"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JewyB]

After the chapter where Goku entered Completed Ultra Instinct, I felt like Toyo nailed that, the pacing, the writing, the characterizations, all perfect. I was willing to cut him a lot of slack. But he's gone way past spending that goodwill already.

So you're willing to give him almost until the next chapter? But not say, 3 more days?

[Ziegander]

I was willing to read the whole chapter before judging the senzu bean moment. Goku giving Moro a senzu bean wasn't by itself awful writing. There were plenty of avenues that Toyo could have taken that, and as I argued, and many others have argued, it was well within Goku's character to give him a senzu bean. Stupid, from an in-world standpoint? Sure, and inarguably, from our perspective, a bad move, but it could make sense to Goku and fit his character.

I didn't think we'd get such sizeable plot leaks between what we already saw ahead of the full chapter release. Now we know why Goku gave him the senzu bean, and it's just insanely DUMB, like not just dumb for Dragon Ball but dumb for Goku. It's senseless and unfathomable. That already really bothered me.

As far as Angel Moro? Yes, dozens of people have predicted, oh, he's gonna eat that arm, or reattach that arm, and then he's gonna have Angel powers. I never commented on that. I've been quietly hoping that Toyo would not do that. Because that ramps the stakes up so high that there's nowhere to take Dragon Ball beyond that point except to continue introducing new Angel-level threats and beyond Angel-level threats that Goku and the others now have to respond to. Not only that, but it makes Merus look like an idiot. He went to the trouble of slicing that arm off and breaking Moro's other two jewels but he didn't seal the third one? It's just... a hacky plot device that artificially ramps up the hype but debases the value of what he's written before it. So now to see, not only is Goku being punished for showing a villain mercy, not only is the way he went about showing mercy just indefensibly braindead, but also we're in the Angel-Tier now, which I never wanted Super to get to, at least not before they went beyond the End of Z.

But there's sure to be one hell of a spectacle now, huh? I'm just not excited. These last two reveals are a major letdown for me.

[Tai Lung]

Spoiler:

WTF is THIS???!!

Can anyone explain? Lol

It is already very very ... late to give Moro new powers ... why he did not do it before instead of stealing powers from others?

[Magnificent Ponta]

I was willing to read the whole chapter before judging the senzu bean moment.

And now you're not. Based on information that was already out there with the scans at the same time. Okay..?

it makes Merus look like an idiot. He went to the trouble of slicing that arm off and breaking Moro's other two jewels but he didn't seal the third one?

Where on Earth did you get this take from? You saw him do all three in Chapter 63. This has either come from his healed arm he lost in the last chapter, or the one that was sliced off and forgotten about,

[JulieYBM]

Very upsetting how cool that mouth cave thing is.

[Kinokima]

I was willing to read the whole chapter before judging the senzu bean moment. Goku giving Moro a senzu bean wasn't by itself awful writing. There were plenty of avenues that Toyo could have taken that, and as I argued, and many others have argued, it was well within Goku's character to give him a senzu bean. Stupid, from an in-world standpoint? Sure, and inarguably, from our perspective, a bad move, but it could make sense to Goku and fit his character.

I didn't think we'd get such sizeable plot leaks between what we already saw ahead of the full chapter release. Now we know why Goku gave him the senzu bean, and it's just insanely DUMB, like not just dumb for Dragon Ball but dumb for Goku. It's senseless and unfathomable. That already really bothered me.

As far as Angel Moro? Yes, dozens of people have predicted, oh, he's gonna eat that arm, or reattach that arm, and then he's gonna have Angel powers. I never commented on that. I've been quietly hoping that Toyo would not do that. Because that ramps the stakes up so high that there's nowhere to take Dragon Ball beyond that point except to continue introducing new Angel-level threats and beyond Angel-level threats that Goku and the others now have to respond to. Not only that, but it makes Merus look like an idiot. He went to the trouble of slicing that arm off and breaking Moro's other two jewels but he didn't seal the third one? It's just... a hacky plot device that artificially ramps up the hype but debases the value of what he's written before it. So now to see, not only is Goku being punished for showing a villain mercy, not only is the way he went about showing mercy just indefensibly braindead, but also we're in the Angel-Tier now, which I never wanted Super to get to, at least not before they went beyond the End of Z.

But there's sure to be one hell of a spectacle now, huh? I'm just not excited. These last two reveals are a major letdown for me.

I think the new Moro image is pretty cool honestly BUT I agree with Ziegander’s overall argument. The stakes are so ridiculously high now that I don’t see how they are going to get out of this without divine intervention. It feels like the F. Trunks arc all over again. And I hated that ending

The premise of Moro possibly destroying himself isn’t necessarily horrible but I feel all the training Vegeta & Goku went thru feels wasted. Both Vegeta and Goku’s fights ended with essentially making Moro more poweful. It just feels so disheartening. I just don’t like endings where the characters win not by any effort of their own but dumb luck. It just feels like nothing at all was earned here.


If something happens (and I don’t see how it is possible now) and Vegeta and Goku do earn the win together and make up for their past failures and mistakes I’ll reconsider my opinion but right now I don’t like where I expect this is leading at all.

[DevilKing99]

Like they need Whis or Zeno to solve the problem for them now.

Moro himself should have MUI.

[Xeogran]

Goku, Vegeta and Beerus teamwork would be great to see. The GoD finally accepting the Saiyans for real and working alongside them to defeat someone much stronger now. At least that's what I would write if I were in Toyotaro's place.

[GodVegetto91]

Okay guys, so here’s my theory about what may happen this chapter.

MUI Goku beats Moro 73.

Moro 73 gains Merus’ powers.

However, at the beginning he is unable to access Merus’ full actual “Angel” powers yet, (hence why we didn’t see a Halo around his neck!)

So it’s just regular Galactic Patrolman Merus’ powers that Moro 73 is using at first!

Hence why he can’t seem to overcome MUI Goku, and get the better of him!

Hence why he seems to be rage quitting!

So I am theorizing that he may get Merus’ full Angel powers (with the Halo!) later in the chapter!

Causing Goku to finally say (as the spoilers from Ryokutya already stated) “Damn this guy is too much! We can’t win, we need outside help!”

[SupremeKai25]

Toyotaro is desperately trying to recreate the high tension high stakes scenario of the Future Trunks arc, but failing miserably. We all know Moro will lose, no matter what insane power-up he gets, because the End of Z shows that everyone is alive and well and the planet is peaceful. Meanwhile the Future Trunks arc took place in the Future timeline, thus we didn't know if there would be a happy ending -- and indeed there wasn't one. This fake tension is stupid, no one's buying it.

[DevilKing99]

Goku, Vegeta and Beerus teamwork would be great to see. The GoD finally accepting the Saiyans for real and working alongside them to defeat someone much stronger now. At least that's what I would write if I were in Toyotaro's place.

At this point, they just throw in Buu, Broly, and Freeza, Moro has MUI after all now.

[OLKv3]

Toyotaro is desperately trying to recreate the high tension high stakes scenario of the Future Trunks arc, but failing miserably. We all know Moro will lose, no matter what insane power-up he gets, because the End of Z shows that everyone is alive and well and the planet is peaceful. Meanwhile the Future Trunks arc took place in the Future timeline, thus we didn't know if there would be a happy ending -- and indeed there wasn't one. This fake tension is stupid, no one's buying it.

Weird logic. If we follow this, every thing in DBS sucked besides Trunks because we knew the heroes would win

[Xeogran]

Toyotaro is desperately trying to recreate the high tension high stakes scenario of the Future Trunks arc, but failing miserably. We all know Moro will lose, no matter what insane power-up he gets, because the End of Z shows that everyone is alive and well and the planet is peaceful. Meanwhile the Future Trunks arc took place in the Future timeline, thus we didn't know if there would be a happy ending -- and indeed there wasn't one. This fake tension is stupid, no one's buying it.

Well Frieza destroyed the Earth before EoZ and nobody could've expected that

In the end this is a shonen and obviously will have a happy ending regardless of what happens. Even Trunks' timeline getting erased was done in a way he didn't show any emotions for it ( ) because he went to a duplicate one ( )

[SupremeKai25]

Toyotaro is desperately trying to recreate the high tension high stakes scenario of the Future Trunks arc, but failing miserably. We all know Moro will lose, no matter what insane power-up he gets, because the End of Z shows that everyone is alive and well and the planet is peaceful. Meanwhile the Future Trunks arc took place in the Future timeline, thus we didn't know if there would be a happy ending -- and indeed there wasn't one. This fake tension is stupid, no one's buying it.

Weird logic. If we follow this, every thing in DBS sucked besides Trunks because we knew the heroes would win

In fact I had the same complaints back in those arcs, the only difference is that previous antagonists didn't overstay their welcome like Moro, who is getting like one power-up per chapter.

[Ziegander]

I was willing to read the whole chapter before judging the senzu bean moment.

And now you're not. Based on information that was already out there with the scans at the same time. Okay..?

Uh... no. Actually. Maybe you're missing some things.

Now we've got translation of the scans that give Goku's motivations and thought process behind giving Moro a senzu, beyond showing him mercy, Goku wanted to make a deal with Moro and for Moro to promise him he would surrender to the Galactic Patrol. Given that I cannot read Japanese, no, I did not know that Goku giving the senzu bean was contingent on this exceptionally stupid idea of Moro making and keeping such a promise, especially given that he could make the promise after eating the bean but before carrying it out. It was completely unreasonable for Goku to believe anything could come out of it other than freshly full-powered Moro going on the attack again, and as such, just dumb. It's one thing to offer a begging foe mercy, or to refuse to execute such a creature, but at bare minimum, assuming Goku could just thrash Moro again anyway, at bare minimum it's just wasted time and effort.

So that's not just a dumb character moment, but it's also a pretty contrived situation devised by Toyotaro. Useless contrivances... seem like they should be called out as bad writing. No?

Now we have additional scans that we did not have a few days ago when I said I'd be interested to read the rest of the chapter.

That said contrivance is only not useless so that it can serve to facilitate yet another twist Moro power-up that doesn't serve any narrative purpose except to throw the power levels to insane new heights just furthers my diagnosis that we're headed for Papi Blanco territory. No story is being told here, despite spending two years to "tell" it. All we're doing is raising the power levels. It feels exactly like bad fan fiction.

it makes Merus look like an idiot. He went to the trouble of slicing that arm off and breaking Moro's other two jewels but he didn't seal the third one?

Where on Earth did you get this take from? You saw him do all three in Chapter 63. This has either come from his healed arm he lost in the last chapter, or the one that was sliced off and forgotten about,

Ah, sorry, I just reviewed ch. 63, I had thought he sealed all three, but then the new scan of him having a fully-functioning, unharmed jewel with Merus' powers still inside made me assume my memory must have been wrong.

But that really doesn't change my point. Okay, so Merus chopped that arm off and then sealed the jewels on Moro's head, right hand, and newly regenerated left hand. It wouldn't have been an unreasonable assumption to make that even if that severed hand were still lying around out there with a jewel inside it, if an Angel used their powers to seal these jewels now connected to their host, that this one would have been rendered inert as well. Merus didn't bother to seal it and he's the Angel that cut it off in the first place. He knew what the jewels could do and how they were used, so it's bad enough he got grabbed in the first place. If there were any danger of that jewel containing his Angel powers, you'd expect Merus to have sealed it as well. But he didn't. So he chopped it off, but then immediately forgot about it?

Yeah... makes Merus look pretty stupid. Point stands.

[BWri]

Spoiler:

WTF is THIS???!!

Can anyone explain? Lol

It is already very very ... late to give Moro new powers ... why he did not do it before instead of stealing powers from others?

Looks like a Marvel vs. Capcom boss. I dig it! If they are going to drag the fight out, I'd rather see new and creative stuff like this than more punch, punch, kick, kick, angry face.

Very upsetting how cool that mouth cave thing is.

IKR!

Moro turned himself to the cave of wonder and its just the right type of absurdity that I want from modern Dragon Ball. Give us new, give us weird, give us interestimg

Exactly. Might as well!

[DiscountDabi]

Moro turned himself to the cave of wonder and its just the right type of absurdity that I want from modern Dragon Ball. Give us new, give us weird, give us interestimg

[JewyB]

I have no complaints about Earth Mouth Moro except it should have come sooner. I wanted to see Moro fight weird, not strong.

[Tai Lung]

now that I think about them... the angels alter reality so moro "PINHEAD LARRY" has a coherent point

[Kataphrut]

Hey, we got a new candidate for Moro's level 3 in FighterZ. That's cool.

So this is how Vegeta becomes useful again, yeah? This is set up so he can use his new power and not have it be a total wash.