I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

[SupremeKai25]

In that case, Zamasu would actually rank very high. The thing about Zamasu is that we might distinguish between Goku Black, Immortal Zamasu, and Fused Zamasu, but ultimately they are the same character, the same person. So, if that list only had one version of Zamasu (as with every other villain there), in total he would've gotten 13.7% of the votes in that poll, which would put him in third place between Broly and Jiren, and above all original villains except Frieza and Broly.

Is there a more recent poll? Being popular shortly after their arc ends isn't the same as being iconic years later. There's also a difference between being popular among DB fans and among the overall anime community since I'm pretty sure only the original villains show up on popularity polls that include other major shonen titles. After the initial hype dies down, it's common for fans to revisit something and not considering it aging that well or not as good as they originally thought. I'm not saying this only applies to DBS but literally any new product. To be considered iconic or a classic, they have to stand the test of time.

I'm not sure why popularity should matter in this thread though. Does it validate liking a certain character if a bunch of other people also like them? Two of my favorite Z movies were Dead Zone and The World's Strongest. Garlic Jr and Dr. Wheelo aren't showing up on any popularity poll so should my opinion about them change?

That pool was from 2018. The Zamasu arc ended in 2016.

My original argument is that, if DBS created many popular and unique characters that stood out for the fandom, then clearly it's not JUST fan-service.

[Skar]

That pool was from 2018. The Zamasu arc ended in 2016.

My original argument is that, if DBS created many popular and unique characters that stood out for the fandom, then clearly it's not JUST fan-service.

I can agree with that but no revival is going to be 100% fan service and there are usually some likable new characters unless the revival is a standalone reunion movie or something. I just mean it's too early to claim these new characters are as iconic as those who appeared in the original since they remained iconic for decades.

[precita]

Beerus/Whis have been around for 7 years so that's a long enough time for people to acknowledge them as Dragonball history. They almost feel like "classic" characters at this point even though they're not. I mean it's almost hard to remember a time where Beerus didn't exist now, he feels so natural that it feels like it came right after the Boo arc if the manga still went on back then.

[Matches Malone]

Beerus/Whis have been around for 7 years so that's a long enough time for people to acknowledge them as Dragonball history. They almost feel like "classic" characters at this point even though they're not. I mean it's almost hard to remember a time where Beerus didn't exist now, he feels so natural that it feels like it came right after the Boo arc if the manga still went on back then.

I agree with this. BOG is the only part of modern DB that I not only consider classic, but one that fits perfectly within the original run.

[Kinokima]

Beerus and Whis may have been around for a long time and they were technically introduced in a Z movie but I still don’t consider them classic characters. They just feel like Super characters to me. Same with the Super Saiyan God form which was also introduced in that movie

For me classic is before the revival of DB. Battle of Gods was the start of that revival. It’s just modern DB has actually been around for some time.

[Matches Malone]

Beerus and Whis may have been around for a long time and they were technically introduced in a Z movie but I still don’t consider them classic characters. They just feel like Super characters to me.

Are they on the classic level of Goku, Krillin, Piccolo, Freeza, Vegeta, etc... ? Of course not, but if anyone introduced within the last decade fits the bill, despite being new, it'd be these 2.

[Kinokima]

Beerus and Whis may have been around for a long time and they were technically introduced in a Z movie but I still don’t consider them classic characters. They just feel like Super characters to me.

Are they on the classic level of Goku, Krillin, Piccolo, Freeza, Vegeta, etc... ? Of course not, but if anyone introduced within the last decade fits the bill, despite being new, it'd be these 2.

I think we have a different definition of classic. I am not disparaging them as characters. I think both Beerus & Whis are great characters (who have been poorly utilized)

I just think of BOG as the start of the new era of DB. So to me Beerus & Whis are from the modern era. That’s all, there is no other judgment when I say classic or not classic

[precita]

Technically the 2008 special that introduced Tarble is the start of "modern" Dragonball.

[JulieYBM]

Beers, Whis and Super Saiyan God are seven years old. Seven years into the original comic we were already at Super Saiyan Vegeta getting the hecc kicked out of him by Artificial Human #18. I think it's okay to argue that God, Beers and Whis are 'old'.

[Kinokima]

Beers, Whis and Super Saiyan God are seven years old. Seven years into the original comic we were already at Super Saiyan Vegeta getting the hecc kicked out of him by Artificial Human #18. I think it's okay to argue that God, Beers and Whis are 'old'.

I still think you can say there is a cut off to separate the two eras

As for Yo Son Goku I can see that being part of either era really. Sort of like a bridge.

[JewyB]

I still think you can say there is a cut off to separate the two eras

As for Yo Son Goku I can see that being part of either era really. Sort of like a bridge.

This seems contradictory, how can there be a cut off point but also one that is part of both? If there was a cut off point it could, at best, be 50% one and 50% the other.

[Kinokima]

I still think you can say there is a cut off to separate the two eras

As for Yo Son Goku I can see that being part of either era really. Sort of like a bridge.

This seems contradictory, how can there be a cut off point but also one that is part of both? If there was a cut off point it could, at best, be 50% one and 50% the other.

Because Yo Son Goku is just a short one off special and nothing from it is necessarily incorporated into the modern era. I don’t really have a strong opinion on whether it should be part of the modern era of DB or not.

[Goten_jr]

I understand art is subjective, but you'd have to be a major fanboy to say Super has anything on that list.

Tbh I think most of these Anime’s are even better than Z but I enjoyed DBS(until T.O.P) more than AoT For example even though AoT is obviously way better written

[Matches Malone]

Tbh I think most of these Anime’s are even better than Z but I enjoyed DBS(until T.O.P) more than AoT For example even though AoT is obviously way better written.

I have no issue with people enjoying something more than another. Out of all the anime I've seen, I consider DB and Z to be the most enjoyable, but I recognize that they're not the best I've seen or the best made. It's more than acceptable to like Super, the issue I have is people trying to pass it on as something on the level of other high quality anime, which is factually false.

I noticed this is more of a new thing that came along with Super, as pre-2015 no one tried to pass the franchise as something on the level of Full Metal Alchemist for example. Fans liked DB for what it was and for the things it did have. With Super (not you personally), its fans would rather try to bring down other anime instead of just admitting it's not on the level of other shows and that it has problems.

[kemuri07]

When DBS works, and this on very rare occassions, it can be dumb, trashy fun. Where you can be thrilled about watching a modern DB show.

Like the episode where Goku recruits Freeza. I hated what it represented, but in execution I was surprised at how much fun it was to watch two people who clearly hate each other bounce off each other.


But also, yeah, really hated the tendency of some Super fans to drag down Z just to prop up Super.

[Matches Malone]

When DBS works, and this on very rare occassions, it can be dumb, trashy fun. Where you can be thrilled about watching a modern DB show.

Like the episode where Goku recruits Freeza. I hated what it represented, but in execution I was surprised at how much fun it was to watch two people who clearly hate each other bounce off each other.


But also, yeah, really hated the tendency of some Super fans to drag down Z just to prop up Super.

Super had a lot of potential, as BOG kicked the door of possibilities way open, the problem is that they never lived up to it. Freeza's role in the TOP was a highlight for sure, as you never knew what he was thinking and what he was capable of.

[Kinokima]

When DBS works, and this on very rare occassions, it can be dumb, trashy fun. Where you can be thrilled about watching a modern DB show.

Like the episode where Goku recruits Freeza. I hated what it represented, but in execution I was surprised at how much fun it was to watch two people who clearly hate each other bounce off each other.


But also, yeah, really hated the tendency of some Super fans to drag down Z just to prop up Super.

Super had a lot of potential, as BOG kicked the door of possibilities way open, the problem is that they never lived up to it. Freeza's role in the TOP was a highlight for sure, as you never knew what he was thinking and what he was capable of.

Personally I found Freeza in the TOP a disappointment but I know I am in the minority. His personality was fun and I always love Ryūsei Nakao‘a performance but he was just kind of there until the end where he got that team up with Goku

In the anime they kept playing up “will he betray his team” but it got old for me pretty quickly and he never even had an opportunity where betraying U7 would benefit him in anyway . It would have been more interesting if there was.


Overall I actually liked Freeza’s role in the manga a bit more. Him planning something with Android 17 who he had no history with just worked better for me than the Heroic music playing as him and Goku “teamed up”. I don’t really like Freeza in the anti hero role.

[The Undying]

Yeah, count me in the same boat.

The manga (and films, for that matter) has Freeza doing things truer to his character - blindsiding foes, getting humiliated in direct brawls that he unwittingly sows the seeds for, being a cruel opportunist, behaving like an actual villain. The list goes on and on.

The guy's a murderous, underhanded sociopath through and through, and by the end, they win thanks to a sneak attack that speaks to the sheer antithesis between Freeza's approach and Goku's. The story understood his role and distinguished it from the rest.

I can't get down with all the forced melodrama and "badass" cooperative moments they give him in the anime. That's just a caricature of Freeza.

[Dbzfan94]

No one really cares about Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, or even Gohan these days.

Iconic, or not, they just don't compare to the likes of Jiren, U6 girls, Goku Black, and some other DBS characters when it comes to popularity.

Nice joke, but we all know this is total bull.

Like others have said, Jiren and the U6 girls undoubtably have their fans, but to compare them to the original cast, especially Gohan and Piccolo, is just asinine.

[LoganForkHands73]

Yeah, count me in the same boat.

The manga (and films, for that matter) has Freeza doing things truer to his character - blindsiding foes, getting humiliated in direct brawls that he unwittingly sows the seeds for, being a cruel opportunist, behaving like an actual villain. The list goes on and on.

The guy's a murderous, underhanded sociopath through and through, and by the end, they win thanks to a sneak attack that speaks to the sheer antithesis between Freeza's approach and Goku's. The story understood his role and distinguished it from the rest.

I can't get down with all the forced melodrama and "badass" cooperative moments they give him in the anime. That's just a caricature of Freeza.

I dunno, he exhibits basically the same behaviour in the anime, really. He acts sadistically and opportunistically, torturing opponents and scoring cheap K.O.s left and right. Also where was there melodrama?