Super or GT poll

[Goten_jr]

I’m kind of shocked that GT is currently leading in the poll.

I thought whoever leading would be by a vote or 2, not nearly double as what GT's doing. I really wish Kanzenshuu allowed threads to have polls, at that would give us an accurate image of where they stand compared to one another, at least among members of this one site.

Most polls on Twitter end up 80-20 or 70-30%(2k-3k voters) for Super from what I have seen I would be so interested how polls would ended if GT had the canon stamp

[Melee_Sovereign]

Confession. I have never actually watched through GT completely. I couldn't bare it after like episode 15.

[Matches Malone]

I would be so interested how polls would ended if GT had the canon stamp.

Super has definitely benefited from Toriyama's name being attached to it, it's just a shame the fans who defend it for that don't realize his involvement is nowhere near as much as they believe it to be.

Confession. I have never actually watched through GT completely. I couldn't bare it after like episode 15.

This is exactly why Funimation skipped those episodes and went directly into 16. You should give it another chance, this time skip episodes 6-15.

[Mad Swami]

I’m kind of shocked that GT is currently leading in the poll.

I thought whoever leading would be by a vote or 2, not nearly double as what GT's doing. I really wish Kanzenshuu allowed threads to have polls, at that would give us an accurate image of where they stand compared to one another, at least among members of this one site.

The T.O.P's actually has some decent bits. Few bit they exist

It definitely did, I just wish things weren't dragged out so much. The arc would've been far better had those moments been used in a shorter version of it.

agreed

[Cursed Lemon]

If NOTHING else, Super wins in the animation/choreography department.

Literally every fight in GT sucks.

[Goten_jr]

If NOTHING else, Super wins in the animation/choreography department.

Literally every fight in GT sucks.

That’s the biggest advantage that Super has to GT . But I wouldn’t say that all GT fights suck I actually really like Goku vs Ledgic
Goku vs General Rildo
Goku vs Nouva
Uub vs Baby Vegeta
Goku vs Baby
Goten vs Gohan
Gohan vs Vegeta
But I definitely agree that GT has the worst Fight Choreography in all of DB including Movies,Filler&Maybe even Heroes

[Polyphase Avatron]

Casting my vote for Super. I just don't like most of the plot lines, fights, transformations, and music in GT.

[ABED]

GT has better ideas but very poor execution whereas Super has mostly unimaginative ideas, but executed pretty well. I take Super, but it's not a ringing endorsement.

[ChronoTwigger]

GT == let's try to retell old DB with some modern twist-- no wait it does suck, go for Zufuru---no wait, now what? All past enemies -- what a mess! Ok, Dragons! Good! No wait it was a kid show, hold your break, defuse tension - WTF sorry guys this is not a canon stuff.

SUPER == hey, people forgot of GT, new kids are born in the meanwhile! Let's do some plot... mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble what Toriyama said? He was all about stopping with DragonBall? Damn let's indepth on our own mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble (wtf what those people can do now...) mumble mumble mumble ok there are gods, let's them face gods. A duel of gods, a tournament made by gods, a crazy god, WHAT?! Is already time to deliver?! Go rush and pay some taiwan kid to draw the animation, hurry!! Someone bring us a detailed plot! Please! All right, let's deliver just the concept and let's hope everyone just focus on the hair recolour- idea, VIDEOGAMES! More videogames! Bomb people with videogames!

GT: 2/10 (horrible)
Super: 6/10 (yawn)

[Matches Malone]

GT: 2/10 (horrible)
Super: 6/10 (yawn)

You make both of them sound like a 2/10.

[precita]

The Universe Survival arc absolutely did not need to be as long as it was. 35 episodes of non-stop fighting in a single location is pretty exhausting, especially with how much repetition there is. How many times do the characters need to say things like “Can Goku surpass his limits” or (in the case of the Zen-Ohs) “this is so exciting”?

The vast majority of TOP eps focused on many of the other fighters and characters in that time (yes I know Goku popped up in nearly every episode for a fight, but the fights focused solely on him didn't really kick off till Kefla and the final stuff with Jiren). Goku wasn't talking about surpassing his limits in any of the earlier battles, he was just having fun.

And all the character moments in the TOP made up for it, after marathoning it I noticed how each episode focused on someone different (from both the main cast and the other universes), so I don't see how it could be shorter without literally knocking half the cast out off-screen...and the anime did send a whole bunch of fodder characters out of bounds quickly in various episodes as we know.

[Matches Malone]

GT:

Spoiler:

+ The art and animation.
+ Character designs.
+ Ssj4
+ The Baby arc.
+ The Shadow Dragons concept.
+ The ending.
+ Permanently killing off characters.
+ Goku's merciless attitude towards villains.
+ Vegeta maintaining his Buu arc development.
+ Goten and Trunks are their own characters.
+ #18 getting some meaningful screen time.
+ The episode count.
+ Not relying on nostalgia.
+ The opening and endings
+ The soundtrack.

- Goku being turned into a kid.
- The majority of adventures in space being terrible.
- Goku being the only one to accomplish anything.
- Freeza and Cell being a joke.
- The Super 17 arc being way to short.
- Uub more or less being wasted.
- 4 out of the 7 shadow dragons being wasted.
- The fights having little to no hand to hand choreography.
- Both Ssj4 Vegeta and Gogeta being useless.
- Pan getting so much screen time that doesn't amount to anything.

So, here's my list for Super...I'm not looking forward to this.

+Beerus and Whis in BOG.
+SsjG in BOG.
+ Vegeta getting important screen time throughout.
+ Goku Black.
+ The concept of Zamasu.
+UI Omen.
+ Freeza in the TOP
+ Great fights (generally speaking).
+ The Multiverse concept.
+ Champa and Vados.
+ Roshi in the TOP.
+ Vegeta's potential as a teacher to Cabba.
+ Goku and Freeza's team up against Jiren.
+ RF having an improved ending compared to the movie
+ The opening and ending songs.

- The stories being set pre-EOZ.
- The cheap looking art and animation.
- Episode 5...enough said.
- Starting with inferior retellings of better movies.
- SsjG having the power to heal...just once...because.
- Piccolo's "death" in RF.
- Gohan being regressed to nothing.
- Beerus and Whis post-BOG.
- Goku being written as if he only had 2 brain cells.
- Vegeta obsession over Goku.
- SsjB, Rose, & MUI
- Piccolo, Buu, & Monaka amounting to nothing in Champa's tournament.
- Frost ending up as nothing more than a Freeza rip off.
- Goku and Hit ending their fight prematurely due to the "rules".
- Cabba's relationship with Vegeta not really going anywhere.
- Caulifla being a Mary Sue.
- Kale being a Broly rip off
- Ssj being reduced to "feeling something in your back".
- Everything to do with Rebrianne and her friends.
- The TOP arc lasting for FIFTY FIVE episodes long.
- Jiren being the worst antagonist in the franchise's history.
- Future Trunks being a Gary stu (I think that's the term).
- Zamasu's entire motivation revolving around mindless beasts attacking him.
- Vegetto's "time limit".
- Future Trunks and Mai ending up in a...mirror timeline (?) of their original.
- Common sense power scaling being thrown out the window.
- The tournament of power having no consequences.
- 5 of the 11 new universes being completely wasted.
- Gohan going from 0 to mystic in one day of training with Piccolo.
- A good number of the cast being parodies of their former selves.
- Roshi's recruitment episode.
- The copy Vegeta arc.
- The status quo barely changing, if at all.
- Goten and Trunks.
- The constant call backs to previous events.

15 positives and 35 negatives averages out to 30%. Despite GT's flaws, it still manages to be an average sequel with a 60% rating, which is obviously below what you'd expect from DB, but at least it's not outright terrible. Super on the other hand, as seen above, isn't even that, it's just bad.

[Skar]

Another one of these threads . I've ranted about what I didn't like about GT and Super in the past and rather forgot about them now. I'll only lists what I felt were the positives.

GT
+Goku's characterization.
+Retired characters were allowed to stayed retired.
+The concept of an Oozaru/SSJ form as the final transformation.

Super
+Some of the new characters such as Beerus, Whis, Hit, and some other tournament contestants.
+The concept of a multiverse to introduce stronger opponents.
+DBS Broly.
+Set before EoZ. I know this is a negative for most fans but I prefer revivals to leave a story's ending intact.

[ABED]

But it doesn't keep the meaning of that ending in tact.

- Future Trunks and Mai ending up in a...mirror timeline (?) of their original.

Why does this bother anyone?

- Caulifla being a Mary Sue.

Mary Sue isn't a thing.

[Matches Malone]

Why does this bother anyone?

Mary Sue isn't a thing.

Because it makes the ending seem pointless. Why not just make him a time patrol member or allow him to remain in the present ?

"A Mary Sue is a generic name for any fictional character (usually female) who is so competent or perfect that this appears unrealistic for the world's settings, even in the context of the fictional setting".

[ABED]

I know what a Mary Sue is supposed to mean but it's a BS term. Plenty of iconic characters fall into that category. Batman, Sherlock Holmes, James Bond - all great at everything.

I don't know why it has to be explained that him getting some version of his home is meant to be a happy ending. That's the point. It may be a rehash but it's clearly what they were going for. The level to which this seems to bother people feels ridiculous.

[Skar]

But it doesn't keep the meaning of that ending in tact.

True but what's done is done and only way to retain the original meaning would be a reset or something. The Moro arc implies Uub inherited Grand Kaioshin's god ki so I guess that's what they're going with to explain why Goku would still be excited to train and have a rematch with Uub once DBS ends.

[WittyUsername]

The Universe Survival arc absolutely did not need to be as long as it was. 35 episodes of non-stop fighting in a single location is pretty exhausting, especially with how much repetition there is. How many times do the characters need to say things like “Can Goku surpass his limits” or (in the case of the Zen-Ohs) “this is so exciting”?

The vast majority of TOP eps focused on many of the other fighters and characters in that time (yes I know Goku popped up in nearly every episode for a fight, but the fights focused solely on him didn't really kick off till Kefla and the final stuff with Jiren). Goku wasn't talking about surpassing his limits in any of the earlier battles, he was just having fun.

And all the character moments in the TOP made up for it, after marathoning it I noticed how each episode focused on someone different (from both the main cast and the other universes), so I don't see how it could be shorter without literally knocking half the cast out off-screen...and the anime did send a whole bunch of fodder characters out of bounds quickly in various episodes as we know.

They could’ve given the other characters their time in the limelight while also making the tournament a good 10 or so episodes shorter. Besides, Kuririn and Tenshinhan each only received one episode of focus, and Roshi only received two.

[precita]

They could’ve given the other characters their time in the limelight while also making the tournament a good 10 or so episodes shorter. Besides, Kuririn and Tenshinhan each only received one episode of focus, and Roshi only received two.

I mean that's what I was getting at, if the tournament was shorter most of the main cast would have gotten very little screentime similar to Krillin and especially Tenshinhan. I was fine with Krillin's focus, but look at how many people were disappointed they did so little before being knocked out. Had the tournament been only 20 episodes, virtually nobody would get much a chance to do anything since the focus of the story would have been on Goku/Kefla and then the final Toppo/Jiren/Freeza/17/Goku stuff with everything else rushed or tossed aside, and there would have been even more complaining.

I marathoned each episode and every ep focused on a different character or different opponent from the other universes. We got:

Krillin/18 teaming up
Roshi got two full episodes (took out 3 U4 fighters, then the Frost episode)
17 and 18 teaming up with Goku, 18 helping out against the Pride troopers and Ribrianne
Gohan and Piccolo vs. the U10 fighters, the sniper ep, then the Namek fighters
17's focus eps against the werewolf girl and then the final stuff
Freeza pretending to work with Frost against Gohan, Freeza and Goku

Kale's initial Broly rampage, then Caulifa/Kale vs. Pride troopers
Kefla vs. Goku
Trio of Danger getting an ep for their universe to be wiped out first
Hit got two episodes (against Dyspo then Jiren)
Cabba vs. Vegeta
Botamo vs. Gohan, Botamo/Magetta vs. Vegeta
Ribrianne and then love fighters got an episode and final ep
The Unvierse 3 robot/machine fighters and how they all merged together for a giant fight at the end
etc.


Nearly all of this stuff would not have happened outside the big story stuff (Kefla, the finale Jiren/Toppo stuff), and all of this would have been off-screen or severely rushed. We also got a lot of unique attacks and fighting styles we normally don't see in Dragonball like snipers, ice element attacks, love based attacks, liquid/morphing fighters, etc...a lot of this we never really saw before in the show.

I'd take all this over seeing what happened to Tenshihan, who should have gotten a full episode as well. If the TOP knocked the entire main cast out without doing much, I would have been pissed and that's why I don't like the manga version.

[ChronoTwigger]

GT: 2/10 (horrible)
Super: 6/10 (yawn)

You make both of them sound like a 2/10.

At least Super was consistent with the starting theme (and got a theme), GT started randomly and changed midrun.