I can’t believe we still haven’t gotten a proper backstory on Beerus and Whis yet after all these years..

[GodVegetto91]

We know that Beerus and Champa are twin brothers and thus born on the same day. That they were in all likelihood strong mortals before being promoted to GoD, and that Whis and Vados are siblings with Vados being the older one.

But exactly HOW old are Beerus and Champa?

We know that they are at least 200 million years old.. (as Beerus stated that he has lived for “hundreds of millions” of years in Episode 5 of Super)... But that’s not very specific..

Is he over 200 mil? 300 mil?

900 mil???!

No answer!

Whis and Vados are likely billions of years old, but no exact number has been given to them either.

The writers are really lazy and careless to not even give us such basic info about the characters that are most relevant to the story and are always present!

Why can’t they show us a flashback to baby Beerus and Champa when they were born...? How they grew up, what planet, universe they lived on/in. How they trained and how/if they became so powerful. How they met Whis and Vados, how actually their promotion to GoD went. What exact training they underwent and how they got introduced and affiliated with the Grand Priest and the Omni-King’s.

Etc etc.

I’m sure you can think of many things/unanswered questions they can put in there..

What do you think?

[VegettoEX]

The writers are really lazy and careless to not even give us such basic info about the characters that are most relevant to the story and are always present!

I take extreme issue with this statement.

Toei's writers, and even Toriyama himself, are terrible when it comes to wholesale creating and establishing specific "lore" in the series. It's not Toriyama's strength. At all.

Toriyama is fantastic at inadvertently creating lore by way of window dressing and natural character interactions.

Learning who Beerus and Champa's father is where they were born and their blood type and what training they did and how they got their position and how long it's been... these are just bullet points that ultimately tell us nothing of any importance what-so-ever that is relevant to the world and characters right now.

I say this as someone who's really flopped on this opinion over time. In my past, I really wanted the same kinds of things. Tell me everything about them. Give me drip feeds of specific particulars.

Nope. No thanks, now. Give me great interactions first and foremost, and if you happen drop some nuggets along the way by nature of telling the current story, that's OK, too.

And with that all said / in mind, I'm conflicted over some of the specific flashback story sequences we get, primarily in the manga version of Super. Trunks fighting Dabra is... neat, I suppose. We get to see for ourselves what happened there. But it's all in service of telling the current story and setting up what Trunks' new role is. Seeing the old Galactic Police capturing Moro alongside Dai Kaioshin is neat to see, but we also didn't NEED to see it; everything was already clearly foreshadowed, explained, and delivered on without NEEDING to explain all that.

Those are just two examples, but I do ultimately like those better than what I've seen in the anime adaptation of Super, and exponentially better than anything dropped via back-of-the-book interviews.

At this point, "information" about Beerus and Whis would have to be specifically woven into a larger story about Gods of Destruction and/or angels. And that's not a story I particularly want to see in the first place, so I likewise don't particularly need that information.

[Mister_Popo]

I don't mind not getting detailed background info on all the (main) characters at all.
Why should everything be explained? Let's leave some space for imagination and speculation.

In Jirens case i would have liked to know even less than i know now.
Mystery actually fits that character.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think we need to know everything about them, I personally would be satisfied knowing how they got the position and their struggle as ningen if they ever were ningen, that is. Echoing Mike's idea, I don't see how any of that could've been added without being out of context, or a bold intention from the writers spoonfeeding us that.

What I would enjoy is to know how were their lives before getting the job, as in how was it like for them when they were in Goku and Geet's position, and their relationship with the former GoD, if there was one before them.
But I don't think it would be interesting at all if it isn't told in a scenario where Beerus is the main focus. Maybe that's where the next arc is heading (with Beerus getting called by the GP), perhaps DBS ends its runs -before EoZ, that is- delving on the most mysterious character of the series. It does suck to know SSG Goku was the second strongest Beerus ever faced, so probably everything prior to that was just small potatoes, but it could be retconned somehow.

Vados and Whis I think are as old as the universe, it doesn't seem like angels get replaced. Universes get bent before they do.

[marumuju]

Backstories are nice if they are used to enrich the narrative somehow. For example: a normally stern character is shown to have been much more careless on his youth, and this info is used to enrich the current narrative. Perhaps an old enemy from the past makes the stern character regress into careless actions, and this then has consequences.

But having specifics from a span of million years is a bit… Well, it would be a big list. And one would run out of possible letter combinations for place names. There are probably also some cases where the backstory is more interesting than the main story, but it's bad if the backstories are just lists for the sake of having lists.

If one writes with more broad strokes, there is less possibility of making accidental contradictions. And it lets the fans interact with the story by thinking of other possibilities. Tolkien fans are still debating over Middle Earth stuff 70+ years after its conception. So that's good.

[Thani]

I don't think we need to know everything about them, I personally would be satisfied knowing how they got the position and their struggle as ningen if they ever were ningen, that is. Echoing Mike's idea, I don't see how any of that could've been added without being out of context, or a bold intention from the writers spoonfeeding us that.

What I would enjoy is to know how were their lives before getting the job, as in how was it like for them when they were in Goku and Geet's position, and their relationship with the former GoD, if there was one before them.
But I don't think it would be interesting at all if it isn't told in a scenario where Beerus is the main focus. Maybe that's where the next arc is heading (with Beerus getting called by the GP), perhaps DBS ends its runs -before EoZ, that is- delving on the most mysterious character of the series. It does suck to know SSG Goku was the second strongest Beerus ever faced, so probably everything prior to that was just small potatoes, but it could be retconned somehow.

Vados and Whis I think are as old as the universe, it doesn't seem like angels get replaced. Universes get bent before they do.

Honestly, considering that Beerus claimed that Monaka was the supposedly strongest guy he ever fought, it's very likely that either he lied to Goku from the get go and SSG Goku was Beerus' strongest foe in U7 or that the real strongest guy died many years ago (since Beerus is old enough to have fought that guy in any point in time outside of a mortal's widest lifespan).

[precita]

^ Beerus knew about Freeza and Majin Boo. It's very likely they were the strongest in all of Universe 7 for millions of years until Goku.

[PurestEvil]

I personally don't think we need to know Beerus or Whis' biographies, Kai-o did not have much of a backstory himself and it wasn't necessary for the story. Then again, it would be nice to know how they were conceived/appointed to their positions.

[GodVegetto91]

The writers are really lazy and careless to not even give us such basic info about the characters that are most relevant to the story and are always present!

I take extreme issue with this statement.

Toei's writers, and even Toriyama himself, are terrible when it comes to wholesale creating and establishing specific "lore" in the series. It's not Toriyama's strength. At all.

Toriyama is fantastic at inadvertently creating lore by way of window dressing and natural character interactions.

Learning who Beerus and Champa's father is where they were born and their blood type and what training they did and how they got their position and how long it's been... these are just bullet points that ultimately tell us nothing of any importance what-so-ever that is relevant to the world and characters right now.

I say this as someone who's really flopped on this opinion over time. In my past, I really wanted the same kinds of things. Tell me everything about them. Give me drip feeds of specific particulars.

Nope. No thanks, now. Give me great interactions first and foremost, and if you happen drop some nuggets along the way by nature of telling the current story, that's OK, too.

And with that all said / in mind, I'm conflicted over some of the specific flashback story sequences we get, primarily in the manga version of Super. Trunks fighting Dabra is... neat, I suppose. We get to see for ourselves what happened there. But it's all in service of telling the current story and setting up what Trunks' new role is. Seeing the old Galactic Police capturing Moro alongside Dai Kaioshin is neat to see, but we also didn't NEED to see it; everything was already clearly foreshadowed, explained, and delivered on without NEEDING to explain all that.

Those are just two examples, but I do ultimately like those better than what I've seen in the anime adaptation of Super, and exponentially better than anything dropped via back-of-the-book interviews.

At this point, "information" about Beerus and Whis would have to be specifically woven into a larger story about Gods of Destruction and/or angels. And that's not a story I particularly want to see in the first place, so I likewise don't particularly need that information.

I mean, you’re perfectly entitled to your opinion. I just happen to strongly disagree with that kind of mindset of yours (as mine is the total opposite), but that’s perfectly fine, everyone is different afterall. I’m just the kind of guy (that if he likes something), he wants to know literally every little detail there is to know about it, I’ve always been this way. It satisfies me and makes me like the thing even more. But I am also perfectly aware that I can’t expect this type of explanation I desire, from others.. Especially the writers of Dragon Ball with their history! Although, I will say that I give my absolute gratitude and appreciation to Toyotaro for at least TRYING to give at least SOME sort of explanation for certain things. And also the fact that he remembers things better than Toriyama and actually bothers to check things, re read the manga whenever he sees fit and even checking out the old guidebooks! To that extent, I do like him better than Toriyama and Toei. Though Toriyama has better art and more beautiful drawings, Toei’s “filler additions” are sometimes things that I can highly appreciate and like better than Toriyama’s original versions (for instance, I liked Toei’s filler where they had Vegeta train under 450x earth’s normal gravity before the arrival of the Androids and unlocking Super Saiyan, and I also loved the inclusion of Vegito fighting (and even stomping) Buuhan in his Base form!) Both of these things didn’t occur in the Manga.

But to get back to my original point, I am aware that I can’t expect it from others, though I still love to complain!

I don’t like too much mystery, since it will leave me filled with questions for many years to come. And while that may be fun for a short while, it certainly ain’t forever!

But I thank you for your input.

[ZeroNeonix]

When I saw Dyspo, I thought he was going to be revealed to be from Beerus' race, and we'd get to learn a bit more about him that way. But the similarities in their appearances were only a coincidence. I also thought Beerus and Champa were twins because they were from twin universes, but nope. None of the other pairs of universes had twins as gods, so... I almost feel like I know LESS about them than I did before. lol

[Cipher]

We don't even have a proper backstory for the Fortuneteller Crone, and it's been 30+ years.

Those are just two examples, but I do ultimately like those better than what I've seen in the anime adaptation of Super, and exponentially better than anything dropped via back-of-the-book interviews.

Uh-oh. Mike has subconsciously flipped on his stance of the manga just being a comicalization.

[The Undying]

The writers are really lazy and careless to not even give us such basic info about the characters that are most relevant to the story and are always present!

However, I'm not convinced you're asking for that. Beerus saying/indicating he's hundreds of millions of years old is more than enough backstory for the character. You don't need to know exactly how old he is (and does it even matter?), you just need to know he's been around for a very, very long time.

I'd say the individual positions Beerus and Whis occupy as a God of Destruction and Angel, respectively - as well as all the surrounding details we currently have on those positions - are sufficient context for who and what they are as characters.

When I saw Dyspo, I thought he was going to be revealed to be from Beerus' race, and we'd get to learn a bit more about him that way. But the similarities in their appearances were only a coincidence.

This, however, is indeed questionable, and the anime even specifically comments on their similarities at one point, if I recall correctly. Even if Beerus and Champa are completely unrelated to Dyspo, it raises the question of where exactly they originate if they really are biological twins and not counterparts. I remember fan speculation that Beerus and Champa are Universe 11 natives because of Dyspo, which... I don't put any stock into whatsoever, but do find interesting.

[Lord Frieza]

As Harrison Ford once said “It ain’t that kind of movie.”

I would love to know the nitty gritty of everyone’s backstory, In particular that Frieza’s, his race and army, but that just not what Dragon Ball is about. You have to remember most of us western fans got dropped into a very odd part of the show with Z. The Saiyan/Frieza arc along with the Bardock Special do a lot more world building then any other point in Dragon Ball and even then it’s not very detailed in the manga and it built on more by the anime. The Android arc likewise is building off of an earlier arc and Trunks is a very atypical character for the series also.

The rest of Dragon Ball by contrast very rarely gets caught up in the tiny details of the series and, as VegettoEX says, constructs its world in bits and peices over time rather then throwing out long flash back about characters histories like say One Piece.

Toriyama just isn’t that kind of writer and DB isn’t that kind of series. While I think it dose need to shake up its formula a bit, it wouldn't be Dragon Ball if you change it to much.

[BWri]

We don't even have a proper backstory for the Fortuneteller Crone, and it's been 30+ years.

Not to mention Yamcha or even freaking Tien. I know there's not a lot of interest in these characters currently, but the point is DB rarely does backstories for even series mainstays and when they do, if its not anime original content such as Bardock: Father of Goku, then its usually not the best content.

[ZeroNeonix]

This, however, is indeed questionable, and the anime even specifically comments on their similarities at one point, if I recall correctly. Even if Beerus and Champa are completely unrelated to Dyspo, it raises the question of where exactly they originate if they really are biological twins and not counterparts. I remember fan speculation that Beerus and Champa are Universe 11 natives because of Dyspo, which... I don't put any stock into whatsoever, but do find interesting.

Yes, I think it was Whis who compared Dyspo to Beerus, and Beerus acted offended, saying they looked nothing alike. Yes, Dyspo is more of a rabbit type race, while Beerus and Champa are cats. But despite the long ears and the buck teeth of Dyspo, he still looks very similar to them. If it were up to me, I probably would have given Dyspo a different color of fur to distinguish them further away from each other, but oh well.

I like to think that Beerus had to end up destroying his own planet after becoming a god. I imagine Beerus looking down at his planet, after it had become a mess, and Whis having to remind him that he can't show any favoritism.

[Koitsukai]

This, however, is indeed questionable, and the anime even specifically comments on their similarities at one point, if I recall correctly. Even if Beerus and Champa are completely unrelated to Dyspo, it raises the question of where exactly they originate if they really are biological twins and not counterparts. I remember fan speculation that Beerus and Champa are Universe 11 natives because of Dyspo, which... I don't put any stock into whatsoever, but do find interesting.

Yes, I think it was Whis who compared Dyspo to Beerus, and Beerus acted offended, saying they looked nothing alike. Yes, Dyspo is more of a rabbit type race, while Beerus and Champa are cats. But despite the long ears and the buck teeth of Dyspo, he still looks very similar to them. If it were up to me, I probably would have given Dyspo a different color of fur to distinguish them further away from each other, but oh well.

I like to think that Beerus had to end up destroying his own planet after becoming a god. I imagine Beerus looking down at his planet, after it had become a mess, and Whis having to remind him that he can't show any favoritism.

I was made aware of the comparison not too long ago, it was actually Champa laughing at Dyspo because he looks like Beerus, and then Vados counters "then he looks like you, too", "nah, I look more like a movie star" or something like that lol.

If Beerus and Champa belong, like Dyspo, Toppo, Jiren and Vermoud, to U11, then we can safely say that universe is the home of the strongest beings in the multiverse. Fan theories could go crazy with it, saying one universe is focused on strenght, other on magic (U7, Moro, Buu, Babidi), U4 on sneakiness, and so on, but I'm just talking nonsense.

[LoganForkHands73]

I've never really seen Dyspo as a member of Beerus's species, though the fact that Champa points out their similarity in-universe is pretty funny. Yeah, I know there's clear similarities design-wise, but to me, Dyspo is a rabbit-man, Beerus is a cat-man. Tooootally different.

Anyway, to the point of the thread, I couldn't disagree more, especially the point that it's "lazy and bad writing". Ambiguity is good in stories. It's what keeps us coming back.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

As others have said above, Dragon Ball really isn't a series that is much for delving too deeply into the particulars as to the back stories in regard to certain characters. Unlike some of the other fellow Shonen mangakas out there like say Oda with One Piece and the like, it really shows how Toriyama never has been the type to write those sort of things into works over the course of his long career.

There's been tidbits revealed here and there in the series, though not so much long winded origin stories.

[DBPirate]

I really don’t think there’s any need to get the backstory of Beerus and Champa. What precedent is there for that in DB?

It’s not necessary and I would certainly not call the writers lazy for not including the backstories for supporting cast members.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Learning who Beerus and Champa's father is...

It would actually be pretty cool if he was still around and both brothers were terrified upon learning he was coming to visit...