Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Xeno Goku Black]

It’s good logic, actually! The truth is, there are 5 transformations above a Base Vegito/Gogeta that is already significantly superior to Goku’s perfected SSJ Blue form.

So? That doesn't mean anything. The other three transformations could be significantly superior to a greater degree that it surpasses that.

You said Broly is equal to Beerus. Moro is even stronger than Broly. Ultra Instinct Goku was much stronger than Moro than Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta was compared to Broly.

You take Ultra Instinct Goku as he was in this chapter and pit him against Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta or Vegito and he's obviously stronger.

There's no question about it. For all we know even Moro Seven-Three could be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta.

[FishermanJohnWest]

It’s good logic, actually! The truth is, there are 5 transformations above a Base Vegito/Gogeta that is already significantly superior to Goku’s perfected SSJ Blue form.

So? That doesn't mean anything. The other three transformations could be significantly superior to a greater degree that it surpasses that.

You said Broly is equal to Beerus. Moro is even stronger than Broly. Ultra Instinct Goku was much stronger than Moro than Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta was compared to Broly.

You take Ultra Instinct Goku as he was in this chapter and pit him against Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta or Vegito and he's obviously stronger.

There's no question about it. For all we know even Moro Seven-Three could be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta.

Prove Moro or UI Goku are more powerful then Broly, everyone standing in power depends heavily on Beerus, and UI right now doesn't mean to match Beerus just yet. So Moro or UI ain't as powerful as Broly until they rival Beerus at least, if not surpass him

[FishermanJohnWest]

The manga hinted at a 10x difference between god and blue.

The previous chapter was clear enough: Moro > Broly, and UI Goku did to Moro what Gogeta could not do to Broly.

I mean, how can one argue against Goku just standing there and breaking Moro's wrist?

What proves Moro > Broly? He has nothing proving he is as strong as Broly if he isn't Beerus level

[Xeno Goku Black]

Prove Moro or UI Goku are more powerful then Broly, everyone standing in power depends heavily on Beerus, and UI right now doesn't mean to match Beerus just yet. So Moro or UI ain't as powerful as Broly until they rival Beerus at least, if not surpass him

Ultra Instinct Goku is stronger than Moro who was said to be stronger than Broly.

Where Beerus fits into the mix doesn't even matter.

[Koitsukai]

The manga hinted at a 10x difference between god and blue.

The previous chapter was clear enough: Moro > Broly, and UI Goku did to Moro what Gogeta could not do to Broly.

I mean, how can one argue against Goku just standing there and breaking Moro's wrist?

What proves Moro > Broly? He has nothing proving he is as strong as Broly if he isn't Beerus level

Eh... Goku placing Moro at the top of his enemies? even before going UI? or EarthUI?

[FishermanJohnWest]

Prove Moro or UI Goku are more powerful then Broly, everyone standing in power depends heavily on Beerus, and UI right now doesn't mean to match Beerus just yet. So Moro or UI ain't as powerful as Broly until they rival Beerus at least, if not surpass him

Ultra Instinct Goku is stronger than Moro who was said to be stronger than Broly.

Where Beerus fits into the mix doesn't even matter.

He never said that so where are you getting this logic from?

He fits with Broly and the fusions hence why he is scaled directly to them.

[FishermanJohnWest]

The manga hinted at a 10x difference between god and blue.

The previous chapter was clear enough: Moro > Broly, and UI Goku did to Moro what Gogeta could not do to Broly.

I mean, how can one argue against Goku just standing there and breaking Moro's wrist?

What proves Moro > Broly? He has nothing proving he is as strong as Broly if he isn't Beerus level

Eh... Goku placing Moro at the top of his enemies? even before going UI? or EarthUI?

He said he never came across someone as tough as Moro, and toughest doesn't equate to strongest. And if it did then Goku is saying he is > Merus which Goku fought for 6 months. Plus the same chapter separates tough from strong

[Koitsukai]

What proves Moro > Broly? He has nothing proving he is as strong as Broly if he isn't Beerus level

Eh... Goku placing Moro at the top of his enemies? even before going UI? or EarthUI?

He said he never came across someone as tough as Moro, and toughest doesn't equate to strongest. And if it did then Goku is saying he is > Merus which Goku fought for 6 months. Plus the same chapter separates tough from strong

It does in this context.
And Merus has nothing to do with the comment, I don't even know how one would come to that conclusion.

If your argument relies on semantics only to disprove what is pretty straightforward, then be my guest. I'm out.

[Xeno Goku Black]

He said that he was the toughest that he'd ever fought which includes Broly.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Eh... Goku placing Moro at the top of his enemies? even before going UI? or EarthUI?

He said he never came across someone as tough as Moro, and toughest doesn't equate to strongest. And if it did then Goku is saying he is > Merus which Goku fought for 6 months. Plus the same chapter separates tough from strong

It does in this context.
And Merus has nothing to do with the comment, I don't even know how one would come to that conclusion.

If your argument relies on semantics only to disprove what is pretty straightforward, then be my guest. I'm out.

Goku tough statement proves Moro was his toughest fight as it took months to beat him. Him saying that Moro could be stronger if he trained and didn't steal power yet Moro without energy stolen doesn't relate to tough statement. Same chapter separates tough from strong

And yes Merus is apart of the equation cause Goku said he never came across ANYONE. And Goku is aware of Merus power as shown in chapter 66.

So don't call it straight forward, cause if they wanted it to be straight forward then Goku would only to say he never came across anyone as STRONG as Moro, which would prove your point, but he didn't, he said tough. It's no different then Buu being called the most formidable enemy after Zamasu

[FishermanJohnWest]

He said that he was the toughest that he'd ever fought which includes Broly.

Broly wasn't a tough fight in comparison to Moro or Jiren or Zamasu, it's no different then Buu being called the most formidable enemy after Zamasu.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Right so then I suppose King Piccolo was tougher than Broly too.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Spoiler:

tough
/tʌf/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: tough; comparative adjective: tougher; superlative adjective: toughest

1.
(of a substance or object) strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough handling.

strong
/strɒŋ/

adjective: strong; comparative adjective: stronger; superlative adjective: strongest

1.
having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

Tough and Strong are not the same

Let's go further, Goku address Moro toughness beforehand



And even 18 made comments on it



In DBS chapter 65, they separate tough from power

UI get sturdier



Moro body getting Tougher



Goku body can only withstand this power when it's honed



It's clear as day, tough isn't the same as power here

[FishermanJohnWest]

Right so then I suppose King Piccolo was tougher than Broly too.

Back then yeah, he took way more effort then what they did against Broly, Gogeta came in and dealt with Broly

[Koitsukai]

He said he never came across someone as tough as Moro, and toughest doesn't equate to strongest. And if it did then Goku is saying he is > Merus which Goku fought for 6 months. Plus the same chapter separates tough from strong

It does in this context.
And Merus has nothing to do with the comment, I don't even know how one would come to that conclusion.

If your argument relies on semantics only to disprove what is pretty straightforward, then be my guest. I'm out.

Goku tough statement proves Moro was his toughest fight as it took months to beat him. Him saying that Moro could be stronger if he trained and didn't steal power yet Moro without energy stolen doesn't relate to tough statement. Same chapter separates tough from strong

And yes Merus is apart of the equation cause Goku said he never came across ANYONE. And Goku is aware of Merus power as shown in chapter 66.

So don't call it straight forward, cause if they wanted it to be straight forward then Goku would only to say he never came across anyone as STRONG as Moro, which would prove your point, but he didn't, he said tough. It's no different then Buu being called the most formidable enemy after Zamasu

Oh yeah, Goku was empashizing how long the arc was, right, because he always ranks his enemies according to how much time it took him to beat them. He'd never compare their power level.

So, that includes Whis too then. That train of thought ends up in a train wreck when you remember Merus beat Moro minutes earlier, making it quite an obvious misinterpretation.

And the Buu quote would mean a thing if it was said by Goku. It was said by Dende, so it is irrelevant.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Oh yeah, Goku was empashizing how long the arc was, right, because he always ranks his enemies according to how much time it took him to beat them. He'd never compare their power level. So, that includes Whis too then. That train of thought ends up in a train wreck when you remember Merus beat Moro minutes earlier, making it quite an obvious misinterpretation.

Doesn't do anything to my points, Goku seeing Merus fight and talking about his power, yet says he never came across ANYONE as tough as Moro proves my point itself. It shits on itself when you try to push tough as strong

And the Buu quote would mean a thing if it was said by Goku. It was said by Dende, so it is irrelevant.

Moot point, Dende also knows of Frieza and Beerus, so wrong, nothing irrelevant about it.

tough
/tʌf/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: tough; comparative adjective: tougher; superlative adjective: toughest

1.
(of a substance or object) strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough handling.

strong
/strɒŋ/

adjective: strong; comparative adjective: stronger; superlative adjective: strongest

1.
having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

Tough and Strong are not the same

Let's go further, Goku address Moro toughness beforehand



And even 18 made comments on it



In DBS chapter 65, they separate tough from power

UI get sturdier



Moro body getting Tougher



Goku body can only withstand this power when it's honed



It's clear as day, tough isn't the same as power here

[GodVegetto91]

Prove Moro or UI Goku are more powerful then Broly, everyone standing in power depends heavily on Beerus, and UI right now doesn't mean to match Beerus just yet. So Moro or UI ain't as powerful as Broly until they rival Beerus at least, if not surpass him

Ultra Instinct Goku is stronger than Moro who was said to be stronger than Broly.

Where Beerus fits into the mix doesn't even matter.

False. Tougher doesn’t mean stronger. You need to understand that. The fact is, Beerus was confident that he could take Moro out, and quickly aswell! While Goku wasn’t. And to top it off, UI Goku has NOT been compared to Beerus in any way, while Broly and Vegito Blue from the Black Arc have.

[Koitsukai]

Oh yeah, Goku was empashizing how long the arc was, right, because he always ranks his enemies according to how much time it took him to beat them. He'd never compare their power level. So, that includes Whis too then. That train of thought ends up in a train wreck when you remember Merus beat Moro minutes earlier, making it quite an obvious misinterpretation.

Doesn't do anything to my points, Goku seeing Merus fight and talking about his power, yet says he never came across ANYONE as tough as Moro proves my point itself. It shits on itself when you try to push tough as strong

And the Buu quote would mean a thing if it was said by Goku. It was said by Dende, so it is irrelevant.

Moot point, Dende also knows of Frieza and Beerus, so wrong, nothing irrelevant about it.

It does disprove your points, because the previous fight shows it's not going through the line of thought you think it goes. "You are stronger than Merus, the guy that just beat you" and it should include Whis too. Nah, it involves Jiren and Broly, another guy incredibly durable and "tough".

And it is irrelevant because you are talking about what GOKU SAID by using what someone else SAID. Show me Goku calling someone who is not the strongest, the most formidable enemy ever and I'll buy it. Even if that were the case, the context in Ch. 65 supports the toughest=strongest.

Also, using your own logic, when people commended on Moro's toughness, they are basically saying "damn, it's been months with this guy"

False. Tougher doesn’t mean stronger. You need to understand that. The fact is, Beerus was confident that he could take Moro out, and quickly aswell! While Goku wasn’t. And to top it off, UI Goku has NOT been compared to Beerus in any way, while Broly and Vegito Blue from the Black Arc have.

This isn't true. The quickly part specially, he would've done it before going to see the GP. Also he never said he'd do it on his own, he said he'd lend a hand, something similar to what Vegeta ended up doing. Plus, he knew what Moro's weakspot was. Totally unrelated to power levels.

Also, you are dropping the whole next enemy stronger than the previous one thing, right?

[FishermanJohnWest]

It does disprove your points, because the previous fight shows it's not going through the line of thought you think it goes. "You are stronger than Merus, the guy that just beat you" and it should include Whis too. Nah, it involves Jiren and Broly, another guy incredibly durable and "tough".

he doesn't need to specifically talk about Merus just how he doesn't need to specifically talk about Broly or Jiren, cause when Goku says ANYONE then he is mentioning them all.

And it is irrelevant because you are talking about what GOKU SAID by using what someone else SAID. Show me Goku calling someone who is not the strongest, the most formidable enemy ever and I'll buy it. Even if that were the case, the context in Ch. 65 supports the toughest=strongest.

Doesn't matter who said it lol you can't discredit something cause someone else other then Goku said it. Dende was their, he knows, he isn't an idiot, only reason why Buu was the most formidable cause it was much was difficult to deal with, not cause he was stronger, same as Moro being called tough. And Chapter 65 consistently kept pushing that tough is just something you can endure as the meaning suggest, from sturdier, to honing and Moro body needing to be tougher to handle Merus power.

[Hugo Boss]

Also he never said he'd do it on his own, he said he'd lend a hand, something similar to what Vegeta ended up doing. Plus, he knew what Moro's weakspot was. Totally unrelated to power levels.

I never considered this, but it also makes sense. Good call. But I don’t see how it is totally unrelated to power levels. Vegeta-Oob combo basically revolved around feeding Goku with enough god ki to make his assault effective. Wouldn’t Beerus play at least a substitutive role?