"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

The interview mentions that something big happens on page 9, which is the page after the leaks ends.

Either MUI runs out and Moro’s attack actually lands. Or Goku murks him in one attack. I’m hoping for the latter.

Goku punching his head off will be the only way I can look past that god awful senzu move he made.

[HeroR]

I have been saying for months that Toyo's editor is equally to blame for Toyo's writing and Toriyama is also showing that he isn't a very good editor.

Right! I've been saying it for years now. Modern DB needs really good editors and a loremaster (fact checker) or team of them on the payroll. George R.R. Martin consults with his superfans, those who run the Westeros website and Toei/Shueisha should do the same. I had my epiphany about Toriyama-san's editors back at the start of Super, I think around the time of the RoF movie. So much in that was so half-baked and downright erroneous (Frieza's impressive never-before-seen 1,000,000 PL ) that I could just feel the lack of a guiding hand. And it hit me like a ton of bricks that Toriyama-san's creative brilliance is at its best when steered by a good editor. All the previous meddling from editors steered DB in an overall more compelling direction. After RoF, I felt this lack of guidance more and more with each passing arc. It's the same these days, but now it's both Toriyama-san and Toyotaro that could benefit from it.

Dragon Ball doesn't need a super fan, otherwise Toyo would fit the bill.

Also, Toriyama's most strict editor liked Resurrection 'F', which surprised Toriyama.

[HeroR]

But, yeah, there's also the argument that, why the fuck even give him a senzu bean in the first place?! I never expected him to kill Moro after Moro was helpless and begging for mercy. Of course Goku wouldn't kill him, and there could have been any number of logical reasons for Goku to give Moro a senzu bean, but for his reason to be, "Moro, I'll restore you to full power if you promise you won't hurt anyone ever again and imprison yourself for eternity," I mean that is LAUGHABLE! Are you kidding me?!

I personally don’t see how anyone can look at the same pages I saw and think that Goku really expected Moro to take him up on the peaceful out, but I guess we’ll find out in a few days.

Goku’s reaction on Page 8 is not that of a man who is shocked his offer was refused. It’s a “Sigh, well, I thought so” one.

On Namek, he genuinely expects Freeza to run off somewhere and is surprised and disappointed when he doesn’t. Here, I think the reaction that would have surprised him would have been Moro actually cooperating. It’s (probably) just giving him one last character test, since Goku has the upper hand by such a large margin, even though he’s expecting him to blow it.

Thing is, I don't see the point of the 'test'. He could have let Moro be arrest and tell him that he hope that he would reform so the patrol won't kill him. That is basically what Roshi tried to do with the prisoner girls.

[SupremeKai25]

Even if Goku wanted Moro to atone by turning himself over to the Galactic Patrol, he's still being an idiot. Simple reason: Goku is not immortal. Who guarantees him that Moro won't become a threat again once Goku is no longer around to beat him?

Typical saiyans, all brawns, no brain.

[Super Saiyan God]

I just cant understand how MUI goku were unable to beat Super Full Power Jiren without engraged but able to defeat Moro in his very full power.

[Jiren The Alpha]

I just cant understand how MUI goku were unable to beat Super Full Power Jiren without engraged but able to defeat Moro in his very full power.

Because Jiren is MANLY and Moro is a GOAT.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Even if Moro did turn himself in there is always the risk of him showing up again when Goku and Vegeta are dead. All he has to do is outlive them by a century and break himself out. Sparing him would just knock the problem into another generation's hands, and they might not be equipped to deal with threats like Moro.

[goku the krump dancer]

I can't believe Goku was actually trending on twitter because of this, you'd think this was some real life celebrity scandal lol.

[Matches Malone]

I can't believe Goku was actually trending on twitter because of this, you'd think this was some real life celebrity scandal lol.

Vegeta was trending on the day chapter 61 released as well. I think it happens every month or so depending on the event taking place.

[Mister_Popo]

I think it's pretty clear the Senzu Bean trick is just a teaser to catch our attention.
There is something behind that all.
Taking literal conclusions just based on one teaser is very preliminary and unneeded.

And no, i don't mean innocent speculation here about 'what could happen', i mean saying in advance something is bad writing when the chapter isn't out yet, is basically discrimination of the author and unfair. I haven't always been Toyotaros greatest fan, but every chapter i give him a new chance. I wait with my conclusion till after the chapter is out.

[Ziegander]

I think it's pretty clear the Senzu Bean trick is just a teaser to catch our attention.
There is something behind that all.
Taking literal conclusions just based on one teaser is very preliminary and unneeded.

And no, i don't mean innocent speculation here about 'what could happen', i mean saying in advance something is bad writing when the chapter isn't out yet, is basically discrimination of the author and unfair. I haven't always been Toyotaros greatest fan, but every chapter i give him a new chance. I wait with my conclusion till after the chapter is out.

I mean... writing an idiotic scene just to grab headlines and manufacture outrage just so you can pull a twist, that's a by-the-book bait and switch and, should in all cases be literally textbook bad writing. It's by definition bad writing. It's the literary equivalent of click bait and I don't think it's a mistake by anyone to call it out as such.

[DBNamek]

For the whole Senzu thing, I personally think it should have never happened. Whatever twist or reveal that is gonna happen, I still don't know why the DB staff think it was a good idea to give Moro a senzu. There really isn't any reason to give Moro a senzu.

[Mister_Popo]

I think it's pretty clear the Senzu Bean trick is just a teaser to catch our attention.
There is something behind that all.
Taking literal conclusions just based on one teaser is very preliminary and unneeded.

And no, i don't mean innocent speculation here about 'what could happen', i mean saying in advance something is bad writing when the chapter isn't out yet, is basically discrimination of the author and unfair. I haven't always been Toyotaros greatest fan, but every chapter i give him a new chance. I wait with my conclusion till after the chapter is out.

I mean... writing an idiotic scene just to grab headlines and manufacture outrage just so you can pull a twist, that's a by-the-book bait and switch and, should in all cases be literally textbook bad writing. It's by definition bad writing. It's the literary equivalent of click bait and I don't think it's a mistake by anyone to call it out as such.

You can't analyze something correctly without context of the complete chapter.
That's bad analyzing, not bad writing.
It's fair to speculate, which happens here on the board a lot as well, or to criticize after a given work is completed.
But to give a jugdement about a work of art before it's even complete, is morally incorrect towards the artist in my opinion.

[BWri]

Dragon Ball doesn't need a super fan, otherwise Toyo would fit the bill.

We're talking about different kinds of superfans in this instance. I'm talking about people who catalogue the show, its history, locations, lore, etc. Toyotaro drew a fan manga. Either way, Dragon Ball needs a fact checker/loremaster, so the easy errors are caught, that's the point I was making. Editors are supposed to do that, but a series as longrunning as DB could use someone who specifically focuses on series continuity.

Also, Toriyama's most strict editor liked Resurrection 'F', which surprised Toriyama.

I did too, on first watch, as a standalone feature despite the errors. It's the way it was implemented into the series that's problematic. His editor might not like the Golden Freeza arc iteration of 'F'.

[Dragon Wukong]

We're talking about different kinds of superfans in this instance. I'm talking about people who catalogue the show, its history, locations, lore, etc. Toyotaro drew a fan manga. Either way, Dragon Ball needs a fact checker/loremaster, so the easy errors are caught, that's the point I was making. Editors are supposed to do that, but a series as longrunning as DB could use someone who specifically focuses on series continuity.

One would argue Toyotaro is that kind of superfan. Toyotaro will often reference even the most obscure Dragon Ball details, often subtly. Including aliens only seen in promotional material in GT, or referencing background lore from the Daizenshuu that wasn't even in other media. When it comes to actual lore, Toyotaro DOES know his stuff.

[BWri]

We're talking about different kinds of superfans in this instance. I'm talking about people who catalogue the show, its history, locations, lore, etc. Toyotaro drew a fan manga. Either way, Dragon Ball needs a fact checker/loremaster, so the easy errors are caught, that's the point I was making. Editors are supposed to do that, but a series as longrunning as DB could use someone who specifically focuses on series continuity.

One would argue Toyotaro is that kind of superfan. Toyotaro will often reference even the most obscure Dragon Ball details, often subtly. Including aliens only seen in promotional material in GT, or referencing background lore from the Daizenshuu that wasn't even in other media. When it comes to actual lore, Toyotaro DOES know his stuff.

My bad, I didn't meant to dismiss Toyotaro's knowledge of the series. I'm just saying that someone who catalogues said series knowledge is likely more knowledgeable due to their fixation being the accuracy of said knowledge, the accumulation of it, engagement with the community, and constant access to it. It helps that their passion is strictly focused on information gathering and organizing.

[Tai Lung]

We're talking about different kinds of superfans in this instance. I'm talking about people who catalogue the show, its history, locations, lore, etc. Toyotaro drew a fan manga. Either way, Dragon Ball needs a fact checker/loremaster, so the easy errors are caught, that's the point I was making. Editors are supposed to do that, but a series as longrunning as DB could use someone who specifically focuses on series continuity.

One would argue Toyotaro is that kind of superfan. Toyotaro will often reference even the most obscure Dragon Ball details, often subtly. Including aliens only seen in promotional material in GT, or referencing background lore from the Daizenshuu that wasn't even in other media. When it comes to actual lore, Toyotaro DOES know his stuff.

toyotaro acts like a "nostalgic" super fan and not a "current fan" and that's a problem ....

[Triggered Vegeta]

Moro gets Hakaid the moment he attacks Goku. Fingers crossed. Right to his damn face.

[Skar]

toyotaro acts like a "nostalgic" super fan and not a "current fan" and that's a problem ....

Could you explain the difference because I don't know why Toyotaro would be singled out here. The younger staff working on a revival years later are usually nostalgic super fans who grew up with the original which is why these include so much fan service and callbacks. If Toyotaro was replaced, it's unlikely we would get someone who isn't a super fan since I think he was chosen for how close his artstyle was to Toriyama's.

[Xeogran]

toyotaro acts like a "nostalgic" super fan and not a "current fan" and that's a problem ....

Honestly with how Toyotaro managed to remember and implement both types of Yardratians into the manga which never showed any, I'd say he is fairly knowledgeable.