Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Triggered Vegeta]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

You could say Moro(7-3)(Post Merus) > Moro(vs UI) but it's hard to say as Moro didn't power up at all vs Merus... Also even tho Moro didn't have his crystals, his full power was restored after the Senzu. As we saw even that Moro didn't fair well at all. Even hurt himself trying to stab Goku.

[FishermanJohnWest]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

You could say Moro(7-3)(Post Merus) > Moro(vs UI) but it's hard to say as Moro didn't power up at all vs Merus... Also even tho Moro didn't have his crystals, his full power was restored after the Senzu. As we saw even that Moro didn't fair well at all. Even hurt himself trying to stab Goku.

The senzu wouldn't have restore Moro to the same power as when he fought Merus though

[FishermanJohnWest]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

Wait, how is that confirmation?

Moro73 who Merus fought had all of Vegeta and Piccolo abilities, the one who Goku fought didn't have them abilities cause breaking the crystals on the persons head equates to erasing the stored powers

[Triggered Vegeta]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

You could say Moro(7-3)(Post Merus) > Moro(vs UI) but it's hard to say as Moro didn't power up at all vs Merus... Also even tho Moro didn't have his crystals, his full power was restored after the Senzu. As we saw even that Moro didn't fair well at all. Even hurt himself trying to stab Goku.

The senzu wouldn't have restore Moro to the same power as when he fought Merus though

Even if that were the case, Goku could hang in there with Moro(Merus) so I'd say he could do the same to any version of Moro prior.

[Thani]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

Wait, how is that confirmation?

Moro73 who Merus fought had all of Vegeta and Piccolo abilities, the one who Goku fought didn't have them abilities cause breaking the crystals on the persons head equates to erasing the stored powers

That's actually a good point, but, 7-3 doesn't copy power levels. He only copies the abilities, that work with the same power as the original. So Moro-73 didn't actually get weaker when Merus wrecked him - he just lost his copied powers and was stuck with just his own abilities, and he already was stronger than anyone else at that point anyway.

He lost versatility, not power.

[ZombieVito]

Wait, how is that confirmation?

Moro73 who Merus fought had all of Vegeta and Piccolo abilities, the one who Goku fought didn't have them abilities cause breaking the crystals on the persons head equates to erasing the stored powers

That's actually a good point, but, 7-3 doesn't copy power levels. He only copies the abilities, that work with the same power as the original. So Moro-73 didn't actually get weaker when Merus wrecked him - he just lost his copied powers and was stuck with just his own abilities, and he already was stronger than anyone else at that point anyway.

He lost versatility, not power.

73 copies power as well.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Moro73 who Merus fought had all of Vegeta and Piccolo abilities, the one who Goku fought didn't have them abilities cause breaking the crystals on the persons head equates to erasing the stored powers

That's actually a good point, but, 7-3 doesn't copy power levels. He only copies the abilities, that work with the same power as the original. So Moro-73 didn't actually get weaker when Merus wrecked him - he just lost his copied powers and was stuck with just his own abilities, and he already was stronger than anyone else at that point anyway.

He lost versatility, not power.

73 copies power as well.

Not unless he's doing a full back-up of the person in question, he doesn't - remember that Android 17 thinks OG73-I is "pretty weak" even when he's using Moro's ability set. He can use abilities to the same power (even if just punches and kicks), but it doesn't mean he has the intrinsic ki power of the person whose abilities he's copying.

[Dragon Wukong]

73 copies power as well.

It's somewhat inconsistent. Besides Moro backing himself up in Seven-Three it seems like only the abilities are copied. Seven-Three's increase in strength when copying Gohan can potentially be argued as him copying "Potential Unleashed".

Well in the end I don't think it matters all that much or changes anything.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Seven-Three's increase in strength when copying Gohan can potentially be argued as him copying "Potential Unleashed".

I'd say it's more like Gohan's abilities are stronger than Piccolo's, including being able to just hit harder, and that's all there is to it. I don't think we need to go fishing for anything more esoteric than that.

[Hugo Boss]

Without training or absorbing energy, Moro was weak as hell, even Vegeta said his normal power was garbage

Compared to what he can be, maybe, but that’s not what Goku was talking about. The level of power that Moro can naturally sustain is very high. In another hand, you have Jiren who dedicated his life to training in order to be that strong. Goku basically thought about that. If Moro trained, like Freeza for example, he could possibly surpass Merus.

But then the tough statement wouldn't really apply to power then cause Goku is referencing Moro natural power and what he can possibly be yet his natural power is just trash to other characters who Goku fought previously. For Goku to feel it's such a shame, yet knows that their is people who are > Moro naturally is confusing.

Who knows, we will see in the future I guess, Moro also uses the word tough in correlation to his body sustaining the power so who knows

He is not talking about the decrepit version of Moro getting stronger through training. Imagine that Jiren and Moro are comparable, for example, but Moro didn’t have to work hard for it. That’s more or less what Goku is telling us. If Moro had a different approach he would be in a much different class.

[ZombieVito]

73 copies power as well.

It's somewhat inconsistent. Besides Moro backing himself up in Seven-Three it seems like only the abilities are copied. Seven-Three's increase in strength when copying Gohan can potentially be argued as him copying "Potential Unleashed".

Well in the end I don't think it matters all that much or changes anything.

Incosistencies? On Toyo's manga? NO WAY.

[Dragon Wukong]

Incosistencies? On Toyo's manga? NO WAY.

Well either that or the Moro back-up was a unique case. Everything else certainly seems to just be a copying of abilities. I wouldn't be surprised if the Moro back-up was a unique instance of something Seven-Three can do.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Moro back-up was a unique instance of something Seven-Three can do.

That certainly seems to be what Moro indicates, since he differentiates what OG73-I has done in his case from what he might've been expected to do.

[ZombieVito]

Incosistencies? On Toyo's manga? NO WAY.

Well either that or the Moro back-up was a unique case. Everything else certainly seems to just be a copying of abilities. I wouldn't be surprised if the Moro back-up was a unique instance of something Seven-Three can do.

I was being sarcastic.

The manga is full of them lol.

[Dragon Wukong]

I was being sarcastic.

The manga is full of them lol.

I know. I humored a genuine response because criticizing the manga over a (minor, potentially even explainable) inconsistency feels relatively pointless when discussing Dragon Ball Super (or heck, just Dragon Ball) in general. The anime has a ton of inconsistencies. Dragon Ball itself is full of inconsistencies. How about we go back to strength discussion.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Compared to what he can be, maybe, but that’s not what Goku was talking about. The level of power that Moro can naturally sustain is very high. In another hand, you have Jiren who dedicated his life to training in order to be that strong. Goku basically thought about that. If Moro trained, like Freeza for example, he could possibly surpass Merus.

But then the tough statement wouldn't really apply to power then cause Goku is referencing Moro natural power and what he can possibly be yet his natural power is just trash to other characters who Goku fought previously. For Goku to feel it's such a shame, yet knows that their is people who are > Moro naturally is confusing.

Who knows, we will see in the future I guess, Moro also uses the word tough in correlation to his body sustaining the power so who knows

He is not talking about the decrepit version of Moro getting stronger through training. Imagine that Jiren and Moro are comparable, for example, but Moro didn’t have to work hard for it. That’s more or less what Goku is telling us. If Moro had a different approach he would be in a much different class.

The issue still stands, if tough was meant to mean strong, then Goku is saying he never came across anyone as strong as Moro, which is not making any sense seeing how Merus was whooping Moro ass before and Goku fought him for months before, and their is Whis who Goku knows is > Moro

[Hugo Boss]

The issue still stands, if tough was meant to mean strong, then Goku is saying he never came across anyone as strong as Moro, which is not making any sense seeing how Merus was whooping Moro ass before and Goku fought him for months before, and their is Whis who Goku knows is > Moro

Subtext: he is talking about his arch-enemies, like Jiren or Hit. His teachers are on another level.

[FishermanJohnWest]

The issue still stands, if tough was meant to mean strong, then Goku is saying he never came across anyone as strong as Moro, which is not making any sense seeing how Merus was whooping Moro ass before and Goku fought him for months before, and their is Whis who Goku knows is > Moro

Subtext: he is talking about his arch-enemies, like Jiren or Hit. His teachers are on another level.

Problem is he is saying he never came across anyone, meaning it who Goku meet in general, not his previous foes.

[GodVegetto91]

the chapter confirms that Moro73 who fought Merus was > Moro73 who fought Goku MUI

Whis: Goku... In order to stop Moro you must once more destroy the crystal on his head and erase Merus's power.
Goku: Destroy the crystal?! Just like Merus did?
Whis: Yes. If it all goes well then you can just destroy Moro and save the Earth.

So Moro73 who one-shot Omen > moro73 who got beaten up by MUI

seems like MUI ain't as big as we thought

All the characters Moro 73 had copied were weaker than him. So it doesn’t matter if he lost their power. Hell, even Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta was already weaker than him! So he wouldn’t lose any power. Only their abilities/techniques. And the copied powers of Prime Moro were entirely his own. So that would never go away.

[Hugo Boss]

The issue still stands, if tough was meant to mean strong, then Goku is saying he never came across anyone as strong as Moro, which is not making any sense seeing how Merus was whooping Moro ass before and Goku fought him for months before, and their is Whis who Goku knows is > Moro

Subtext: he is talking about his arch-enemies, like Jiren or Hit. His teachers are on another level.

Problem is he is saying he never came across anyone, meaning it who Goku meet in general, not his previous foes.

You might as well think that Goku said Moro is tougher than Grand Priest if you want to be pedantic about it. But that’s not really what he is implying.