"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kinokima]

I liked the first half of the chapter with the celebration and award ceremony. Probably the closest thing we will get to Slice of Life in the manga

As for the second part besides liking Granola’s character design. I have no opinion at all. Not much to go on yet.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Also, is this the first time its confirmed that Vegeta is the fourth one?

No, this was first confirmed in Chapter 43, at Goku and Vegeta's induction as Special Recruits into the Galactic Patrol.

It actually first comes up in Broly, during Freeza's initial meeting with Paragus.

Eh, I was talking Manga, really, given the topic (I believe that the line also came up in the Broly light novel).

Can someone remind me, were the Tuffles an anime invention by Toei or were they in the original manga? I always forget this since it seems the lore gets muddled a lot.

They're not in the manga, but they were developed with Toriyama's input - Kanzenshuu's page on this gives some nice detail.

[SSJgogeto]

The chapter was nice and I like the introduction to next arc.

Also, it's not "Granola" or "Granolla", but "Granolah"? Cool.

[Cipher]

Eh, I was talking Manga, really, given the topic (I believe that the line also came up in the Broly light novel).

Ah, fair! I thought the discussion was about where that bit of trivia first originated.

[Gt91]

My opinions:

- I'm really happy to see "that character" again. It's a really happy ending (surely for me)
- Great punishment for Beerus! He's too lazy.
- 73s have all the same data/power of the original? So they are at Merus/angel level or not?
- Granollah is not alone, he has a team, so we could see more characters in the next chapters (at least one more character).
- He has a perfect aim! One shot-one kill (maybe thanks to his "scouter")
- He knows the weakness of 73 (the crystal), maybe it's not the first time that he fights them? Or he had some informations from his team in a briefing?
- What's his purpose? Does he know that 73 has new powers now? Or he needs him for something else? Maybe informations that we don't know at the moment.
- For me, it's not a villan. Don't forget he used a non-lethal weapon against those humans on the ship. This concept has been underlined from a member of Moro's crew (73 is not human, so you cant' kill him, unlike his comrades). A whole page to tell the difference between "killed and destroyed"? Weird for me. I think these are clues.
For me, Granollah is a survivor that is trying to find out his past or something similar (i don't know, something about angels as well? We'll see).


I tried to write everything correctly. Don't forget English in not my native language

[KayDash]

We know Moro is an alien wizard who craves power and gets it by devouring souls, but like all of the other villains we don't know why.

It was actually somewhat explained in the manga about Moro. He is not really about ruling the universe, or something like, he just want to eat, to stay alive, and gaining more power is just a fortunate side-effect. As you can see, he regains youth from eating energy, and turns old, if he can't. And then he possibly dies. That's what they were waiting for in the Galactic Prison, as they weren't able to kill him as Jaco told. They just held him there until he dies. (=starves to death)
So, while we indeed don't know how he learned magic, we know that he use it for his own selfish eternal survival.
Not the deepest backstory, but I think it makes somewhat more sense then the motivation of Cell or Buu.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 67-

Moro is dead and that's cool.
Merus is alive and that's not cool. A new character like him could easily stay dead.

Keeping a boring character like A73 alive is questionable, but I will give Toyotaro the benefit of the doubt.

Granolla has a great design, but I'm not fan of his color scheme.
Next arc seems like it has an original draft written by Toriyama. Let's hope there's no tournament or the return of another old villain.

[Matches Malone]

For me, Granollah is a survivor that is trying to find out his past or something similar.

What might be likely is that he's trying to stop what he survived from. Maybe his planet was taken over and he needs help to free it.

Let's hope there's no tournament or the return of another old villain.

I don't think we have to worry about a tournament for awhile.

[DiscountDabi]

So it appears that This Oatmeel person is speeking to Granola through his eyepatch and ear piece, since he was able to scan the OG soldiers and determine their model numbers. I am somewhat inclined to believe that Oatmeel is some kind of Ai that Granola has and is the brains here. Either that or the metaphorical “Guy in the chair” character

[Kinokima]

So it appears that This Oatmeel person is speeking to Granola through his eyepatch and ear piece, since he was able to scan the OG soldiers and determine their model numbers. I am somewhat inclined to believe that Oatmeel is some kind of Ai that Granola has and is the brains here. Either that or the metaphorical “Guy in the chair” character

I thought Oatmeel was the ship or yeah an AI on Granola’s ship

But he very well could just be a character kept off sight for a reason

[emperior]

The only way Granolah is a tsufuru is if they asked Toriyama to make an arc with a similar premise to Baby’s (a tsufuru who wants to have revenge on the Saiyans).

It’s possible, considering how out of ideas Toriyama seems to be lately (apart from Res F and two arcs of Super it seems like every other idea was pitcher to him).

Right now I would say that, if I had it my way, I would like it if Granolah was the survivor of the Tsufuru race, with the goal of killing all the Saiyans.
Maybe this way Broly too could be involved.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 67:

- It's a shame that Majin Boo has no memory of his time as Grand Kaioshin. It could have served as an avenue for some significant character development. What a waste.
- I wish Vegeta had accompanied Goku to Namek. Just to properly bookend the whole atoning of his sins on Namek angle.
- I find it hilarious that Pan appears to have aged up and Goten and Trunks still remain looking like children.
- The Star Wars-esque medal ceremony was really neat. It provided a sense of prestige and legitimacy to the Galactic Patrol as it made their accomplishments actually feel recognised rather than just a background event that will never be talked about again in-universe.
- Goku giving the Galactic King a handjob is becoming my favourite recurring gag in Dragon Ball. And at this stage, Goku knows what he's doing because the Galactic King raised out his tentacle before Goku him the old rub-and-tug.
- I'm not sure how to feel about Meerus being resurrected. On one hand, his death added a much needed amount of drama and stakes to the narrative, as well providing consequences for the cast ignoring advice. But on the other hand, Meerus was the most interesting character of the arc and I feel there was more to his character to explore. So I think more screentime could certainly lead to character becoming more three dimensional.
- I found it hilarious that when Grand Priest wants to to give a penalty to Kaioshin, Beerus and Whis, only Beerus and Kaioshin actually suffer. Grand Priest really can't hide his nepotism. And I found it hilarious the punishment is basically playing horsey with a toddler.
- I just can't get invested in the idea of OG73-i becoming a recurring villain of some sort. His gimmick was worn out and he has zero personality.
- Granola has made a fine enough first impression. His design at least sticks out and is visually appealing.

Overall thoughts... decent epilogue to the previous arc with a seamless segue into the next arc.

[GodVegetto91]

So... This arc has “more” Toriyama involvement than the Moro arc had?

I think it'll be the same, both of them working on it together with Toriyama getting the final say on things.

That’s just your personal assumption. Toyotaro’s statements seem to disagree with your personal assumption and belief.

[batistabus]

Thoroughly enjoyed this chapter. So many great scene panels from Toyotaro. By scenes, I mean images that have a lot of characters with little stories being told, sometimes without words. Toriyama utilizes this technique to great effect, and while Toyotaro doesn't utilize them as frequently, I'm happy to see he's plenty capable.

I was wrong that Moro would be back. But Seven-three is back, so...there!

When the folks on Yardrat are celebrating, are all of the little guys Hatska? Or have other Yardratians shown up to "watch" the battle?

I found the interactions between Oob and the Dai Kaioshin pretty amusing. I saw someone react to this on Twitter, and while I don't remember who said it, I'll echo the sentiments. From Oobs perspective, this weird guys comes out of nowhere, asks you to extend your hand, holds you a little closer than you might like, tells you you've saved the universe, tells you that he's your uncle, flies, and then teleports away. Someone else on Twitter complained that this "ruins" the aspect of Oob as a modest boy who doesn't think he's special, but I don't agree. Oob always knew he was strong, and as for this specific case, I don't think he truly believes he saved the universe. "W-was all of that...a dream?"

Boo is not aware in the moments that the Dai Kaioshin takes over. I don't think this necessarily proves one way or another that the Dai Kaioshin's memories are completely "forgotten". I think they have the leeway to bring him back if the moment calls for it.

LOVE the scenes at Satan's. I could analyze every single panel, but I suppose I'll save that for The Super Re-Read thread.

"Medals are the mark of the true elite", says Jaco, who will be receiving his first medal, and constantly refers to himself as a Super Elite. It's a similar beat to a joke early in the arc about how many districts Merus patrols vs Jaco. Goku grabs the Galactic King's dick AGAIN, and for me, it just keeps getting funnier. These familiar jokes help tie the end of the arc back with the beginning, so while they're recycled in a sense, it works.

Happy ending for Merus. He deserves it. He was definitely a highlight of this arc for me, and while I understand how people feels this undermines his sacrifice...this is Dragon Ball. I never expected him to have a role going forward in Dragon Ball, but we'll see...

Several great scenes at the Galactic Patrol HQ. There's something so dryly funny about the GP ceremonies. The band was completely unnecessary, which it's presence is so great.

Glad Shin was able to sneak in at the very end of the arc in a selfless and useful way. Page 18 is so fucking amazing. I made a post recently about how weird the body guards are, so seeing them shirtless in a hot tub on some remote planet drinking sake...perfection. They deserve it, and god dammit, I want to take a vacation to that planet!! Some may disagree, but I see Beerus and Shin playing horsey for the Zenos as a fantastic and extremely fitting punishment.

Did Whis foresee this outcome? "I certainly did not expect Merus to violate our angel laws" my ass. I'm guessing this is probably the last we'll hear about this, but I'm watching you, Whis...

Jaco is presumably trying to buy cheese on Intergalactic Ebay. Hilarious. We get another glimpse of Saganbo's crew. Yunba is my favorite - in terms of his expressions - so I was happy to see him get the most lines...not that it matters all that much. Jaco says "You're never busting out ever again", so I think it's entirely likely they'll bust out again.

Not sure what was going on with the blobs and Seven-three. Is that just parts of him rejoining his body? I like the hats of the inconsistently-eyed aliens, as well as all of the new ship designs. The boss of the hat people is called Goichi. GO1 (pronounced goichi) is the top Dragon Ball FighterZ player in Japan (and the world), so I wonder if this is a reference to him. I doubt it, but I just thought I'd mention the connection. If it is, hopefully GO1 is more flattered than insulted....

The character design for Granola reveals that he is a Toyotaro-designed character, which I and others presumed. I find it amusing that some people online were certain this was a Toriyama design, which I see as a compliment, but also somewhat annoying. The trend among some fans seems to be: If I like something, it was Toriyama. If I don't, it was Toyotaro. That's not fair, and Toyotaro's comments about this arc only further to muddy those waters...

Is Oatmil the eyepiece? Initially, I had presumed that Oatmil was simply communicating to Granola through a headset on his right ear, but perhaps Oatmil is some sort of artificial intelligence that lives in the headset, like Tony Stark's Jarvis.

Seven-three as a springboard into the next arc...okay! I'm not sure where this will go, but very excited to find out!

Spoiler:

Merus' revival and his subsequent reincarnation in a mortal body is a development that I like. It does not let the character get away with breaking the cosmic rules of the universe he lives in, but it also not an unnecessarily mean and depressing ending for him; it also allows for his reappearance in future arcs as an ally of the dragon team if Toyotarou and Toriyama were to be interested in revisiting the character again. I also particularly liked that Shin offered to give up his life for the sake of Merus, but I wish the Kaioshin had played a bigger role in the arc, especially considering the role his senior had - an interaction between the two would have been nice.

Beerus' punishment is apt, and it once more is an adequate punishment that humiliates the character without bordering on the realm of mean spiritedness. Some fans likely wished for something grander to come out of the Grand Priest's decision, such as Beerus' erasure or demotion, but I am content with this development; anything harsher could risk upsetting Dragon Ball's ethos as a light-hearted and consequence-free world. On the other hand, I dislike the way Beerus has been continuously portrayed in the manga. He seems stuck in a constant grumpy, stressed and selfish mood, which is highly inconsistent with his Battle of Gods portrayal if anything else, where the character was seen as much more carefree and sympathetic. I'm much more of a fan of how the character has gradually mellowed out in the anime, even if his growth is much more overt and melodramatic than it should be at points. While you can feel the character has grown to have some affinity for Goku & co in the manga as well, he still feels far too hostile and grouchy; no hint of good will in his words, and barely any in his actions.

I agree with the sentiments about Merus and the "cosmic rules" of Dragon Ball.

As for the statements about Beerus, I agree with the analysis, but I don't dislike grumpy manga Beerus, and I don't have any particular affinity for the anime's take. I will say that Beerus acknowledging Goku's mastery of MnG feels more in line with the Beerus we've seen in the films. I think Toyotaro portrays Beerus a bit wilder than when Toriyama does, although nothing stands out to me as being especially out-of-character.

How in the world are people getting "Tuffle Vibes" when we've never been introduced to any properly?

This.

[marumuju]

The last chapter certainly took a comedic angle with Galactic King’s junk and the horsey race The humor is so bad that it’s actually good.

The new arc with space adventures seems interesting. Ki fights on breakable vessels in a vacuum of space could make the fights more tactical, we’ll see. Although I think the gods already move in the vacuum quite fluently; how about the rest of the cast?

[DiscountDabi]

Can someone who is more technically inclined when it comes to editing do a color version of Granola’s full body shot from the Hallway.

[Hellspawn28]

It would be cool if Granola is someone uses high techology for power. He may be weak on his own, but has many high tech gadgets to make him stronger. That's something that I always wanted for a DB villain.

[Xeogran]

Did Whis foresee this outcome? "I certainly did not expect Merus to violate our angel laws" my ass. I'm guessing this is probably the last we'll hear about this, but I'm watching you, Whis...

Whis is such a 4D Chess Character I wouldn't be surprised that half of DBS was his planning. He takes amusement in Beerus being punished, so maybe he has some shady intentions.

[SupremeKai25]

Did Whis foresee this outcome? "I certainly did not expect Merus to violate our angel laws" my ass. I'm guessing this is probably the last we'll hear about this, but I'm watching you, Whis...

Whis is such a 4D Chess Character I wouldn't be surprised that half of DBS was his planning. He takes amusement in Beerus being punished, so maybe he has some shady intentions.

Anyone who wants to make Beerus suffer is a good guy.

Do not forget the billions of innocent lives that were killed by Majin Buu and Moro because Beerus could not do his damn job.

[OLKv3]

Satisfied that I called the Merus twist to the letter. Slice of life stuff was fun. Interested in what Toriyama wrote out for this new guy. I wonder if Toyo will get more influence again