"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Skar]

Interview with V-Jump editor (and mascot for public appearances) “Victory” Uchida, on editing Dragon Ball Super:
Source: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/13 ... 3715084289

Spoiler:

That was an interesting interview! It's cool that these draft previews are intended to be cliffhangers. I think MUI burning out or Goku keeps beating up Moro until he willingly goes back to prison are unlikely. It could be Goku wants to have a clear conscious and give a Moro a chance before deciding to finish him off at his full strength.

[BWri]

So what you are saying he'd rather kill him à la Cell, as in while Moro is standing and fighting instead of kneeling and begging because Goku couldn't stomach doing someone in like that? I mean that is perfectly in-character for Goku and I could definitely see that being his reason instead something like him hoping to prolong a good fight. This interpretation sure is more palatable, but the long list of unnecessary call-backs have made me wary of such moments.

I think what Goku would rather do would be to have Moro take him up on his offer of a peaceful resolution, but I don't believe he sincerely expects that.

Given what we have so far (I could always be wrong), my reading is that Goku simply wants to defeat Moro as a fighter rather than an executioner, especially given the latter was down and pleading. He created a scenario in which--if he's taken up on the offer, great!--but in the far more likely case he isn't, Moro can be put down without regret and while fighting. His total control over the situation allows him to make that move, whereas previous cases in which he's gone for or encouraged either executionary or unsportsman-like kills (Cell, Zamasu), he was very much not in control and desperately needed to end the situation when he could.

This would be the most bad-ass way to end things and the most narratively satisfying. I'm thinking you'll be proven right for the most part, but there'll be some sort of wrench in the plans. I hope they just play it straight in just the way you've described. OH THE SATISFACTION!

**It would also be a surprisingly sophisticated take on the true benefits of attaining strength, the control you mentioned. It's something that's not often seen in DB outside of a few key moments.

[emperior]

Nice to have confirmation that the manga will continue after this arc. It was already quite obvious it was going to continue but at least it’s now confirmed.

I am actually more interested in what’s coming next for the new arc than in the climax of the current one. And I am actually liking the climax, but 2 years of this arc has been a little too much. It definitely overstayed its welcome.

It also seems like Toriyama is being more and more involved with the manga, especially after he also stepped in to correct a few Goku drawings in the last two chapters.
Although I also have a feel that the manga is now being written in a more monthly way, without a fully finished draft, similarly to how Toriyama used to write his manga.

I really hope that the next arc will come from an original draft by Toriyama. And will it finally be set after the End of Z? Will Freeza and Broly and the fighters from other universes appear again?
I am super curious to see what they are coming up with next.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I thought it was obvious this won't be the last arc.

Anyhow, let's hope they don't prolong the inevitable, as eventually Moro has to be killed by someone at some point. Even if it takes till February, someone will end him at least.

[SupremeKai25]

Yeah, Moro really doesn't look like "final villain" material to me at all, because he's so bland and forgettable.

For a final arc of Super, I would love to see a grand cosmic conflict in the veins of the Universal Conflict arc of Heroes:

1) Create a villainous group comprised of both former and new villains (Heroes for example brought back Fused Zamasu alongside new villains);
2) Create a new main villain with an actual personality and compelling motivations, like Hearts. Though his personality is scuffed, his reasons for bringing down Zeno are genuine and interesting;
3) Have major fights happen all over the cosmos and involve the other universes too. The Heroes arc involves Jiren, Toppo, Hit, etc. as the fighting takes place in various universes (6,7,11...);
4) Involve big lore reveals like Zalama's whereabouts or the purpose/backstory of Zeno.

[HeroR]

This is classic Goku.

Remember that it’s the same guy who back on Namek was willing to leave the fight with Freeza cause he proved his superiority. And Freeza was still standing and had killed Krillin just a few minutes earlier.

By Goku’s perspective, compared to Namek Freeza Moro is a nice guy. He hasn’t killed anyone valuable to Goku.
Also Goku has now achieved UI, the ultimate power. He is very confident that no matter what, Moro can’t do anything against him.

But yeah, most likely Moro will have some other ace up his sleeve.

In the case Freeza, that was Cruel Mercy. He saw letting Freeza live with his pride torn apart than worse than killing him. He didn’t do because he issues with killing him.

Also, as others pointed out, he didn’t need to heal Moro for him to be arrested and unlike Freeza on Namek, he directly attacked his home if you want to compare.

So this classic Goku since it shows a very shallow level of understanding of Goku’s actions on Namek and the Cell Saga.

[BWri]

10ish pages of people complaining about things they have no context for is a good reminder that from year to year, this place never changes.

We've done this song and dance consistently, month after month, for years at this point. Yet it never sinks in to just wait for the chapter to be out. You don't have to say anything; the thread can stay dead for a couple days.

It's best to wait to view the whole chapter before going nuclear and I think that the Toyotaro hatred is oftentimes irrational and overblown which I double--no--triple down on now that we know that he has Toriyama-san and Uchida looking over his work. And we can't forget the mandates from his corporate overlords.

That said, unless there's a topic lock, I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating or having opinions on what's presented in the draft. It's just a better idea to temper one's expectations until the full chapter comes out. People just go too hard sometimes lol. All things considered, it's not a big deal. Some complaining, some whining, some whinging, many gripes, but in the end we get the truth of things.

When you discuss out of context spoilers for so long, the only thing you're doing is spreading misinformation to people who aren't as enfranchised as you might be.

The bulk of what's discussed is not really misinformation--I see where you're coming from--but what's being spread is just speculation. The speculation from not knowing things but trying to guess at them with the limited information present. This type of speculation even seems to be encouraged by the editors "and marvels at the cunning of cutting the preview of on Page 8" which is in reference of them revealing the twist of the preview on page 9 of the official chapter. They are wanting to encourage excitement with the readers and excitement encourages discussion, word of mouth interest, and sales. The reaction has been negative, which could backfire, but bad press is oftentimes good press so who knows.

I think there are many misinformed opinions, many times myself included, but information like what's shared in this recent v-jump interview helps combat that.

[Gt91]

Nice to have confirmation that the manga will continue after this arc. It was already quite obvious it was going to continue but at least it’s now confirmed.

I am actually more interested in what’s coming next for the new arc than in the climax of the current one. And I am actually liking the climax, but 2 years of this arc has been a little too much. It definitely overstayed its welcome.

It also seems like Toriyama is being more and more involved with the manga, especially after he also stepped in to correct a few Goku drawings in the last two chapters.
Although I also have a feel that the manga is now being written in a more monthly way, without a fully finished draft, similarly to how Toriyama used to write his manga.

I really hope that the next arc will come from an original draft by Toriyama. And will it finally be set after the End of Z? Will Freeza and Broly and the fighters from other universes appear again?
I am super curious to see what they are coming up with next.

I agree with everything.
I think the Moro arc will end next month, with the new arc starting in december (with new info at the jump festa).

[batistabus]

In the case Freeza, that was Cruel Mercy. He saw letting Freeza live with his pride torn apart than worse than killing him. He didn’t do because he issues with killing him.

Also, as others pointed out, he didn’t need to heal Moro for him to be arrested and unlike Freeza on Namek, he directly attacked his home if you want to compare.

So this classic Goku since it shows a very shallow level of understanding of Goku’s actions on Namek and the Cell Saga.

Moro said "Help me...", do you think Goku would kill someone begging for their life?

The while Freeza betrayed Goku immediately after being healed, Goku survived the situation. As for Cell, while things didn't work out smoothly, Goku's wish for Gohan to reach the next level of Super Saiyan was indeed fulfilled. So even if this seems foolish based on past events, we should trust that Goku knows what he's doing.

[The Undying]

In the case Freeza, that was Cruel Mercy. He saw letting Freeza live with his pride torn apart than worse than killing him. He didn’t do because he issues with killing him.

You're mixing up two entirely different chapters/scenes here.

Goku initially quits the fight because he's satisfied that Freeza's pride is shattered, but then shows mercy/sympathy at several points following his withdrawal - including (but not limited to) telling Freeza to train and grow stronger, showing conflicted leniency when Freeza was dying and begging for help, hoping Freeza will "learn the value of life", feeling pity when he finally did "kill" him, and later telling Trunks that he was too soft on him.

None of these moments are indicative of Goku wanting Freeza to live only so he could suffer.

Goku lent Freeza his energy and spared him the second time largely for the exact reason cited two chapters ago in Super.

[LoganForkHands73]

For all the talk of wanting Moro to die already, would Goku executing him on the spot while he's begging and helpless really be a satisfying Dragon Ball fight conclusion? Especially for a full chapter, from a big cliffhanger? I mean, maybe if you're so inclined to just hate Moro, but most Dragon Ball conflicts end on some kind of epic, tense, climactic note, even the more lowkey ones. Even when we go way back to the very first Dragon Ball arc, Oolong wishing for panties from Shenron may not be conventionally "epic", but it came from a moment of high stakes tension as he does it just in the nick of time to prevent Pilaf's wish for world domination. Goku executing Moro without him being able to put up a fight... there's zero dramatic tension in that. With how this scenario was set up (whether or not it should have been set up this way is another discussion that can't be pinned on this one chapter draft), this was the only conclusion.

"Alright Moro, I'm gonna beat the shit out of you, that's right I'm gonna kick you to death slowly and painfully! Come on down Jaco, and you Krillin, let's all kick this geriatric goat-man to death, that's right, boot him right in the ribs. Krillin, specifically hold a Senzu just out of his reach so he can see how helpless he is to stop this brutal lynching."

Very heroic.

There's a lot of comparisons to Goku vs. Piccolo Jr, but fewer comparisons to what I feel is the more salient comparison, which is Goku vs. Freeza on Namek. (edit: I was writing this out before I saw people were doing exactly this on this very page, lol)

[Gt91]

From the interview: "we must not dwell on what happens on page 8, this will in fact be a chapter full of twists"

So, let's wait and see.

Full interview in japanese

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBmBr2L ... =emb_title

[BWri]

I have been saying for months that Toyo's editor is equally to blame for Toyo's writing and Toriyama is also showing that he isn't a very good editor.

Right! I've been saying it for years now. Modern DB needs really good editors and a loremaster (fact checker) or team of them on the payroll. George R.R. Martin consults with his superfans, those who run the Westeros website and Toei/Shueisha should do the same. I had my epiphany about Toriyama-san's editors back at the start of Super, I think around the time of the RoF movie. So much in that was so half-baked and downright erroneous (Frieza's impressive never-before-seen 1,000,000 PL ) that I could just feel the lack of a guiding hand. And it hit me like a ton of bricks that Toriyama-san's creative brilliance is at its best when steered by a good editor. All the previous meddling from editors steered DB in an overall more compelling direction. After RoF, I felt this lack of guidance more and more with each passing arc. It's the same these days, but now it's both Toriyama-san and Toyotaro that could benefit from it.

[FortuneSSJ]

Right! I've been saying it for years now. Modern DB needs really good editors and a loremaster (fact checker) or team of them on the payroll. George R.R. Martin consults with his superfans, those who run the Westeros website and Toei/Shueisha should do the same.

Didn't know Martin had something like that. We definitely could benefit from that in this franchise. Some inconsistencies are so easy to avoid.

[Kinokima]

From the interview: "we must not dwell on what happens on page 8, this will in fact be a chapter full of twists"

So, let's wait and see.

Full interview in japanese

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBmBr2L ... =emb_title

So it will probably be better than it seems but also I probably still won’t like it because I am not happy with how modern DB uses twists lol

[SupremeKai25]

I think something major will happen with Beerus. So far he hasn't been doing anything, but the writers must have included him for some reason, right? Maybe he'll try to take matters into his own hands or even challenge Goku. Maybe the next arc or movie is about a Goku vs. Beerus rematch, which happens precisely because Beerus is not happy with how Goku handled the whole Moro situation.

I mean, I want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, and will refuse to believe that they just randomly put Beerus in this arc because they needed someone to narrate the fight.

[Tai Lung]

In the case Freeza, that was Cruel Mercy. He saw letting Freeza live with his pride torn apart than worse than killing him. He didn’t do because he issues with killing him.

You're mixing up two entirely different chapters/scenes here.

Goku initially quits the fight because he's satisfied that Freeza's pride is shattered, but then shows mercy/sympathy at several points following his withdrawal - including (but not limited to) telling Freeza to train and grow stronger, showing conflicted leniency when Freeza was dying and begging for help, hoping Freeza will "learn the value of life", feeling pity when he finally did "kill" him, and later telling Trunks that he was too soft on him.

None of these moments are indicative of Goku wanting Freeza to live only so he could suffer.

Goku lent Freeza his energy and spared him the second time largely for the exact reason cited two chapters ago in Super.

goku doesn't tell him anything about training ... goku gives him energy doubting his decision but seeing him in such a sorry state "cut in half" gives him a little energy so he can escape ...
Although later they talk about that it is no longer worth that because the planet will explode before anyone does.
http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-b ... ball13.jpg
http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-b ... nball4.jpg
http://myanx.com/mangas-online/dragon-b ... nball5.jpg

honestly it seems like a symbolic gesture of mercy ... goku wasn't going to help him escape he just didn't want to see him die in such a miserable way

[Miracles]

Interview with V-Jump editor (and mascot for public appearances) “Victory” Uchida, on editing Dragon Ball Super:
Source: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/13 ... 3715084289

Spoiler:

Good news. That this arc is at the climax and we are moving on to another story.

[The Undying]

goku doesn't tell him anything about training ...

Incorrect. He specifically tells Freeza to go off and learn new tricks if he really wants to settle the score later.

After Goku gives him energy, both characters also acknowledge that Freeza would have no issue escaping the planet and surviving in space without a ship. He didn't need to "help him escape".

[Tai Lung]

goku doesn't tell him anything about training ...

Incorrect. He specifically tells Freeza to get his strength back and learn new tricks if he really wants to settle the score later.

After Goku gives him energy, both characters also acknowledge that Freeza would have no issue escaping the planet and surviving in space without a ship. He didn't need to "help him escape".

that was before it's cut in half .... at that time he had already decided to leave the living to live with the shame of having been defeated ...


Frieza tells him that it is not worth escaping because the planet is going to explode before ... and he make it clear that his spaceship was ruined by vegeta but goku really doesn't care about that