi Budokais.

I agree that being short and sweet was to the Saiyan arc's benefit.

Off the top of my head, it happened with the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, it happened with Namek and it happened with the Cell Games.
I never claimed it was unique but it is a solid storytelling device. And it only happened on Namek the tail end. They were on Namek for nearly 70 episodes and only the last 10 of them did the location change.

But the story helps distract from the enviorment. At least in my opinion.

Piccolo arcs were fine for me for a few reasons. First one Piccolo Daiamo had minions and there was great drama. The second one was more of an epilogue and sets up Piccolo Jr. well.

As for the Tenkaichi Budokais, they had the novelty of being tournaments and there was always something Goku took away from it.

Kanzenshuu

Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

Re: Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?