Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:38 pmHe is simply more secretive and acts from the shadows probably due to security reasons. Besides Elec said it: Information means power, so with no one being aware of the true boss, the threat of the Heaters getting discovered/destroyed is significantly lower.
Exactly. I don't know how the fan base would react to Bojack ending up as the main villain, but it would be an interesting choice. I'm not hoping for this to be the case, but I'm not totally against it either.
I wouldn’t like it but I also expect there to always be things I dislike as long as it’s mixed with things I do like I would accept it
- Wonderful flashback. It was brief, gave a good insight for Granolah's motives and was also wonderfully panelled.
- I enjoyed the random gag of the oracle fish needed an injection to deal with insomnia.
- Goku was hoping that a strong fighter was going to crash the party? Hmm. And of course, Vegeta and Beerus reprimand him for that mentality. You know, I don't even know why Toyotaro bothers having the cast call out Goku for his battle hungry attitude. That kind of lampshade hanging has been done so many times and Goku never changes this kind of demeanour, so I don't even know why the story bothers bring this up as an issue. Because if it was a issue, it would have had a change of the dynamic Goku has with some of the cast, but everyone just goes along with Goku's blase attitude regardless.
- Goku and Whis fighting well panelled and choreographed.
- I'm torn on there being even more tiers of Ultra Instinct. On one hand, it give Goku motivation (as he didn't have enough already) to keep training and keeps up the recurring theme of the student surpassing the mentor. But at the same time, it goes back to Dragon Ball's bad habit of writing itself into a corner. I mean, the ground work has already been laid down for Goku to surpass Whis and the potentially the Grand Priest. For all intent purpose, Zeno could be the endgame for Goku. And if it reaches that stage, where does the story go for there? Goku is already in the realm of Angels, so there's really nothing stopping him for popping up on Zeno's radar. And I question whether that hypothetical situation can be well written given how ridiculously powerful the characters would be.
- I LOVED the character writing of Beerus. Beerus beautifully baits Vegeta with the idea of becoming strong in fashion that isn't similar to Goku and states he isn't interested in training Vegeta, but is welcome to steal nay technique he see from Beerus when Beerus is exercising. The character moment was so fantastically manipulative. Plus, it also serves a great call back to the Future Trunks arc when Goku "stole" Beerus' Hakai technique and used it against Fused Zamasu. The whole scene served Beerus' and Vegeta's character very well.
- The whole encounter with Granolah and Elic was fantastic. Further characterisation was given to Granolah (with how desperate he is at avenging his people), the dynamic between Elec, his cronies and Granolah was well established, there another unique insight into what the goal of the other significant characters were (Elec looking for Zuno for important information), and of course, the foundation was beautifully laid down for Freeza to be an integral part of the plot. REALLY great storytelling around.
- OG73-i was brilliantly integrated into the plot, not just the further the story but to seamlessly link the last arc to the current one.
- The ambush scene felt a bit tacked on, but it achieved what set out to: demonstrate that Granolah is cunning, efficient and devastating in combat when the time calls for it. And it gives a great glimpse into the immense strength that Granolah had gained as mentioned earlier in the chapter by Elec. On top of that, Granolah got a bit more characterisation, with his demonstrating mercy towards Soshiru despite trying to kill him and steal his bounty pay.
Overall thoughts...this chapter was Toyotaro's best work in all of Dragon Ball. Multiple story lines set up, great character writing, and really good art and panelling. This arc really couldn't have kicked off any better. If the rest of the arc has quality stuff like this, it could really go down as an all-time great arc.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
I saw people complain about the new characters names but I think it does well towards making them Easy to remember. I can much better remember Granolah, Elec, Gas, and Oil better than I care to remember Saganbo, Shimorekka, Yunba, or Quiotur.
Just throwing up a random thought I had, but it really seems like one of the main/recurring “thematic” of the arc is “stealing”.
It begins with Goichi’s gang stealing 73, which is then stolen by Granolah who in turn is ambushed by that alien who wanted to steal the reward.
Beerus told Vegeta to “steal” the technique.
While Whis told Goku not to copy his fighting style (which is similar to stealing).
73 too may get stolen once again. And who knows what Freeza will do.
And of course Granolah too got stolen out of a happy life when Freeza sent the Saiyans to kill his race and steal his planet.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Manga
Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman
Yo! Son Goku and friends return
Battle of Gods and Resurrection “F”
Dragon Ball Super Manga + Movies
Lore from Toriyama
Dragon Ball DAIMA
Wow, I am glad I started reading the manga at this point. Definitely hooked into Granola at this point, can't wait to see how he develops as the story advances. I also welcome the heetah's puns.
I also fancy the idea of Beerus being Vegeta's mentor. Seeing Vegeta train under a GoD would make an interesting development to his relationship with Goku.
I am a bit skeptical on the whole UI tier thing. While it is a neat concept, I think it can potentially create its own ceiling if Goku does manage to surpass the Grand fucking Priest of all people. However, I would like to see how Toyotarou handles this concept.
Mewzard wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:49 pm
Ah yes, Freeza's big crime boss rival, Heeters. He even says in Viz's translation that "Freeza's gonna ice the guy for us."
I love the puns of this series, lol.
Puns aside, I am intrigued by how Granolah's quest is going to go. I hope he stays a compelling antagonist.
I love all those puns. Elec Heeter for Electric Heater, Oil Heeter, Gas Heeter. Maki is a bit more obscure but its the name of a Heating and Air Company.
I understand that introducing Ultra Instinct would create this problem. How will you introduce someone that can be a threat to a power that has been labled the cream of the crop.....introduce a new power, and a new power, and a new power. It's good to clarify that Goku is on the bottom of the UI ladder, though we knew that. Why are we just now hearing about this other technique that the Gods of Destruction use? ( clearly they wrote themselves into a corner and need to do an ass-pull save on a move that we haven't even remotely heard of) Unless Beerus is referring to using the "Destruction" mode like Toppo does.
Should be interesting to see how they write in this new ability. I like the interaction between Vegeta and Beerus, but I think they are going too far on the "I'm Vegeta, I wont follow in Kakarot's path bc of reasons". Many people have talked about this and how end of Z, Vegeta came to terms with his pride, and it seems this Vegeta is just the same Saiyan saga dude.
" I swear on that faith I can never back down now" - Goku
Do we have any idea what the plasma that jumped on 73 in the previous chapter was? It seemed important but I can't tell.
inb4 the last remnant of Moro who regenerates through it
Xeogran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:22 pm
Do we have any idea what the plasma that jumped on 73 in the previous chapter was? It seemed important but I can't tell.
inb4 the last remnant of Moro who regenerates through it
It was probably just his “Core” or whatever like Cell. I don’t think its that Important
Broly's gotta be involved in this arc somehow. I was disappointed that he didn't appear in the Moro arc. The ending of the Broly film had me thinking that he was going to be a reoccurring character in Super's story.
This arc really sounds like it's going to be a faction war between Granolah, the Heeters and the Freeza Force. A lot of stuff is being built up in this first chapter and I'm excited to see where the story goes. Anyone thinking Freeza is going to be the main villain of this arc is kidding themselves, his best stuff in Super was when he wasn't the main villain (Team Universe 7). Much like the Broly movie Freeza will be an evil character but at the end of the day, there will be a bigger enemy as the focus.
I bet Freeza's first interaction with Granolah will go something like this:
DiscountDabi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:34 pm
As for the top scans I agree that these break that same thing, albeit to a lesser extent. A better example would have been Moro and Goku clashing auras and Goku screaming to power up. I hate those just as much, but in a certain extent I can excuse those because it’s omen. Its not complete and he’s still working on letting his body move on its own without his input.
At the very least in the manga he doesn’t do that in Mastered UI. He is still able to express himself and be happy or have a stern look, but he’s not a muscle head screaming to draw out power. He’s calm and tranquil as his body flows without him having to make direct input. UI Omen does a similar thing but to a lesser extend to which Moro incorrectly assumed it was just a speed boost form.
Spoiler:
In fact, it completely took him by suprise later when Goku says he’s moving without thinking even though he was doing that before.
Spoiler:
showing emotions of happiness and anger is something he did a lot ... which is not necessarily wrong ... in the anime it was possible because goku dominated the state
I don't think it's different in the manga
pepd wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:22 pm
Except that the former is "Sign" and is explicitly stated that he is failing to use it correctly.
still shows emotions in its UIM form
TKA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:10 pm
Good to see them following up on Vegeta being a good potential GoD. Hopefully it isn't that shitty thing from the anime with the edgelord aura, tattoo and muscles. Ugh. What a way to ruin Toppo's design.
toppo's design was that of a fat man in tights .. they really improved it making it look more imposing
incidentally .. it is the way it appears in games and in the heroes manga so many like it
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:49 pm
Wow, people actually weren't that far off with Granola's origins. He isn't a tsufuru but he has a history with saiyans and even with Freeza, and hates them. This chapter was nice, little about the heroes, a lot about the new guys. We already know more about Granola than Moro. I hope Granola isn't the bad guy, or at least his revenge is against Freeza only, Goku and Vegeta can't be kept being held accountable for what their ancestors did.
Nice to see the Oracle fish getting his Covid vaccine shot. Got vibes of Goku catching Bubbles too.
Vegeta after dropping every master in the ToP, has gotten more masters than ever before lol.
Elec's crew gives me Bojack vibes. But in a good way, not in a re-hashed way. I hope they are not dropped or treated like Moro's henchmen. They do have a way (7-3) to become relevant.
OG-73 never recovered, he is just half the man he's ever been.
Good thing Freeza is coming back, the powercreep is moving way too fast for Freeza to make his comeback in 3 years and be a threat without a need of an asspull.
Granola vs Freeza... that could be a great way to start an arc. Granola killing Freeza would make the front page.
I'm still wondering if it'll be Granola or Gas the one becoming the strongest. Gas might use 7-3, we don't know how Granola would get stronger.
While I'd love Broly here, it might get too crowded... although Granola vs Broly...
Let's just hope this arc doesn't last 2 years.
I respectfully disagree with one of your statements. I actually hope Gronola ends up being the big bad of the arc somehow. Purely due to his personality and background, he'd be the most morally grey villian in the series. At the very least I hope he kills Frieza. I enjoy his quick draw/sniper like fighting style.
I hope the Heeters get some good moments in during this arc, especially if they don't survive past it. This arc confirmed as far as I'm concerned that Goku is not stronger than Beerus at all. Which should be no surprise, he's been the benchmark for Goku and he has plenty of tricks up his sleeve. I can't wait to see what he teaches Vegeta, especially since he implied the other GoDs could use this technique as well. Overall this chapter was very interesting.
I agree would have more depth than Moro to be a great villain
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the episode was pretty good ... I like that granola is not a bounty hunter, that style does not suit him ... he is more a kind of patrolman who works for an independent organization ... is good design but the others is very "DB Heros OC"
Vegeta is going to have his God of Destruction mode it seems obvious to me and I think I like the idea
I respectfully disagree with one of your statements. I actually hope Gronola ends up being the big bad of the arc somehow. Purely due to his personality and background, he'd be the most morally grey villian in the series. At the very least I hope he kills Frieza. I enjoy his quick draw/sniper like fighting style.
I hope the Heeters get some good moments in during this arc, especially if they don't survive past it. This arc confirmed as far as I'm concerned that Goku is not stronger than Beerus at all. Which should be no surprise, he's been the benchmark for Goku and he has plenty of tricks up his sleeve. I can't wait to see what he teaches Vegeta, especially since he implied the other GoDs could use this technique as well. Overall this chapter was very interesting.
Xeogran wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:22 pm
Do we have any idea what the plasma that jumped on 73 in the previous chapter was? It seemed important but I can't tell.
inb4 the last remnant of Moro who regenerates through it
It's a scrap of Seven-Three himself. You can see him rebuilding portions of his face, and by the time Goichi's scouts arrive to retrieve him, he's a fully formed head.
He was apparently blown to smithereens with Moro's death, but spends the months between arcs putting himself (or at least a small part of him) back together. That's also why his SOS signal doesn't start going off immediately.
Anyway, excellent chapter. Both Granolah and the Heatas (a spelling I'll be sticking to for pun fidelity; its ending vowel is shortened just like in Freeza's name) are surprisingly fun. It's nice being a chapter-and-a-half into the arc and not knowing who the main villain will be.
Tai Lung wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:40 am
I agree would have more depth than Moro to be a great villain
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the episode was pretty good ... I like that granola is not a bounty hunter, that style does not suit him ... he is more a kind of patrolman who works for an independent organization ... is good design but the others is very "DB Heros OC"
Vegeta is going to have his God of Destruction mode it seems obvious to me and I think I like the idea
Using "DB Heroes OC" is a weird way to complain about a design. I personally like most of designs created in Dragon Ball Heroes. Especially the demon realm characters and the avatar designs. Though I'm assuming you're not a fan of most of the new character designs in Dragon Ball Heroes based off your OC comment.
I personally hope whatever technique Beerus teaches Vegeta doesn't give him an over the top/busy transformation or anything like that, prefer more simplistic designs.
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:11 pm
Broly's gotta be involved in this arc somehow. I was disappointed that he didn't appear in the Moro arc. The ending of the Broly film had me thinking that he was going to be a reoccurring character in Super's story.
Nothing suggested that other than fan desire. He's stuffed away from Earth for a reason - he's not part of the main cast and that's perfectly fine. The modern content struggles to use what they have already.
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:11 pm
Broly's gotta be involved in this arc somehow. I was disappointed that he didn't appear in the Moro arc. The ending of the Broly film had me thinking that he was going to be a reoccurring character in Super's story.
Nothing suggested that other than fan desire. He's stuffed away from Earth for a reason - he's not part of the main cast and that's perfectly fine. The modern content struggles to use what they have already.
Goku telling Broly that he wants to train with him and Freeza wanting Broly to be his tool to combat Goku and Vegeta doesn't sound like fan desire to me. That ending heavily implied that there was more in store for Broly and it's about time he makes an appearance in the plot.
