Why is Pan "Weak"?

Nikkolas · Post by **Nikkolas** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:21 pm

I never understood it. I read topics here and elsehwere on "why isn't Pan Super Saiyan" and many of the answers seem to imply her just being too weak for the state.

I don't get it unless it's just a side-effect of the hate a lot of people have for the character.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:32 pm

Well, Pan as we saw her at the end of Z kicked all kinds of ass. She was destined for greatness, right there.

For some reason, in GT she no longer seemed to have inherited such great strength like her uncle did. For all intents and purposes, she probably should have been a Super Saiyan just the same as Goten and Trunks were at that age.

Then again, everyone but Goku (and to a slight extent, Vegeta) was portrayed as pathetically weak in GT.

So overall, it's not a dislike of Pan herself as much as a dislike of what GT turned her into. It's not like, "well, she was never really strong or promising enough to become an SSj." It's more like, "She definitely could have, but GT ruined it."

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:32 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I never understood it. I read topics here and elsehwere on "why isn't Pan Super Saiyan" and many of the answers seem to imply her just being too weak for the state.

I don't get it unless it's just a side-effect of the hate a lot of people have for the character.

Needless hate, that is. As for me, Pan is my number three favorite, behind her parents.

Anyways, I don't exactly think it's because she's weak. It's more or less because she's only a quarter-Saiyan. Bra could possibly go Super Saiyan, as she has the same amount of Saiyan blood in her as Trunks has, but due to her lifestyle, it'd never happen.

But yeah. It's not because Pan is weak. Just her genes.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:33 pm

The whole deal with Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr easily being Super Saiyans kinda throws the whole "blood was too diluted" thing out the window.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:43 pm

I think I remember reading on this board somewhere that the reason Pan didn't go SSj was because Toriyama, or whoever designed her, didn't want to draw a girl with all the muscle mass that comes with the transformation.

Nikkolas · Post by **Nikkolas** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:47 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, Pan as we saw her at the end of Z kicked all kinds of ass. She was destined for greatness, right there.

For some reason, in GT she no longer seemed to have inherited such great strength like her uncle did. For all intents and purposes, she probably should have been a Super Saiyan just the same as Goten and Trunks were at that age.

Then again, everyone but Goku (and to a slight extent, Vegeta) was portrayed as pathetically weak in GT.

So overall, it's not a dislike of Pan herself as much as a dislike of what GT turned her into. It's not like, "well, she was never really strong or promising enough to become an SSj." It's more like, "She definitely could have, but GT ruined it."

Well I view it as proportion.
King Piccolo was the uberz powerful in DB but come Z, he's barely a bug in comparison.

GT supposedly starts with villains who are stronger than Buu such as Rildo and only goes up from there... I can't see Goten or Trunks fighting people on that level and faring much better than Pan.

Also you have to remember in Z she didn't do much except stuff you'd see in the original DragonBall...some super strengtha nd casually beating up much bigger ugly people.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:51 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:I think I remember reading on this board somewhere that the reason Pan didn't go SSj was because Toriyama, or whoever designed her, didn't want to draw a girl with all the muscle mass that comes with the transformation.

Eh, I understand Toriyama probably made up that excuse on the spot, but it's still kinda silly. The only time where normal SSj seemed to grant any significant increase in physical muscle mass was when Goku first transformed against Freeza. After that, nobody seemed to bulk up to any significant or noticeable degree.

It's easy to draw an SSj Pan. Just fiddle with the hair in obvious ways, and make her look a little leaner, though not necessarily bulkier. I've done truckloads of SSj Pan sketches while planning parts of my FanFic.

Sedorna · Post by **Sedorna** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:02 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Anyways, I don't exactly think it's because she's weak. It's more or less because she's only a quarter-Saiyan. Bra could possibly go Super Saiyan, as she has the same amount of Saiyan blood in her as Trunks has, but due to her lifestyle, it'd never happen.

I've always kind of thought that a funny episode would consist of Bra going Super Saiyan because of something silly, like she accidentally bought the wrong color nail polish, and people at her school seeing it and trying to mimic it because it looks so cool. I can just imagine Bra seeing all these people with dyed blonde and spiked hair, and her saying, "Psh! Whatever!" before going to do her regular thing.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:23 pm

Rage. Pan is more like Vegeta in attitude than Goku or Gohan - she's always bitchy. Therefore, she just never hit the extraordinary anger needed to break into Super Saiyan.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:38 pm

Rocketman wrote:Rage. Pan is more like Vegeta in attitude than Goku or Gohan - she's always bitchy. Therefore, she just never hit the extraordinary anger needed to break into Super Saiyan.

She always seemed more "annoyed" to me than bitchy or angry. Even then, it was only for the 10% of the time when she wasn't all "AAAAAAH save me Grandpa."

The way I remember it, GT just made her into a nonensical, slightly bratty wuss more than anything else.

JohnnyBoy_Z · Post by **JohnnyBoy_Z** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:26 am

Pan should've been the first female Super Saiya-Jin.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:47 am

For anybody who wants to see interpretations of how Ssj Pan or Bra might look:

Toyble

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/N ... 0bfa81.jpg

I forgot the artist's alias or actual name..but..here ya go.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/N ... an_SSJ.jpg

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:02 am

Snail wrote:I forgot the artist's alias or actual name..but..here ya go.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/N ... an_SSJ.jpg

That's by a guy named Pandora's Box.

Don't look him up. >_>

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:06 am

Indeed. Follow Kaboom's advice folks.

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:38 am

Well I view it as proportion.
King Piccolo was the uberz powerful in DB but come Z, he's barely a bug in comparison.

GT supposedly starts with villains who are stronger than Buu such as Rildo and only goes up from there... I can't see Goten or Trunks fighting people on that level and faring much better than Pan.

Also you have to remember in Z she didn't do much except stuff you'd see in the original DragonBall...some super strengtha nd casually beating up much bigger ugly people.

[/quote]

Wow, that was quite tricky to read!

King Piccolo was not in Z, he was beaten by Goku and thus regurgitated an egg containing the present Piccolo to carry on his evil deeds.

Piccolo was strong in Z, especially after he merged with Kami creating an almost super Namek.

I think GT just screwed up Pann's character; resulting in her being very annoying and generally quite weak.
It would have been nice to see her transform into a Super Saiyan, the same as it would be nice to see a little more of Bra and perhaps show some of her hidden fighting skills.

I do not think that genetics - no wrong word, Saiyan blood; have much to do with things, as at the end of GT you see GokuJr and VegetaJr transforming yet seemingly unaware that they are Saiyan.

Gohan was a demi-Saiyan and Videl human, making Pann only a third Saiyan; Now unless Pann and Trunks, or Goten and Bra hit it off, that would make the future generation seen at the end of GT having very little Saiyan blood; but being able to transform Super.
Either that or Vegeta and Goku were somehow reincarnated...

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:43 am

Actually, Pan is a quarter-Saiyan.

Also, follow the advice re: Pandora's Box. Incredible talent incredibly wasted.

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:34 am

Sorry my bad maths

I'm all embarrassed now

That's what you get for skipping maths at school to watch DBZ

Nikkolas · Post by **Nikkolas** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:12 am

King Piccolo was not in Z, he was beaten by Goku and thus regurgitated an egg containing the present Piccolo to carry on his evil deeds.

I know this. That's why I said King Piccolo was regarded as a mega powerful baddie in DB but when DBZ comes out, he's an insect.

Kinda like how Frieza would be in the Buu Saga.

And I liked Pan in GT. >>

finnishjuoppo · Post by **finnishjuoppo** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:18 am

saiyanprincess wrote:Sorry my bad maths

That's what you get for skipping maths at school to watch DBZ

I lol'd. My opinion is that Pan just wanted some co... I mean she wanted a boyfriend, or am I wrong? in the first GT ep she is hitting some wierd kid

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:38 am

finnishjuoppo wrote:
saiyanprincess wrote:Sorry my bad maths

That's what you get for skipping maths at school to watch DBZ
I lol'd. My opinion is that Pan just wanted some co... I mean she wanted a boyfriend, or am I wrong? in the first GT ep she is hitting some wierd kid

Yes she did, If I recall it was her first date

Hehe, Well Cartoon Network was mean for showing it in the afternoon

The bad thing might have been, that I was already recording it...

Kanzenshuu

Why is Pan "Weak"?

Why is Pan "Weak"?

Re: Why is Pan "Weak"?

Re: Why is Pan "Weak"?