"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[BWri]

Not sure how many people have already pointed this out but did anyone else notice the efficiency and thoroughness of the sensu's healing? It's the first time we've witnessed its regenerative attributes on-screen like that. Many fans contended that the beans couldn't regenerate limbs, despite historically it proving capable of restoring lung and organ tissues when someone had a perforation through their chest.

Yeah, there were some interesting statements made in this chapter. So, Tien could've gotten his arm back if he had a sensu during his fight Nappa. I was also thinking that perhaps, the Namekian healing might have somehow synergized with the bean but Moro made no direct mention of that. It's still something to consider. But yeah, the beans have a precedent for healing grave internal injuries.

There was also confirmation that Moro is the strongest (toughest in Goku's words) foe Goku has faced even before absorbing Merus. I thought that was made clear but now we have the statement.

[JewyB]

Personally, I thought the Moro absorbing himself into the earth was... interesting. I say interesting because it displays a cunningness on Moro's part and is an active choice he makes to prevent his body from decaying over the absorption of Merus' power. That's neat, I guess, but also, I feel it must be stressed, this is just like when he straight up ate 7-3. It looks color, sure, but we're given no indication that he should be able to do anything like that, there is no set up, no foreshadowing, nothing, he just does it like it's a natural thing for him to do, like he's done it a million times before or something. Where did that come from? It's so bad.

I mean, i just personally take it as an "I absorb power and the more power i have the more better i absorb and the more better i absorb the more power i have and...." type deal. Moro has shown at his base he relies on absorption from other lifeforms and planets, merging could be a logical next step in his ^dragonball evolution.

[nato25]

Was anyone just ridiculously distracted by how derivative this chapter was? I literally felt like I was watching the Cell games again with different characters in the same role.

- Moro saying die by my hand...
- Goku messing around too much with his new power and being overconfident... (ssj2 Gohan)
- whis telling him to finish merus off now (Goku)
- Moro getting desperate, going huge and threatening to take the planet with it (2nd stage Cell)

Plus the sensu bean thing. There were a couple nice twists (ie moros hand getting damaged, not being able to handle Merus power, merging with the planet forcing them to make the choice). But I was just so damn distracted. Toyotaro has cribbed stuff before no doubt, but this was just wierd to read.

[Lord Beerus]

Most of the people you mentioned don't come close to level of collateral damage Moro has racked up. That's the big difference. Oolong, #16, #17, #18, Pilaf Gang, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Yajirobe, Piccolo, Jiren and Broly may have had unscrupulous personalities, but we never saw them go out of their way to murder people, let alone people across the galaxy, and actively enjoy it. And that not even taking into the consideration some of the people you named never met Goku, let alone fought him. Context is important in this situation.

Its not about the level of damage they rack up, its about the series of events, they always play out the same regardless of the level of damage as long as Goku is strong enough.

And context is important, and in the context of Goku right now, he is fighting on his own terms and not thinking about the moral consequences of keeping Moro alive or the greater good. And to push this even further, he is literally acting entirely on instinct, on making huge judgements, his mind is clear, so he will act how he always acts regardless of consequence.

That would explain how repetitive this arc has been and all the callbacks, maybe UI is all just references to earlier moves and decisions. Maybe Toyo is a wayyyy better writer than we've been giving him credit for, hmmmm....

But what the character does in the series events gives an introspective of the kind of the character Goku is dealing with and the audience have to identify. Goku knows exactly the kind of person he's dealing with. Hell, Goku point blank asked Moro earlier in the arc what his endgame was and Moro gave him the most cartonishly generic evil response possible. So Goku hoping for some kind of humility from Moro at that stage was incredibly misguided.

The scene would have worked a hell of a lot better had Goku been less aware of the kind of person was and what's he's done. That's why Goku giving Freeza energy on Namek work a lot better in the same context. Goku learns more about Freeza's personality the more he interacts and fights him. And it helps that Freeza is such a wonderfully fleshed out character. Moro is so one note that all he has going for him is draining life from planets and he embraces that.

And as somebody else pointed out in this thread, Moro will outlive the cast. What will stop him if he breaks out and does this shit all over again?

[The Undying]

He knows that Moro's irredeemable but only sees it as a damn waste of amazing potential. I've always liked the "good cannot comprehend evil" trope. After all this time, Goku still can't fully understand why a person with such power would waste it by being evil and sadistic, but for maybe the first time, he wants to try to. Everyone says that Goku's just being stupid but this is perhaps one of the most intellectually verbose moments he's ever had, probably since the 23rd Budokai all those years ago.

Co-signed. This is that bit of context I mentioned that I feel people are missing entirely.

Goku wasn't doing any of this to be heroic, he was doing it because he sees it as a waste of good strength and wants to understand what Moro's deal is. He said as much himself. It's not too dissimilar from the beats surrounding Piccolo, Vegeta, and Freeza - one of which was never redeemed and is still running around genociding planets thanks to Goku's own willful inaction. Freeza is every bit as morally abhorrent as Moro, but was let off the hook on numerous occasions in OG DB and Super. Even then, it's quite telling that Goku was perfectly willing to kill Moro when all was said and done.

Whether it was the "right" thing to do isn't the question that should be asked. That's all surface-level plot nonsense. What it does for the characters, their dynamics, and the story's themes is the important stuff.

[emperior]

Quite a great chapter, but I’m getting used to such quality chapters as of lately, as Toyotaro’s on a long streak of awesome chapters.

The art and panelling only keeps on improving, and I am so glad to say that not only is art no more an issue but I am actually looking forward to Toyotaro’s work each month also because of the great art and not just for the story.

The_Undying has already nailed down the impressions on this chapter, and I couldn’t agree more with what he said, but I will add my two cents.

First of all, I have no issues with Goku feeding Moro a senzu. That’s the kind of messed up things which happen in Dragon Ball and it completely fits with the character.

I especially liked Goku’s speech to Moro. It didn’t occur to me until now how heavy the theming of “hard earned power vs stolen power“ is in this arc. It began with Moro having to steal power to contend with Goku and Vegeta. Then we had 73, another power-stealing warrior, being easily overpowered by Gohan and Piccolo working together, then Saganbo losing due to his body not being able to handle all the power Moro was giving him... and finally Moro himself reaching the limit of power he can steal. That’s very good stuff, and such a fitting thematic for Dragon Ball.

The fight was great too. Very nicely paced and choreographed, and I enjoyed seeing Goku and Moro flying all over Earth. This would be amazing to see animated.

As for the ending, it was completely unexpected and a bit out of nowhere. I guess it fits that Moro, the planet eater, ends up being a planet himself. And it’s quite obviously heading towards Vegeta being crucial to beat Moro. I am very curious to see how that will happen, as it probably won’t be just as easy as Vegeta punching the ground and for sure the next chapter will have some unexpected twist.

By the way, it seems like next month will be the end of Moro and possibly of the whole arc too.

[Mister_Popo]

Most of the people you mentioned don't come close to level of collateral damage Moro has racked up. That's the big difference. Oolong, #16, #17, #18, Pilaf Gang, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Yajirobe, Piccolo, Jiren and Broly may have had unscrupulous personalities, but we never saw them go out of their way to murder people, let alone people across the galaxy, and actively enjoy it. And that not even taking into the consideration some of the people you named never met Goku, let alone fought him. Context is important in this situation.

Its not about the level of damage they rack up, its about the series of events, they always play out the same regardless of the level of damage as long as Goku is strong enough.

And context is important, and in the context of Goku right now, he is fighting on his own terms and not thinking about the moral consequences of keeping Moro alive or the greater good. And to push this even further, he is literally acting entirely on instinct, on making huge judgements, his mind is clear, so he will act how he always acts regardless of consequence.

That would explain how repetitive this arc has been and all the callbacks, maybe UI is all just references to earlier moves and decisions. Maybe Toyo is a wayyyy better writer than we've been giving him credit for, hmmmm....

But what the character does in the series events gives an introspective of the kind of the character Goku is dealing with and the audience have to identify. Goku knows exactly the kind of person he's dealing with. Hell, Goku point blank asked Moro earlier in the arc what his endgame was and Moro gave him the most cartonishly generic evil response possible. So Goku hoping for some kind of humility from Moro at that stage was incredibly misguided.

The scene would have worked a hell of a lot better had Goku been less aware of the kind of person was and what's he's done. That's why Goku giving Freeza energy on Namek work a lot better in the same context. Goku learns more about Freeza's personality the more he interacts and fights him. And it helps that Freeza is such a wonderfully fleshed out character. Moro is so one note that all he has going for him is draining life from planets and he embraces that.

And as somebody else pointed out in this thread, Moro will outlive the cast. What will stop him if he breaks out and does this shit all over again?

I think it's completely in line with Gokus character.
On Namek he knew what a careless monster Freeza was, he killed Krillin and so many others without a reason, but he still gave what is basically a sadistic monster some of his own energy to survive.
He only destroyed him at the end because there basically was no other way around.
Now, he first wants to give Moro a chance to live, it's only when Whis says it's really unwise to keep him alive, when he finally wants to execute him.

He basically only kills when he is forced to do it, and confronted with the ultimate stakes by circumstances or in this case, because his mentor tells him there is no other sensible decision or option left.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Defusing Moro from the planet is probably not gonna be as easy as it sounds. It'll likely require Vegeta to hit the points where Moro's body actually is(like his face or something) and we know that's gonna be a massive pain given how Moro can go anywhere he wants now that he's the planet. Hopefully it doesn't backfire and we have Merged Zamasu incident where he becomes one with the universe or something.

[Xeogran]

It's kinda disappointing not a single Kaioshin is on the battlefield here, considering Moro's freud was with them. I know they can't do anything power wise, but maybe some advices or magic tricks I don't know. Shin finally doing something too.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

It's kinda disappointing not a single Kaioshin is on the battlefield here, considering Moro's freud was with them. I know they can't do anything power wise, but maybe some advices or magic tricks I don't know. Shin finally doing something too.

Probably don't want to kill themselves.

[FortuneSSJ]

I wonder if Vegeta can Fission Punch the ground and force a separation, that'll be funny lol.

I think some of us are actually expecting something like that.

[BWri]

Oh yeah, a review. Overall it's mixed for me. I didn't absolutely hate this chapter. There were many positives. Basically everything Goku related is I hated. Despite him sparing villains before, I find Goku's actions to be out of character in this chapter, unless he has some sort of degenerative brain disease ... which could be accurate all things considered if this were real life. Goku has always known when it is absolutely necessary to kill and when villains are beyond the pale. And it doesn't take a whole conversation for him to figure that out as he's always judged based on actions. And what's more, he's never gone so far out of his way to force the issue.

The idea of redeeming a several million year old planet unabashed planet eater/destroyer of worlds was ridiculous enough, but after Moro declined him the first two times and continued trying to kill him, you'd think Goku would get the message. Not only that, but by the end of the chapter Moro has gone from completely defeated to acquiring the power to destroy the galaxy in mere moments. It would be impressive if it wasn't all hinging on Goku's negligence.

Just about everything else I enjoyed though. For me, it was mainly the character reactions to Goku. I was expecting more pushback from Krillin, but I guess he really trusts his old buddy. The fact that the characters outside the fight were all audience surrogates cracked me up a few times. Beerus and Jaco expressed the opinions of most of the fandom. So Toyotaro and crew know how far-fetched this is but its insane that they still went in this direction. Even though they were basically audience surrogates, I still found their reactions to be "realistic" given what they were witnessing.

I actually quite enjoyed Moro as well. The dude has no shame and is willing to do whatever it takes to win, but when he thinks he has an advantage he doesn't back down. He basically took every opening Goku offered and ran with it, ultimately attaining the power of an angel. In one fell swoop he absorbed the Earth and now threatens to destroy the galaxy. He's foolish for not seeing that he's in the same predicament as Saganbo, but ultimately he's maneuvered in the best position he could be in right now after taking advantage of Goku's mistakes. You almost have to admire a scumbag like that. i mean, he's on borrowed time at the end of the day, but to go from sure defeat to basically stalemating with your foe by exploiting their stupidity is neat.

The art was also on point. UI looked impressive as did Moro's version. I liked how they fought all around the world during the chase sequence. It's like a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me.

[Koitsukai]

The senzu works like that on Moro I think because of 7-3(he regenerated half of itself vs Gohan) and also Piccolo's ability. I doubt Future Gohan would've gotten his arm back with a senzu.

Earth with UI, lol I guess the Halley comet now can give its best shot and we'd all laugh at it. For real, I would actually enjoy if a comet or something like that happens to come by and Moro just dodges it.

[SupremeKai25]

Such a shame that Goku will be forced to fight as an earthling... against the Earth itself. Oh, the irony.

[DiscountDabi]

I think it would have been better if Goku wanted to know why Moro was the way he was. And he places his hand on Moro’s head similarly to how he did with Krillin on Namek and reads his mind. Then we spend most of the chapter seeing a Moro backstory of discovering his Magic and how he turned to evil. Nothing like a tragic Jiren Backstory, just something to explain his unending evilness. This only lasts for a few seconds in real time before Moro slaps his hand away, notices the hand, and the chapter ends with Moro in his Angelic form.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Lets just hope Planet Moro is his final phase. That it unless any of you want Infinite Moro running around. Cause we all know where that solution goes.

[LoganForkHands73]

He knows that Moro's irredeemable but only sees it as a damn waste of amazing potential. I've always liked the "good cannot comprehend evil" trope. After all this time, Goku still can't fully understand why a person with such power would waste it by being evil and sadistic, but for maybe the first time, he wants to try to. Everyone says that Goku's just being stupid but this is perhaps one of the most intellectually verbose moments he's ever had, probably since the 23rd Budokai all those years ago.

Co-signed. This is that bit of context I mentioned that I feel people are missing entirely.

Goku wasn't doing any of this to be heroic, he was doing it because he sees it as a waste of good strength. He said as much himself. It's not too dissimilar from the beats surrounding Piccolo, Vegeta, and Freeza - one of which was never redeemed and is still running around genociding planets thanks to Goku's own willful inaction. Freeza is every bit as morally abhorrent as Moro, but was let off the hook on numerous occasions in OG DB and Super. Even then, it's quite telling that Goku was perfectly willing to kill Moro when all was said and done.

Whether it was the "right" thing to do isn't the question that should be asked. That's all surface-level plot nonsense. What it does for the characters, their dynamics, and the story's themes is the important stuff.

Aye, cheers. Goku outright calls Moro the toughest opponent he's ever faced, there's no way he's gonna be happy about letting that go to waste.

When Goku usually talks about "oh, it would've been great if you weren't evil, you could be a great rival", it's usually with passing pithy remarks. Even against Vegeta in the Saiyan arc, he said it with a tingle of excitement. Here, he genuinely seems... sad and disappointed, likely because he knows that with Moro, there really is zero chance of that ever happening. Why do all the other strong guys have to be giant assholes? Why does everyone always expect him to be the redeemer? It's like the universe is taunting him.

Thinking about it, in a way, there is a visible parallel between Goku and Moro. They both like having the freedom to toy with other people. Moro wants to be free to eat whoever he wants, Goku wants to be free to fight whoever he wants.

[SupremeKai25]

Lets just hope Planet Moro is his final phase. That it unless any of you want Infinite Moro running around. Cause we all know where that solution goes.

It'd make sense if Morio used his powers to copy stuff from a better villain, a shame he couldn't copy compelling motivations and philosophy though.

[JewyB]

It's kinda disappointing not a single Kaioshin is on the battlefield here, considering Moro's freud was with them. I know they can't do anything power wise, but maybe some advices or magic tricks I don't know. Shin finally doing something too.

Was this.... Was this a literal freudian slip?

[BWri]

Was anyone just ridiculously distracted by how derivative this chapter was? I literally felt like I was watching the Cell games again with different characters in the same role.

- Moro saying die by my hand...
- Goku messing around too much with his new power and being overconfident... (ssj2 Gohan)
- whis telling him to finish merus off now (Goku)
- Moro getting desperate, going huge and threatening to take the planet with it (2nd stage Cell)

There's definitely a lot of callbacks, but I believe Moro's balloon looking form isn't a reference to that, but rather a reference to Moro's nature as a glutton. It fits his nature perfectly ... as it did Cell now that I think about it. Both gain power by "eating" so the ultimate way to express their depravity is to show them engorged on power, literally. It's their strength and their downfall, moreso in Moro's case.