Vegeta's current development is really a good change?

[Tai Lung]

There is no doubt that Vegeta's character is the one that has had the most changes over time .. that is really should be good so that he does not feel a flat character, however how have these changes been today?
Some think that it has become boring personally I do not think so ... but I do believe that there have been changes that have been forced on the character and that affect him negatively as some cases



-Follow the same teachings as the goku masters ... for someone like vegeta who prefers to follow his own path, his decision feels strange, I understand that whis was the most suitable to teach the SSB but then the yadrats came, it still seems that he is behind Goku ...
-his interest in cabba feels forced ... at first I thought that the ideal for vegeta was to be more interested in others and make his own friends and allies in his battles but it really does not make sense considering that it is not something continuous ... since he does not care about anyone else like ... caulifla or kale not even broly even though they are somehow related in his past
-Vegeta doubts more and more in murdering the villains .. this really feels that he is going against his character and makes him more like goku than he should

In any case, his progress has been quite good, removing exceptions, but don't know what you think

[Ziegander]

Hmm... yeah, for a lot of his development, I've liked it, but you raise some interesting points.

If Vegeta were to truly forge his own path, as SSBE seemed to evidence, then learning from Whis and learning from the Yardrats, to master just about every technique Goku ever learned, after Goku had mastered them? Feels awkward at best and detrimental and counter-productive at worst.

But then what would Vegeta ACTUALLY DO, if he were to truly follow his own path and do his own training and come up with his own techniques and transformations???

Whatever he wants, obviously, but Dragon Ball Super has not shown any willingness to actually show Vegeta DOING any of that. Not yet, anyway.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t think Vegeta’s development is that similar to Goku’s. I mean, he used instant teleportation and spirit bomb once, because he needed and he has such a high level of spiritual sense. But it doesn’t seem like he will focus on mastering them. Forced spirit fission seems to be his main goal. Perhaps he will learn something entirely different in the future.

Also, when did he felt hesitant on killing villains?

[Tai Lung]

Also, when did he felt hesitant on killing villains?

1.- When Vegeta fights with the criminals allied of Moro, just like Goku, he restrained himself from killing them ... which resulted in a serious error for them ....


2.- When Vegeta fights with that criminal of the same zarbon race ... he proposed to leave him alive if he going again the galactic prison


3.- he ask Jako if he should killed Moro or left him alive ... at the risk of he escaping again

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see nothing on those panels similar to what Goku does. He is just not going on killing sprees, he has no qualms on whether they live or not. Seems like a subtle threat (the third one less than the second) to be honest.

[Tai Lung]

I don’t see nothing on those panels similar to what Goku does. He is just not going on killing sprees, he has no qualms on whether they live or not. Seems like a subtle threat (the third one less than the second) to be honest.

Vegeta never spare the lives of villains ... especially since they would be dangerous ... he is not goku to feel morally affected or to believe that others are going to change
he himself criticized goku for being so soft ...

maybe a comparison is better

Spoiler:

[Chuquita]

An aside; seeing those old, flipped, Planet Namek scans in all their crunchy quality is so nostalgic. That they still float around the internet decades later despite that quality is something else.

Vegeta's been...interesting this arc in that he feels author-possessed at points while waffling in others. I like him best when he's interacting with Goku and the two of them just didn't have much interaction this long arc. (Not much memorable for me anyway.) His paradox is if he becomes too heroic he becomes boring since at least for me his appeal is what an almost comically stubborn hot-head Vegeta can be and how that plays off of relaxed cheerful Goku, but if Vegeta doesn't change it shows a lack of growth/maturity.

[Hugo Boss]

maybe a comparison is better

Are you sure that comparing his current version with Freeza and Boo arcs are fair comparisons? Boo Arc was where he truly started to change. And he did spared Majin Boo, despite his threat.

[Tai Lung]

maybe a comparison is better

Are you sure that comparing his current version with Freeza and Boo arcs are fair comparisons? Boo Arc was where he truly started to change. And he did spared Majin Boo, despite his threat.

Vegeta just forgave him ... because
-mr satan was in the middle
-buu saved him in the battle with kid buu
-Mr Satan saved him ...
-Mr Satan convinced the earthlings to give their energy to goku

instead Moro and his allies have killed without any remorse and Vegeta knows this ... what is the reason for hesitating to kill them?

Anyway, it's my opinion, I really suppose that it seems strange to me that it vegeta give many opportunities to ... beings that are garbage in their perspective

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t know, it just seems that Vegeta wants a good reason to not kill his opponent, while Goku wants a good reason to kill. This is as far as Vegeta progressed, the way I see.

[BWri]

I overall like the changes to Vegeta in this latest arc such as repenting his Namek era sins and learning the more spiritual and esoteric side to martial arts. It's nearly made me a fan of the character after basically thinking he's overrated my whole life. I've said it many years ago in a blog post and also on a thread here that Vegeta does need to keep some of his edge so that he doesn't become a cookie cutter good guy like characters such as Tien. Tien lost all his edge and look where he is now.

I also don't like how Akira Toriyama and Toyotaro handle morality in this series. Characters just tend to do whatever they feel like and sometimes suddenly grow a moral compass and then forget about it. I think Vegeta is just the most recent victim of this. For me, it was at its worst during FnF/RoF. While watching I was thinking, "when did the Gohan, Piccolo, and co. become the Justice League?"

[Trek405]

This is something that has bothered me as well. Overall i think vegeta has had good moments in modern dragon ball but it's been kind of awkward when viewed as a whole.

Vegetas' interest in cabba early on was great to me. To see vegeta motivate another fellow saiyan and push him to be the best was great. His intrest in visiting planet sadala had a lot of potential for an intresting storyline. However it seemed to go nowhere after the U6 arc and vegeta's relationship with cabba went nowhere. The whole "master student" thing they were going with became forced since they hadn't had any meaningful interactions at all since then. I really doubt we'll ever see him visit sadala at this point.

Vegeta attempting to "go his own way" also feels unsatifying up to this point. Again, i do like the idea and feel like it has potential but that's really all it is for now, potential. Ssbe is underwhelming and forced spirit fission/spirit control also felt like a let down. UI feels like the pinnacle of power atm so i doubt vegeta will find anything out there that will put him up to par with that. Even then that's okay as long as he's making progress and is regarded as a true heavy hitter among the goku/beerus/jirens of the world but as of right now he seems a tier below. Will they bother to expand on this? Again i don't know.

As for vegeta's personality? I like it for the most part but i do miss when vegeta felt like an active character. He always made things happen that impacted the plot, good and bad. Lately tho it feels like he's just gokus tsundere buddy who tags along and comments on how goku is an idiot or whatever. Where's the old vegeta who made reckless decisions, who talked smack, who enjoyed styling on his opponents? He seems way too uptight nowadays. Also i don't think vegeta should ever be too moral. He can change his outlook and behavior without losing his edge or getting too edgy. It's about balance

Overall i do enjoy vegeta (obviously) and they've shown they can incorporate new ideas around him but the problem is expanding on them. He's a super popolular fan favorite so ofc he has to be around but i feel like he's bern stagnant for a while now. The groundwork is there they just need to build up and pay it off.

[Kinokima]

This is something that has bothered me as well. Overall i think vegeta has had good moments in modern dragon ball but it's been kind of awkward when viewed as a whole.

Vegetas' interest in cabba early on was great to me. To see vegeta motivate another fellow saiyan and push him to be the best was great. His intrest in visiting planet sadala had a lot of potential for an intresting storyline. However it seemed to go nowhere after the U6 arc and vegeta's relationship with cabba went nowhere. The whole "master student" thing they were going with became forced since they hadn't had any meaningful interactions at all since then. I really doubt we'll ever see him visit sadala at this point.

Vegeta attempting to "go his own way" also feels unsatifying up to this point. Again, i do like the idea and feel like it has potential but that's really all it is for now, potential. Ssbe is underwhelming and forced spirit fission/spirit control also felt like a let down. UI feels like the pinnacle of power atm so i doubt vegeta will find anything out there that will put him up to par with that. Even then that's okay as long as he's making progress and is regarded as a true heavy hitter among the goku/beerus/jirens of the world but as of right now he seems a tier below. Will they bother to expand on this? Again i don't know.

As for vegeta's personality? I like it for the most part but i do miss when vegeta felt like an active character. He always made things happen that impacted the plot, good and bad. Lately tho it feels like he's just gokus tsundere buddy who tags along and comments on how goku is an idiot or whatever. Where's the old vegeta who made reckless decisions, who talked smack, who enjoyed styling on his opponents? He seems way too uptight nowadays. Also i don't think vegeta should ever be too moral. He can change his outlook and behavior without losing his edge or getting too edgy. It's about balance

Overall i do enjoy vegeta (obviously) and they've shown they can incorporate new ideas around him but the problem is expanding on them. He's a super popolular fan favorite so ofc he has to be around but i feel like he's bern stagnant for a while now. The groundwork is there they just need to build up and pay it off.

I think the issue is the story often builds Vegeta up but doesn’t fully deliver. It’s like in the end someone is like but Goku is the main character so he has to always get the final focus. Even though I was content with Vegeta’s role at the end of the Moro arc I almost feel with all the build up we got for him at the end it was supposed to be more but it was changed to focus more on Goku and UI. I guess we will never know.

And I think that is fine for Vegeta to just support Goku. But I kind of wish that was the direction they went from the start instead of building up that it could be something more

As for Vegeta driving the plot in the past that is true but he normally did this by doing something wrong. I don’t want Vegeta to go backwards again just to drive the plot forward.

[ZeroNeonix]

Vegeta is less bloodthirsty now, but that's because he is actually a good person now. He used to enjoy killing, but now he only does it when he thinks it's necessary. Specifically when he believes a villain is too dangerous to be left alive. For example, he wanted to kill Fat Buu, but left him alive out of mercy. But he also attempted to kill Broly, because he saw the Saiyan as a mindless, rampaging monster. Which he basically was after letting loose. Goku saw good in Broly's heart, but Vegeta just saw danger.

As for his relationship with Cabba, Vegeta has always had a lot of Saiyan pride. For a long time, he and Goku were the only ones left. Then he learns there's a whole planet of Saiyans left, who followed a different path than the ones he knew. He was disappointed with how little pride their most powerful warrior had. He took it upon himself to fix that, accidentally taking on the role of teacher. The only thing that strikes me as odd about this is that he just assumed Cabba could transform. Vegeta, just because you had your Super Saiyan bargain sale in your universe doesn't mean EVERY Saiyan can do it now. It's still a legendary form, even if it is obsolete now.

Vegeta didn't get talk with Caulifla or Kale very much, but if he had, he probably would have seen that Caulifla had plenty of pride. And she already knew how to transform, so she didn't need his help. And Kale...he probably would have considered a lost cause. Too timid and frail for him to work with. He probably would have been embarrassed to he associated with her. Until she went ballistic anyway...

[Trek405]

I think the issue is the story often builds Vegeta up but doesn’t fully deliver. It’s like in the end someone is like but Goku is the main character so he has to always get the final focus. Even though I was content with Vegeta’s role at the end of the Moro arc I almost feel with all the build up we got for him at the end it was supposed to be more but it was changed to focus more on Goku and UI. I guess we will never know.

Yeah i thought his role at the climax was decent but his yardrat training still didn't wow me like I'd hoped. Tbh after moro stole his abilities forced spirit fission really felt like just an excuse for why goku and vegeta wouldn't be able to fuse this time around. Luckily it did make itself useful in the end or i really would've been disappointed. Now i want to see where it goes from here.

as for Vegeta driving the plot in the past that is true but he normally did this by doing something wrong. I don’t want Vegeta to go backwards again just to drive the plot forward.

Yes but vegeta's decisions in the past (even the bad ones) were consistent with his characterization and personality. Vegeta has made a lot of progress since then so he's not going to allow the villains to power up on purpose or anything like that, but I'd still like to see a reckless decision or a curveball here and there to keep things fresh. That's why i liked him running off on his own and seperating himself from the group to go to yardrat. I'd like to see more of things like that.

[Psajdak]

There is only so far you can get a character whose arc was completed decades ago, and in a way multiple times:

- first time being killed by Freeza
- deciding never to fight again by the end of Cell saga
- self-destruction in Buu saga
- end of Buu saga, as well as EoZ
- the way he is in DBGT

[precita]

I much prefered how relaxed he was at the end of Boo arc and early/mid GT. That's where he should go instead of Super more or less feeding into his obsession with Goku again