"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

We seem to get direct confirmation from Goku that Moro is the strongest person he's ever fought: "that's a real shame, cuz I never came across anyone as tough as you".

I also like Whis seeming genuinely frustrated/concerned.

I found it a cool chapter but Moro becoming one with the planet is...yet another out of nowhere powerup for him that's kind of just out of nowhere.

The chapter seemed to be taking some ideas from the anime version of fused Zamasu, with his body grotesquely corrupting and then becoming some kind of unique form that can't be properly fought.

Dude, where are you guys seeing the chapter? I can't get anything.

Also agree, planet Moro just feels like another random power that.

[goku the krump dancer]

Right now the servers are down on Viz's site because everyone is tryna read this shit lol.

[PremiumSalt]

Well would you look at that, the chapter wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be based on the leaks.

This is my surprised face.

[Brettjr25]

Ok, so the senzu bean made no sense right?

Why did Moro need to be at 100% For Goku to ask him to go to prison? Its not like he was bleeding out, he didn't even look too, wounded able to stand listen and walk easily. Wouldn't Jaco be terrified to escort him back at 100% to prison? It was clearly just done to force this situation.

Also given how strong Angels are, even more powerful than GoD, anyone curious on how much of his power Moro was using? Does Goku perfected UI put him at the level of Angels now???

Also am I the only person wishing the next chapter starts with Whis saying, "welp you doomed your galaxy Goku. It is my job to oversee the god of destruction and there's nothing for him to destroy here." Then him and Beerus teleports out of there.?

[SupremeKai25]

Ok, so the senzu bean made no sense right?

Why did Moro need to be at 100% For Goku to ask him to go to prison? Its not like he was bleeding out, he didn't even look too, wounded able to stand listen and walk easily. Wouldn't Jaco be terrified to escort him back at 100% to prison? It was clearly just done to force this situation.

Also given how strong Angels are, even more powerful than GoD, anyone curious on how much of his power Moro was using? Does Goku perfected UI put him at the level of Angels now???

Also am I the only person wishing the next chapter starts with Whis saying, "welp you doomed your galaxy Goku. It is my job to oversee the god of destruction and there's nothing for him to destroy here." Then him and Beerus teleports out of there.?

It would be appreciated if Beerus and Whis reprimanded Goku for his stupidity, as is their right. But words are meaningless with someone like Goku, he'd just shrug them off. In an ideal scenario, Beerus would proceed to destroy Goku. That's a fitting punishment for a power-hungry fight psycho who has doomed the universe many times. Furthermore, if Beerus were a competent Destroyer, he wouldn't care about any emotional attachment he might feel towards the mortals of Earth. He'd downright destroy the entire planet, and Moro along with it. The galaxy would likely be destroyed as a result, but at this point it can't be helped. As with every destruction comes creation, so I'm sure Shin would eventually nurture new life.

Of course we know that won't happen, because Beerus is an incompetent clown who can't do his job. Why Zeno hasn't fired him already is beyond me, he even knows Beerus is not fit to do that job!

[UpFromTheSkies]

Viz is down, but Manga Plus is working https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1007769

[Koitsukai]

Oh boy, this is starting to feel like those nightmares that never end. Moro got his 7-3 break, his senzu break, his Angel-power break and his Earth break... that's four new chances. Like why is it so hard to end a story? or a fight? last chapter was so good, so why did we get a Goku that keeps asking Moro if he'll go to prison several times until he spots his lost hand? it's so fucking forced I can't even...

There isn't much to say about this, it's too similar to Cell's fight. It even has a bloated villain losing control and threating the whole galaxy if he blows up, taking advantage of the hero's "coolness". I've already read, watched and played the template of this story, why is it coming back?

So fighting as an earthling was giving him a senzu after all... also why? so Jaco could have a tough time delivering the prisoner?
there's a panel of Whis just sighing, that summs up this whole arc.

On the good side, Goku can turn UI now as easily as I can turn a light switch, I thought in the fuck-everything combo Toyo would give us Goku losing it or dropping to the ground due to the toll on his body.

[Lord Frieza]

Heard about Moro's power up down the grap vine and decide to see for myself.

Ove all intreasting and it while it's derivative of prior DB events, it dose have it's own spin on it.

Spoiler:

Moro's giant form is not simple from powering up like Cell or Zamasu, but because he body is not adapted to using ultra instinct and his energy is going out of control. In a way its like anime Zamasu and his lack of understand about how fusion worked. That said this said we have already tread this ground with Zamasu in the anime.

The only advantage Moro has over Zamasu in this case is that he's a magic user who who specialises in manipulating ki/life energy. So in a way I find his out of nowhere abilities more believable, as they are magic i.e. something that defies logic even if it has rules and limitations. Yet that doesn't change the fact we are to closely dancing near many of DB's other story arcs. I think we can agree that the style of story DB's been suck in from the Frieza arc onward is starting to reach its logical limit and we are simple spinning around the same ideas and plot lines just with the odd new coat of paint.

The franchise needs to just stop or have a major rework of it's story telling as this arc shows were really are not going anywhere but circles.

[Kodoshin]

Ok, so the senzu bean made no sense right?

Why did Moro need to be at 100% For Goku to ask him to go to prison? Its not like he was bleeding out, he didn't even look too, wounded able to stand listen and walk easily. Wouldn't Jaco be terrified to escort him back at 100% to prison? It was clearly just done to force this situation.

Also given how strong Angels are, even more powerful than GoD, anyone curious on how much of his power Moro was using? Does Goku perfected UI put him at the level of Angels now???

Also am I the only person wishing the next chapter starts with Whis saying, "welp you doomed your galaxy Goku. It is my job to oversee the god of destruction and there's nothing for him to destroy here." Then him and Beerus teleports out of there.?

tags:

Spoiler:

I think the point of the senzu is so Goku could, after making his offer, confirm Moro's intentions. Judging from his reaction he got exactly the answer he expected. Honestly though, being that Moro grabbed Vegeta earlier he has Instantaneous Movement now so it's not like you could take him on his word at any transport attempt.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Ok, so the senzu bean made no sense right?

Why did Moro need to be at 100% For Goku to ask him to go to prison? Its not like he was bleeding out, he didn't even look too, wounded able to stand listen and walk easily. Wouldn't Jaco be terrified to escort him back at 100% to prison? It was clearly just done to force this situation.

Goku wanted to be able to fight Moro again, so ideally he would like him to peacefully go back to prison instead of killing him so he can visit him in the future, but he needed to know if he could actually trust Moro (naive as always) so he gave him a senzu bean to test his character and of course Moro failed. Goku knew at that moment even if Moro reached 100% he could still defeat him, so he didn't see a risk.

Also given how strong Angels are, even more powerful than GoD, anyone curious on how much of his power Moro was using? Does Goku perfected UI put him at the level of Angels now???

Possibly. Merus did say if Goku mastered UI no one could defeat him, but since Moro doesn't know how to fully control angel power yet he wouldn't compare to an actual angel using it.

Also am I the only person wishing the next chapter starts with Whis saying, "welp you doomed your galaxy Goku. It is my job to oversee the god of destruction and there's nothing for him to destroy here." Then him and Beerus teleports out of there.?

I'd be fine with that, I just hope we don't get a time reversal again or Goku calling Zeno.

[JewyB]

So, i actually found the chapter to be quite enjoyable, despite people insisting it was the worst written thing ever before... yknow... reading it....

So lets say some things and some stuff, spoilers obviously:

I didnt feel the senzu moment was that bad, Goku felt in control the entire time, but also genuinely felt like he was trying his hardest to justify not doing what he had to do(he repeatedly asked moro to go back to prison, he shown him mercy, he even depowered and asked jaco to let him talk to him). Goku felt like he was outwardly willing to kill Moro, but inwardly struggling against that i suppose. The senzu was just the grandest gesture or diminishing gestures.

Moros planet form etc was a "finally" moment, i'm not sure if its too little too late, but i've been waiting for his magic warping reality to come into it for a while now. Magic is the classic weakness of powerful characters so its nice to see it come into play more than just "FLOOR BEAMS GO!".

Whis and beerus seem more annoyed than anything, which signifies to me that both > 7-3 Moro and Angel Moro does not have access to the full Angel potential, hence him needing to become Earth in order to even contain it, but still apparently might struggle? Before this he was equal with Goku so UI Goku isn't quite at Angel level yet, and i feel he's close but just slightly below Beerus at this point. Like, literally scraping at his toes.

Also, the fact that UI now has a power requirement kinda bugs me. I mean, its fair but, it was the equaliser, it wasn't a saiyan form anymore, it was a technique even Master Roshi could get close to! Now you need to be a Saiyan to hit that ludicrous power requirement before you can be calm i guess?

I also think next chapter will be the end of this now.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 65:

- Okay... the senzu bean scene. Now, I can see what Toyotaro is going for. He wants to convey a scene where Goku is in such dominance that can afford for Moro to be fulled healed for that not even be a factor in how the fight progresses. It's basically a repeated story beat of Cell being given a senzu by Goku because Goku was so confident in Gohan defeating him. But the huge problem with that scene is that the story has already made is abundantly clear that Moro at his strongest (at that point) can't touch Complete Ultra Instinct. So healing Moro adds nothing to plot other than emphasising something we already know about Moro (he's a piece of shit), to stall for enough time for Moro to think of a way to extend the battle and turn in his favour and unnecessarily portray Goku as an pants-on-head idiot.

- I HATED the scene where Goku was trying to convince Moro to go away and train. Part of what makes antagonists slowly become better people in Dragon Ball was always through Goku's actions not his words. It seems like Toyotaro took the context of Goku saying to Freeza back on Namek before they had their battle that he would have made a good sparring partner if he wasn't so evil, and tried to expand on that previous character beat, not realising that moment wasn't meant to serve as Goku trying to get Freeza to become a decent person. Moro has lived for millions of years and has wiped out God knows how many lives across the universe and has openly declared he likes doing it. So it's way too late for Goku to be expecting some form of humanity from Moro, that it makes him so ridiculously naive for him to even entertain Moro with the idea of him willingly surrendering to the Galactic Patrol. Especially considering Goku never showed this kind of mercy to previous antagonists in Super, or Dragon Ball general, when they were more vulnerable than Moro. So this character beat feel arbitrary and out of place in general.

-- Part of the unique charm of Dragon Ball's storytelling is Goku never being fully aware of how much of positive impact he has on other people nor going out of his way to get people to act with more humility. He's just a martial artist who likes to challenge himself and through sheer luck and through his remarkable feats in combat, draws in more people around him and brings out more positive dimensions to their character. That's wonderfully compelling and unique narrative quick Dragon Ball has. Goku is not the kind of who would be be actively trying to find some form of decency in every person he fights. And even if that were the case, he never needs prompting nor has further qualms about killing a threat when he realises he can't contain it. I just can't shake the Superman vibes I got from that scene. And it's a shame the scene in general just falls apart because I actually enjoyed the subtle disappointment Goku expressed in Moro just borrowing power from other to climb to top of the food chain. Jaco lampshading how absurd the whole scenario is made me laugh a little.

- Goku to Moro: "Okay... you leave me no choice. Because I promised Meerus I'd protect this galaxy." Um... killing Moro would have done that job just fine. But... whatever.

- Complete Ultra Instinct is going to get nerfed HARD in the next arc considering Goku can turn it on and off like a light switch now.

- Really great and eye catching panelling and fight choreography from start to finish.

- I always enjoy a "hoist by his own petard" narrative twist as much as next guy, I just fucking despise the writing that it took to get there.

- I really don't know what to make of Moro literally fusing with the planet. It's an incredibly unique visual, but I'm just left scratching head wondering how in the hell Moro was able to do this in the place. Can Angels fuse their bodies with planets?

- CAN BEERUS PLEASE DO SOMETHING!? What was the point of bringing him to Earth if he's just going to provide commentary? It's like Resurrection F all over again.

- I hate how human-esque Moro looks. He had unique goat like design going for him and now he just looks like something of those shitty Dragon Ball fan comics.

- I can't help but feel that Moro fusing with Earth was done to set up Vegeta to defuse him with his Spirit Fusion ability. That HAS to be the pay off... right?

Overall thoughts... terribly written from start to finish.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think there's much of a problem with the senzu bit, he could tank Moro afterwards.
The problem to me is Goku needing a memo to understand Moro needs to die, he kept asking him stuff, Jaco calls him out on this and he responds "let me talk to him some more". Really?? you gave him a senzu and he went for your heart, what else you need to know?... and then he tells him where to get UI.
Come on, Goku where's your head? go fight Beerus IDK

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Is Beerus gonna do anything or is he just gonna sit around while Moro potentially nuke the galaxy if he loses control of his powers and that could kill Shin and him in turn and make Whis inactive....

[Lord Beerus]

Is Beerus gonna do anything or is he just gonna sit around while Moro potentially nuke the galaxy if he loses control of his powers and that could kill Shin and him in turn and make Whis inactive....

Beerus is not gonna do jack shit. The story has clearly set up for Vegeta to come in and make the save.

[Matches Malone]

I can't help but feel that Moro fusing with Earth was done to set up Vegeta to defuse him with his Spirit Fusion ability. That HAS to be the pay off... right?

Overall thoughts... terribly written from start to finish.

That has to be it, otherwise why give Vegeta such an ability ?

I agree, but I think it's possible to make up for it next month...hopefully.

[JewyB]

I can't help but feel that Moro fusing with Earth was done to set up Vegeta to defuse him with his Spirit Fusion ability. That HAS to be the pay off... right?

Overall thoughts... terribly written from start to finish.

That has to be it, otherwise why give Vegeta such an ability ?

I agree, but I think it's possible to make up for it next month...hopefully.

Impossible, Earth is UI, it can just dodge Vegetas kicks now.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Crossing fingers that Vegeta finds a way to defuse Planet Moro without fucking them over and have Moro die afterwards. The worst that could happen is that Moro merges with the universe or something.

[Block88]

Meh chapter can’t wait for this shit to end next chapter

[Kodoshin]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 65:

- I HATED the scene where Goku was trying to convince Moro to go away and train. Part of what makes antagonists slowly become better people in Dragon Ball was always through Goku's actions not his words. It seems like Toyotaro took the context of Goku saying to Freeza back on Namek before they had their battle that he would have made a good sparring partner if he wasn't so evil, and tried to expand on that previous character beat, not realising that moment wasn't meant to serve as Goku trying to get Freeza to become a decent person. Moro has lived for millions of years and has wiped out God knows how many lives across the universe and has openly declared he likes doing it. So it's way too late for Goku to be expecting some form of humanity from Moro, that it makes him so ridiculously naive for him to even entertain Moro with the idea of him willingly surrendering to the Galactic Patrol. Especially considering Goku never showed this kind of mercy to previous antagonists in Super, or Dragon Ball general, when they were more vulnerable than Moro. So this character beat feel arbitrary and out of place in general.

Can you stop with this dishonest take about Goku telling him to go away and train? He never offers to let him leave other than to return to prison. He's just telling him that he lost because of his insistence on taking shortcuts like copying powers instead of training. He bemoans the fact that Moro is irredeemable. He even confirms to Jaco he was never going to let him go so why are you being so fundamentally dishonest about this?