Unpopular DB opinions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:14 am

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:36 am
FoolsGil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:15 am The internet tends to go overboard on things, and I think it's gone overboard on hating Yamcha. Sure Toriyama did Yamcha no favors, TFS helped bring Yamcha's ineptitude to the forefront, but the fan vitriol is so intense it's just not funny anymore.
Honestly, if I remember correctly, TFS did not actually portray Yamcha's death to be funny, and the only time I can remember it being used as a joke was when Vegeta returned to Earth. Yamcha was mainly made fun of for his weakness and his failed relationship with Bulma, but I never saw TFS's portrayal of his death as a joke (the only joke there was Bulma saving herself for him).


It was portrayed by TFS to be funny though. He shows up all heroic and gives a rousing speech to lift the team’s spirits and then is cut off mid-sentence by an exploding saibaman and instantly dies.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by precita » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:44 am

Always find it odd because if you watch the original Saiyan saga how seriousness Yamcha's death is taken. Bulma bursts into tears and cries in Roshi's shoulders, and both Krillin and Tien get insanely angry and go beserk on the Saibaman. Also it was Yamcha's death that made reality hit for the main characters in the deadly serious situation they were in and how strong the Saiyans really were.

Originally Piccolo and the other humans thought the Saiyans would be tough but nothing they couldn't handle. None of them expected to die there, and Yamcha's death was the wake up call that they were all in serious trouble. It's weird something became a meme that had such a serious impact on the series at that time.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:47 am

coola wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:02 am
FoolsGil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:46 am
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:36 am

Honestly, if I remember correctly, TFS did not actually portray Yamcha's death to be funny, and the only time I can remember it being used as a joke was when Vegeta returned to Earth. Yamcha was mainly made fun of for his weakness and his failed relationship with Bulma, but I never saw TFS's portrayal of his death as a joke (the only joke there was Bulma saving herself for him).
Well there were other stuff too, and I'm not saying TFS were unfair or did Yamcha any worst than Toriyama did. But some people just take those moments and say all kinds of stuff about Yamcha and its like, no, Yamcha isn't any worst than any other character.
Unfortunately, Yamcha was already made into butt-monkey by Toei in original DB (Bulma being paranoid and keep accusing Yamcha of cheating) and then there is that unfortunate Saibaiman suicide, Toei made fun of it in Super, and there is also figure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sBOdlMv7BA
The fact that Toei, the actual fucking executives running this damn franchise, incorporated that joke into their actual products actually makes me feel sick. They won't stop at anything to get their fans' attention (by attention, I mean $$$).
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:55 am

coola wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:02 am
FoolsGil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:46 am
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:36 am

Honestly, if I remember correctly, TFS did not actually portray Yamcha's death to be funny, and the only time I can remember it being used as a joke was when Vegeta returned to Earth. Yamcha was mainly made fun of for his weakness and his failed relationship with Bulma, but I never saw TFS's portrayal of his death as a joke (the only joke there was Bulma saving herself for him).
Well there were other stuff too, and I'm not saying TFS were unfair or did Yamcha any worst than Toriyama did. But some people just take those moments and say all kinds of stuff about Yamcha and its like, no, Yamcha isn't any worst than any other character.
Unfortunately, Yamcha was already made into butt-monkey by Toei in original DB (Bulma being paranoid and keep accusing Yamcha of cheating) and then there is that unfortunate Saibaiman suicide, Toei made fun of it in Super, and there is also figure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sBOdlMv7BA
Yes I already mentioned Toriyama did no favors for Yamcha's image. That's not what the DB unpopular opinion was about. It's the vitriol against Yamcha. it's gone from laughing with Yamcha, past laughing at Yamcha, to just throwing rocks at Yamcha.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:09 am

FoolsGil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:15 am The internet tends to go overboard on things...the fan vitriol is so intense it's just not funny anymore.
You know what, I think this applies to the "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" joke as well. It may have been funny the first couple of times, but man, it just became a beaten Frankenstein's horse. The joke falls flat when you remember how much of an actual dick Piccolo was to Gohan in the former half of their training, yet people keep harping it because "Goku bad dad". Worst meme of this fandom, jeez.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:14 am

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:09 am
FoolsGil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:15 am The internet tends to go overboard on things...the fan vitriol is so intense it's just not funny anymore.
You know what, I think this applies to the "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" joke as well. It may have been funny the first couple of times, but man, it just became a beaten Frankenstein's horse. The joke falls flat when you remember how much of an actual dick Piccolo was to Gohan in the former half of their training, yet people keep harping it because "Goku bad dad". Worst meme of this fandom, jeez.
To be completely honest, it's probably the unhealthiest relationship of the series. Stockholm syndrome to the max, though it sort of worked out in the end, it went both ways, changing Piccolo too.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Alruneia » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:26 am

Psajdak wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:02 am Dubs don't need to be accurate - they only need to be hilarious, and meme-worthy.

For accuracy, watch subs.
I mean, I half-agree, kinda. I don't agree with the "it should be funny" part. I actually wrote about this whole translation accuracy topic (elsewhere) before, so I'll just summarise how I see it:
Translators have two goals. One is to be accurate, and the other is to match the target audience. This goes for both professional translators and hobbyist translators. Professional translators tend to have more casual target audiences than hobbyist translators. Particularly when translating to English from something as foreign as Japanese, a 100 % faithful translation is practically impossible, as you're not only translating language, but also culture. Should you "convert" the culture to match western culture, or should you take the risk of alienating the western readers/viewers who certainly won't understand all the differences that lie between the lines? Professionals will usually lean towards the former, and hobbyists will lean towards the latter, because that's what fits their target audiences better. The professionals can't afford to force their audience to study up, because they won't do that, but hobbyists can, because their audience actually will. Therefore, professional translations will tend to be easier for the average person to get into, and they fit the common fan, while fan-translations will tend to be more accurate to the original, untranslated release, and they fit the more hardcore fan.
(The summary is long because the original text was really long. Like, essay long. I've omitted some talking points.)
Also, I know that there are official subs along with the official dubs, while I mainly just address official versus fanmade. The target audience contrast applies to official subs versus official dubs too, though, as the target audience for the dubs is probably a fair bit more casual than the target audience for the subs.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:17 pm

Alruneia wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:26 am I mean, I half-agree, kinda. I don't agree with the "it should be funny" part. I actually wrote about this whole translation accuracy topic (elsewhere) before, so I'll just summarise how I see it:
Translators have two goals. One is to be accurate, and the other is to match the target audience. This goes for both professional translators and hobbyist translators. Professional translators tend to have more casual target audiences than hobbyist translators. Particularly when translating to English from something as foreign as Japanese, a 100 % faithful translation is practically impossible, as you're not only translating language, but also culture. Should you "convert" the culture to match western culture, or should you take the risk of alienating the western readers/viewers who certainly won't understand all the differences that lie between the lines? Professionals will usually lean towards the former, and hobbyists will lean towards the latter, because that's what fits their target audiences better. The professionals can't afford to force their audience to study up, because they won't do that, but hobbyists can, because their audience actually will. Therefore, professional translations will tend to be easier for the average person to get into, and they fit the common fan, while fan-translations will tend to be more accurate to the original, untranslated release, and they fit the more hardcore fan.
(The summary is long because the original text was really long. Like, essay long. I've omitted some talking points.)
Also, I know that there are official subs along with the official dubs, while I mainly just address official versus fanmade. The target audience contrast applies to official subs versus official dubs too, though, as the target audience for the dubs is probably a fair bit more casual than the target audience for the subs.
Hit many nails on their heads. A good dub should at the very least be able to invoke the similar emotion and portray events as accurately as possible, even with changing dialogue.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:02 pm

Also if you’re going the gag dub route it should be funny like Ghost Stories dub. Most of Funi Z just isn’t funny.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:59 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:02 pm Also if you’re going the gag dub route it should be funny like Ghost Stories dub. Most of Funi Z just isn’t funny.
Now Ocean Z, on the other hand...
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:03 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:59 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:02 pm Also if you’re going the gag dub route it should be funny like Ghost Stories dub. Most of Funi Z just isn’t funny.
Now Ocean Z, on the other hand...
I honestly don’t remember Ocean Z being that funny either just less embarrassing to watch.

Some unintentional moments like Vegeta making a pass at Gohan sure.


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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by goku the krump dancer » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:34 pm

Even though the overall soundtrack is about five songs long which are just different arrangements of the same tune, I DO enjoy some of Mark Menza's GT score.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:40 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:09 am The joke falls flat when you remember how much of an actual dick Piccolo was to Gohan in the former half of their training, yet people keep harping it because "Goku bad dad".
When was Piccolo ever a dick to Gohan? He was tough, but those were the circumstances. Plus Gohan was a spoiled brat in the beginning.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:43 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:40 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:09 am The joke falls flat when you remember how much of an actual dick Piccolo was to Gohan in the former half of their training, yet people keep harping it because "Goku bad dad".
When was Piccolo ever a dick to Gohan? He was tough, but those were the circumstances. Plus Gohan was a spoiled brat in the beginning.
Gohan was a 4 year old who was expected to study harder that most high school students. What exactly made him a spoiled brat other than Piccolo said so?

Also the whole kidnapping a 4 year old to train him as a child soldier, threatening to snap his neck if he didn’t stop crying, and leaving him out to the wilderness to himself (again he’s 4) is typically seen as dickish behavior

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:44 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:40 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:09 am The joke falls flat when you remember how much of an actual dick Piccolo was to Gohan in the former half of their training, yet people keep harping it because "Goku bad dad".
When was Piccolo ever a dick to Gohan? He was tough, but those were the circumstances. Plus Gohan was a spoiled brat in the beginning.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:59 pm

Chichi pampered Gohan. Even when Piccolo gave him the apples he was still complaining and whining about all the other food and things he was missing from home.

I don't think I would call it a "kidnapping" necessarily. The others didn't put up much of a fight, and seemed to understand why Piccolo took Gohan. It was begrudging.

Piccolo was the Devil reborn. Threatening to snap a neck isn't unexpected. The wilderness was all a part of the training. Again, these were tough circumstances. That's not being a dick. If anything it's the opposite.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Psajdak » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:14 pm

Vegeta will use Ultra Instict one day.
I don't know how, and I don't know when, but it will happen, no matter what he said before.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:45 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:59 pm Chichi pampered Gohan. Even when Piccolo gave him the apples he was still complaining and whining about all the other food and things he was missing from home.
Have you ever been around an actual toddler? Those motherfuckers are annoyingly picky eaters as anyone whose actually been around them can tell you. It’s a miracle Gohan even has an appreciation for his mother’s home cooking instead of just wanting fries or ramen all the time. It’s not like he refused to eat the apples. How dare his under developed taste buds not like the sour taste?

I don't think I would call it a "kidnapping" necessarily. The others didn't put up much of a fight, and seemed to understand why Piccolo took Gohan. It was begrudging.
It is kidnapping because Chi Chi, the person who actually has legal authority over Gohan, didn’t consent to and sure as hell wouldn’t. Even if Bulma and company agreed to it (which they hadn’t) it’s not within their right to do so.
Piccolo was the Devil reborn. Threatening to snap a neck isn't unexpected. The wilderness was all a part of the training. Again, these were tough circumstances. That's not being a dick. If anything it's the opposite.
You are right that Piccolo is the devil reborn. That’s why
his actions are justifiable (as opposed to say if Tenshinhan had done the exact same thing) but he is indeed being a dick, who even had intentions to make Gohan a Mazoku.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:18 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:59 pm Chichi pampered Gohan. Even when Piccolo gave him the apples he was still complaining and whining about all the other food and things he was missing from home.

I don't think I would call it a "kidnapping" necessarily. The others didn't put up much of a fight, and seemed to understand why Piccolo took Gohan. It was begrudging.

Piccolo was the Devil reborn. Threatening to snap a neck isn't unexpected. The wilderness was all a part of the training. Again, these were tough circumstances. That's not being a dick. If anything it's the opposite.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:59 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:59 pm Piccolo was the Devil reborn. Threatening to snap a neck isn't unexpected...That's not being a dick. If anything it's the opposite.
I know this thread is called "unpopular opinions", but it is best you back your arguments with consistent logic.
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