Kanzenshuu's favorite arcs. UPDATE: The results

[90sDBZ]

S: Frieza, Saiyan, King Piccolo
A: Buu, Android/Cell, 22nd Tournament, 23rd Tournament
B: 21st Tournament, Baby, Tournament of Power, Goku Black, Red Ribbon, Shadow Dragon
C: Otherworld Tournament, Pilaf, Resurrection F, Garlic Jr, Saiyaman, Super 17
D: BoG, Black Star
F: Fake Namek

Some of my tiers are really overcrowded compared to others but that's just how I see it.

Frieza was the pinnacle of the series for me, with the most iconic moments like Vegeta's death, Kaioken x20, Spirit Bomb, SS1, Namek's drawn out destruction, and one tough bastard of a villain.

The Saiyan Saga had awesome buildup during the year of training, and it was great seeing all the good guys standing shoulder to shoulder to defend the earth. It was also one of the most brutal battles of the series, both for the heroes and villains. Goku's arrival and beatdown of Nappa was satisfying, and his fight with Vegeta is among the best of the series.

King Piccolo was one of the darkest parts of the whole series, and felt even darker compared to everything that came before. As many have said before, it felt like it could have been the beginning of Z. It was the first time main characters were killed off, the first villain who posed a threat to the entire planet, first time a villain made a wish, and one of Goku's best ever arrivals on the battlefield.

[emperior]

Saiyan arc continues to dunk on the anime industry

It has really stood the test of time.

It still amazes me how great it is every time I either re-read or re-watch it. It’s such an incredible arc.

[PurestEvil]

Saiyan arc continues to dunk on the anime industry

It has really stood the test of time.

It still amazes me how great it is every time I either re-read or re-watch it. It’s such an incredible arc.

I mean, you really cannot hate it. Almost every moment in this arc was fantastically executed, both the story and the action.

[Goten_jr]

Baby & Zamasu in D is just wow

[MasenkoHA]

Baby & Zamasu in D is just wow

Zamasu himself is a great villain but the arc had some of the worst tonal whiplash I’ve ever seen. Also it just kept going and going and going. Like yay Trunk just sliced him in half with a Genki Dama Sword lol jk his essence will take over the entire cosmos and Zeno will have to wipe out this timeline.

[90sDBZ]

My only nitpick with Zamasu is him being presented as a supposedly sympathetic villain. That seems to be what they were going for, but I can't bring myself to feel bad for him. It's clear from the moment we meet him that he's already a dark guy who sees himself as better than mortals. He turned to murder and genocide waaay too soon for me to feel any empathy for him.

Aside from that he was a good villain who brought some much needed tension to Super.

[MasenkoHA]

My only nitpick with Zamasu is him being presented as a supposedly sympathetic villain. That seems to be what they were going for, but I can't bring myself to feel bad for him. It's clear from the moment we meet him that he's already a dark guy who sees himself as better than mortals. He turned to murder and genocide waaay too soon for me to feel any empathy for him.

Aside from that he was a good villain who brought some much needed tension to Super.

I don’t think we were ever suppose to sympathize with him. It just seemed like they wanted to do a different kind of villain. Piccolo Daimao and Majin Boo were evil by their very nature of being demons. The Artificial Humans were designed for the purpose of destruction and Vegeta and Freeza were evil because of their upbringings (Prince to a brutal warrior race and heir to an intergalactic space mafia) Zamasu just believed what he was doing was right because of his own god superiority complex and narcissism. We were obviously intended to dislike him from the moment he thought Goku was inferior to him for being mortal.

[90sDBZ]

I don’t think we were ever suppose to sympathize with him. It just seemed like they wanted to do a different kind of villain. Piccolo Daimao and Majin Boo were evil by their very nature of being demons. The Artificial Humans were designed for the purpose of destruction and Vegeta and Freeza were evil because of their upbringings (Prince to a brutal warrior race and heir to an intergalactic space mafia) Zamasu just believed what he was doing was right because of his own god superiority complex and narcissism. We were obviously intended to dislike him from the moment he thought Goku was inferior to him for being mortal.

Perhaps it's more fan interpretation than Super itself that tries to paint him as sympathetic. I've seen a number of fans describe him in such a way, claiming he had good intentions before becoming "corrupted" by the things he saw.

Personally I think he was a bad egg to begin with, and just wanted an excuse for genocide. Basically he was always that way, but hid it well.

[MasenkoHA]

Personally I think he was a bad egg to begin with, and just wanted an excuse for genocide. Basically he was always that way, but hid it well.

Yeah his talk of justice always came from a place of narcissism. That he was morally superior to mortals purely because he was a god. That’s why I don’t buy we we were ever suppose to agree with him or see how he got that way.

[SupremeKai25]

My only nitpick with Zamasu is him being presented as a supposedly sympathetic villain. That seems to be what they were going for, but I can't bring myself to feel bad for him. It's clear from the moment we meet him that he's already a dark guy who sees himself as better than mortals. He turned to murder and genocide waaay too soon for me to feel any empathy for him.

Aside from that he was a good villain who brought some much needed tension to Super.

You're supposed to feel empathy for him because he was a young person full of potential and promise, but a bad series of unfortunate circumstances (and stupid people) led him astray.

As well Toyotaro showed in a bonus panel that Zamasu was indeed a good person with a pure heart, because when he was recruited by Gowasu he vowed that he would do his best to create multiversal peace:



But even throughout the arc it's obvious that the writers want you to feel empathy for Zamasu. For example:

- Gowasu says many times that Zamasu is a pure-hearted and noble individual, but is deeply afflicted. He is a God who wants beauty and peace, but can't comprehend why the fundamental existence of Gods and mortals is so paradoxical and contradictory -> You're supposed to think that he's a tragic character, because while he does have good intentions and heroic qualities, he is shattered internally by this dilemma. Like tragic heroes typically are.

- Zamasu cries and claims that he is doing everything "for the good of the cosmos" -> You're supposed to feel sorry for him, because he might be delusional, but he genuinely thinks he's doing creation a favour.

- Gowasu at the end says that he failed Zamasu -> You're supposed to feel sorry for both of them. For Gowasu because he's been left mentally scarred by this experience, for Zamasu because he had a mentor who couldn't set him on the right path. They both share the blame.

Even the ost is very sad/melancholic in these moments, Toei kind of gives it away.

You can argue that the writers somewhat failed in some moments, that's up to you to decide, but objectively he is meant to be a sympathetic character. Which can't be said for any other Dragon Ball villain, except, maybe, Vegeta. But then again Toriyama never pretended that Vegeta had good intentions, nor that he presented a moral dilemma.

And that's why I rate the Future Trunks arc so high.

[MasenkoHA]

If he was intended to be sympathetic than the anime failed so hard.

[sunsetshimmer]

If he was intended to be sympathetic than the anime failed so hard.

He was obviously meant to be disliked so i guess he was executed right if we look at him from such perspective? You can tell he was written to be annoying with his contant "ningen" talk and narcissistic monologues.
You can't feel empathy for someone who is evil only because of pure selfish desires. If you do, then obviously there is something wrong with your morality. You could feel empathy for Vegeta, who had tragic past and was a slave. His death scene on Namek was one of the most memorable scenes in franchise and most people were touched by it, even forgiving Vegeta for being such an asshole. When Zamasu died, no one cared. Not fans, and not a single character in show. He has never shown any remorse and unlike Vegeta had wonderful life before becoming evil. Everything that happened to him, including his death, was only his own fault. It's like feeling empathy for Buu basically. From a story perspective, it was just yet another villain getting what he deserved so we can move to next threat, so basically almost every other villain in franchise.

[SupremeKai25]

If he was intended to be sympathetic than the anime failed so hard.

Not really, as I provided many elements in the anime that show Zamasu in a sympathetic light and highlight the writers' intentions. It is Toriyama's story that Zamasu is a sympathetic character, and both Toei and Toyotaro proceeded accordingly.

It is therefore not a surprise that, as was in line with Toriyama's story and vision, Zamasu is seen by the community as a sympathetic and three-dimensional character.

[MasenkoHA]

If he was intended to be sympathetic than the anime failed so hard.

Not really, as I provided many elements in the anime that show Zamasu in a sympathetic light and highlight the writers' intentions. It is Toriyama's story that Zamasu is a sympathetic character, and both Toei and Toyotaro proceeded accordingly.

It is therefore not a surprise that, as was in line with Toriyama's story and vision, Zamasu is seen by the community as a sympathetic and three-dimensional character.

One of your examples is the scene where he’s crying....which is treated as comedic with Vegito being in disbelief that he’s crying and calling him out. Because again the Zamasu arc had MAJOR tonal whiplash issues


We’re told he’s pure of heart and wants beauty and peace but that’s manifested as him being a narcissistic genocidal sociopath.

[90sDBZ]

You're supposed to feel empathy for him because he was a young person full of potential and promise, but a bad series of unfortunate circumstances (and stupid people) led him astray.

As well Toyotaro showed in a bonus panel that Zamasu was indeed a good person with a pure heart, because when he was recruited by Gowasu he vowed that he would do his best to create multiversal peace:

But even throughout the arc it's obvious that the writers want you to feel empathy for Zamasu. For example:

- Gowasu says many times that Zamasu is a pure-hearted and noble individual, but is deeply afflicted. He is a God who wants beauty and peace, but can't comprehend why the fundamental existence of Gods and mortals is so paradoxical and contradictory -> You're supposed to think that he's a tragic character, because while he does have good intentions and heroic qualities, he is shattered internally by this dilemma. Like tragic heroes typically are.

- Zamasu cries and claims that he is doing everything "for the good of the cosmos" -> You're supposed to feel sorry for him, because he might be delusional, but he genuinely thinks he's doing creation a favour.

- Gowasu at the end says that he failed Zamasu -> You're supposed to feel sorry for both of them. For Gowasu because he's been left mentally scarred by this experience, for Zamasu because he had a mentor who couldn't set him on the right path. They both share the blame.

Even the ost is very sad/melancholic in these moments, Toei kind of gives it away.

You can argue that the writers somewhat failed in some moments, that's up to you to decide, but objectively he is meant to be a sympathetic character. Which can't be said for any other Dragon Ball villain, except, maybe, Vegeta. But then again Toriyama never pretended that Vegeta had good intentions, nor that he presented a moral dilemma.

And that's why I rate the Future Trunks arc so high.

I haven't read the DBS Manga, although that panel is interesting. Perhaps the intention was there do give him more sympathetic backstory. As it stands, it feels like we're missing some vital development if we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

What we're given in the anime isn't enough to convince me. Gowasu saying these positive things about Zamasu is a poor substitute for us actually seeing it for ourselves. Zamasu is repeatedly shown to take sadistic pleasure in his actions, which contradicts the idea that he has good intentions. Him saying his actions are "for the greater good" is just a rationalisation for his obvious bloodlust.

Zamasu had an easy life of peace, luxury, and high status. He had every advantage in the world and still turned out bad.

I'd argue that even OG Broly was a more sympathetic character. He was stabbed and left for dead as a baby, and then betrayed by his own father. While he ended up as an unapologetic monster, you can at least say he never had a chance. DBS Broly develops him further and actually has him turn out decent despite everything.

And there's also 17 and 18, who were kidnapped and turned into cyborgs against their will before being shutdown for a prolonged period.

And Piccolo was somewhat sympathetic, at least going by early filler where we see him treated as a monster from a young age.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu had an easy life of peace, luxury, and high status. He had every advantage in the world and still turned out bad.

Does this really matter? I mean, I'm sure there are several villains in fiction that you can sympathize with, despite them being aristocrats or nobles or anyway people who had a privileged upbringing, at least compared to most people in their universes.

Regardless you can formulate your own opinion on Zamasu, but he was indeed meant to be a sympathetic character, which is why Toriyama actually had trouble writing him in a concrete way. Since, as he admitted, he never wrote a villain like Zamasu before. Someone who started out as a good person, but succumbed to dark desires.