Everything Dragon Ball Super Did Right!

[Jinto]

What DBS done right ? All of the filler/slice of life and everything that doesn't involve defeating a villain or fighting, from the funny dialogue to funny scene and seeing our beloved character everyday life

[ZombieVito]

- Gave better fights against Beerus.
- Corrected the mistakes RoF film made.
- Brought back Ginyu!
- A better Vegeta vs Freeza fight.
- Introduced more Saiyans and interesting races during the U6 arc. Giving us another Freeza race member was superb.
- Gave us Hit. A fighter that isn't all about power and has intersting time abilities.
- Brought back Kaioken and combined it with Blue.
- Future Trunks returns and isn't a weakling this time.
- Everything about Goku Black and Zamasu.
- Brought back the Mafuba.
- Vegetto came back and didn't get wanked by having him dominate Zamasu like he did with Boo.
- Finally revealed why Goku and Vegeta defused in the Boo arc.
- Gave us the most OP villain in all the franchise.
- Finally gave us real consequences in Dragon Ball.
- Gave us some of the best in between arcs episodes like the Baseball one.
- Female Saiyans!
- The return of Kuririn and Roshi.
- The Return of 17.
- Piccolo finally surpassing Cell.
- Gohan getting back Ultimate.
- Gave us more interesting fighters in the ToP like Ribrianne, Majikayo, Obuni, Damon, Dyspo, Toppo, etc.
- U6 Namekians actually being strong.
- Father and Son Kamehameha/Mankakosappo!
- Some of the best fights in the whole series are in the ToP.
- Both Ultra Instinct forms are amazing.
- They fixed Broly. THEY FUCKING FIXED BROLY. Praise the heavens.

This is of course all from the anime. The manga is awful and I honestly can't think of a single thing it did better than the anime.

[sunsetshimmer]

- Future Trunks returns and isn't a weakling this time.

What do you mean by "this time"? When F.Trunks appeared in Z he was the second strongest character after Goku. Even after being surpassed in late Cell arc he was still very strong. He also displayed stronger personality than DBS F.Trunks so i don't get how was he a weakling. He was badass in Z.

- Brought back the Mafuba.

Yeah, that idea was actually cool, but its execution was just anticlimatic with entire Goku forgetting a seal thing and Trunks learning Mafuba from smartphone tutorial made by embarassed Piccolo. This arc was supposed to be kinda dark, so such scene was pointless and ruined entire build up for this moment.

- Gave us the most OP villain in all the franchise

If you are reffering to Fused Zamasu then i disagree except for his "infinite Zamasu" concept, but that wasn't Fused Zamasu anymore. Super alone had more overpowered characters. Note that overpowered doesn't mean strongest. Broly was always overpowered af (and Super made him even more OP) but he wasn't the strongest Z villain around.

- Finally gave us real consequences in Dragon Ball.

Not really a first time, it's just that Zamasu arc had biggest consequences so far, for Trunks timeline at least.

- Female Saiyans!

We already saw them. But female super saiyans was a new and nice concept that i'm glad DBS introduced.

This is of course all from the anime. The manga is awful and I honestly can't think of a single thing it did better than the anime.

I have completely different opinion on that. I think anime was the garbage version of Super and manga was way better, especially Zamasu and ToP arcs.

[Cursed Lemon]

This probably should just go in the other thread, but the fact that the U6 saiyans had to learn super saiyan on the spot was really lame. It would've been way more interesting if they already knew multiple levels of super saiyan. It would've been a cool way to put some REAL heat on the heroes, reintroduce the legendary super saiyan form, and also - wait for it - possibly reintroduce SSJ4. Imagine if Cabba's scrawny 14-year-old dingus body emerged out of a debris cloud as a towering, chiseled, red-eyed menace about to give God Goku something to be seriously concerned about, while simultaneously LSSJ Kale and SSJ3 Caulifla went after Vegeta. That would've made me get on my knees in front of the TV like I was a kid again. It also would've made the ToP more interesting, letting U6 compete with more of the top fighters on their own.

[ZombieVito]

- Future Trunks returns and isn't a weakling this time.

What do you mean by "this time"? When F.Trunks appeared in Z he was the second strongest character after Goku. Even after being surpassed in late Cell arc he was still very strong. He also displayed stronger personality than DBS F.Trunks so i don't get how was he a weakling. He was badass in Z.

- Brought back the Mafuba.

Yeah, that idea was actually cool, but its execution was just anticlimatic with entire Goku forgetting a seal thing and Trunks learning Mafuba from smartphone tutorial made by embarassed Piccolo. This arc was supposed to be kinda dark, so such scene was pointless and ruined entire build up for this moment.

- Gave us the most OP villain in all the franchise

If you are reffering to Fused Zamasu then i disagree except for his "infinite Zamasu" concept, but that wasn't Fused Zamasu anymore. Super alone had more overpowered characters. Note that overpowered doesn't mean strongest. Broly was always overpowered af (and Super made him even more OP) but he wasn't the strongest Z villain around.

- Finally gave us real consequences in Dragon Ball.

Not really a first time, it's just that Zamasu arc had biggest consequences so far, for Trunks timeline at least.

- Female Saiyans!

We already saw them. But female super saiyans was a new and nice concept that i'm glad DBS introduced.

This is of course all from the anime. The manga is awful and I honestly can't think of a single thing it did better than the anime.

I have completely different opinion on that. I think anime was the garbage version of Super and manga was way better, especially Zamasu and ToP arcs.

- Trunks started strong in Z but faded into the background by the Cell games. In Super he is undisputedly the main character of the Black arc. Can't say the same for the manga.
- Trunks learning it that soon is a little iffy but having him and Mai do something with it is far better than giving Goku yet again something to do. Piccolo's video gave me a good laugh.
- Infinite Zamasu is Fused Zamasu. Also there's not a single villain/antagonist in the franchise that touches him. Not even Jiren can defeat Infinite Zamasu. Broly was never overpowered in Z, he can't even deafeat Boo.
- I can't remember anything outside of 16 or Tsuno village that stayed dead. This was a whole timeline, even the souls in the afterlife perished. There's no comparison.
- There wasn't female Saiyans shown in canon. This was the first time.
- Good for you. Welcome to the minority.

[sunsetshimmer]

- Trunks started strong in Z but faded into the background by the Cell games. In Super he is undisputedly the main character of the Black arc. Can't say the same for the manga.
- Trunks learning it that soon is a little iffy but having him and Mai do something with it is far better than giving Goku yet again something to do. Piccolo's video gave me a good laugh.
- Infinite Zamasu is Fused Zamasu. Also there's not a single villain/antagonist in the franchise that touches him. Not even Jiren can defeat Infinite Zamasu. Broly was never overpowered in Z, he can't even deafeat Boo.
- I can't remember anything outside of 16 or Tsuno village that stayed dead. This was a whole timeline, even the souls in the afterlife perished. There's no comparison.
- There wasn't female Saiyans shown in canon. This was the first time.
- Good for you. Welcome to the minority.

-Ok then. I think you could've described that better, as not being main character doesn't make him weakling.

-I wouldn't have anything against him learning it. It's just a fact he learned it so easily + that video tutorial is why i didn't like that scene, so rushed and anticlimatic for this arc. Also Goku forgetting the seal was dumb af. Such cheap way to make mafuba useless compared to what happened at 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi with Piccolo reversing it and eating a jar with Kami so Goku won't kill him. If we ignore all of that and focus on a mere fact that it was Trunks using it and not Goku then yeah, it's cool.

-In anime, it was regular Zamasu as it was his face displayed on sky, right? From my understanding, Fused Zamasu lost immortality at some point after fusing with Black and Trunks destroyed his physical body, leaving immortal soul of Zamasu himself only. Goku Black was completely dead at this point. Feel free to prove me being wrong, but that's what i always thought it was. Also, just like i said, overpowered doesn't mean strongest. Broly not being able to defeat Buu doesn't mean anything in this case. Buu was always considered OP character, even now which is obviously why they kept him sleeping all the time. And it obviously doesn't mean Buu is the strongest character in Super.

-Why do you assume consequence has to always mean permament death? After Shadow Dragons arc everyone was revived, but Goku left everyone, shenron took dragon balls away and people had to rebuilt everything on their own. Those are also consequences. And you didn't precise those had to be consequences that can't be fixed. Entire Cell arc was also a consequence of Trunks traveling in time. Goku's death was also a consequence, even if he was meant to die anyway if Trunks didn't bring him cure. Basically #19 and Gero appearing in present timeline was already a consequence of time travel.

-DB Minus is canon. And before Minus, you could actually consider Bardock special to be canon as well since Toriyama referenced it in manga.

-Well, where's majority, there's also a minority and there is nothing bad about that Being in majority doesn't mean being right or wrong, better or worse. Actually i think i'm mostly in minorities when it comes to some of my favourite franchises. Even for DB alone, a fact that i consider OG series to be superior to DBZ puts me in very minor part of fanbase and i feel great with my opinion.

[ZombieVito]

I guess I should have said Important and not weakling, yeah.

First thing first. Zamasu never lost immortality. Otherwise he would have died the moment his skull was cut in half. Also Trunks didn't destroyed his body. Zamasu did it himself.

There's no Zamasu part or Black part in Merged Zamasu. They effectively cease to exist the moment they fused and a new soul is created from them.

The reason Infinite Zamasu has regular Zamasu's face in him is because the soul is from the fusion of the same person. Even if Black switched bodies, his soul wouldn't change.

I wasn't talking OP as power alone. More like IZ is a force of nature that you simply can't beat if you are not Zeno. Nothing has been done like that before on the series and I doubt it will be repeated.

You are right about Minus. Completely forgot about it. Let's just say, Super Saiyan girls then.

[sunsetshimmer]

I guess I should have said Important and not weakling, yeah.

First thing first. Zamasu never lost immortality. Otherwise he would have died the moment his skull was cut in half. Also Trunks didn't destroyed his body. Zamasu did it himself.

There's no Zamasu part or Black part in Merged Zamasu. They effectively cease to exist the moment they fused and a new soul is created from them.

The reason Infinite Zamasu has regular Zamasu's face in him is because the soul is from the fusion of the same person. Even if Black switched bodies, his soul wouldn't change.

You are right about Minus. Completely forgot about it. Let's just say, Super Saiyan girls then.

Honestly, i was pretty sure that there was a scene of Vegito saying he is no longer immortal since he fused with Black who was mortal or something like that. And the reason his half started to corrupt was also because Black was mortal and so half of his body couldn't regenerate properly. My memory might be fooling me though or maybe i misunderstood Vegito's statement.

The point about soul makes sense i guess, although was it actually ever confirmed that fusion actually creates new soul?

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

I guess I should have said Important and not weakling, yeah.

First thing first. Zamasu never lost immortality. Otherwise he would have died the moment his skull was cut in half. Also Trunks didn't destroyed his body. Zamasu did it himself.

There's no Zamasu part or Black part in Merged Zamasu. They effectively cease to exist the moment they fused and a new soul is created from them.

The reason Infinite Zamasu has regular Zamasu's face in him is because the soul is from the fusion of the same person. Even if Black switched bodies, his soul wouldn't change.

You are right about Minus. Completely forgot about it. Let's just say, Super Saiyan girls then.

Honestly, i was pretty sure that there was a scene of Vegito saying he is no longer immortal since he fused with Black who was mortal or something like that. And the reason his half started to corrupt was also because Black was mortal and so half of his body couldn't regenerate properly. My memory might be fooling me though or maybe i misunderstood Vegito's statement.

The point about soul makes sense i guess, although was it actually ever confirmed that fusion actually creates new soul?

I think that I remember something like that too!

The mortal part of the fusion was like "corrupting" it.

Souls of fusions could be an interesting subject to analyze I guess.

[SupremeKai25]

Vegito thought that Zamasu lost his immortality by fusing with a ningen body, but he was wrong. Characters in a story can be wrong. If Zamasu was no longer immortal, he wouldn't have kept talking and laughing with his body (and brain) literally split in half. Gowasu later on confirms Zamasu was still immortal anyway.

Trunks didn't destroy Zamasu's body, Zamasu self-destructed. Gowasu explains that he cast off his flawed form and decided to merge with the cosmos.

Infinite Zamasu = Bodiless Fused Zamasu, they are the same individual. There is no distinction. No distinction is ever made in-universe. "Infinite" Zamasu is a fan-made term to refer to the final, evolved state of Fused Zamasu. But they aren't separate individuals. Fused Zamasu's soul looks like normal Zamasu because Goku Black WAS Zamasu. He didn't have Goku's soul, so it wouldn't make sense if a fusion of two Zamases had a soul that resembles Goku.

Basically what ZombieVito said.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

Vegito thought that Zamasu lost his immortality by fusing with a ningen body, but he was wrong. Characters in a story can be wrong. If Zamasu was no longer immortal, he wouldn't have kept talking and laughing with his body (and brain) literally split in half. Gowasu later on confirms Zamasu was still immortal anyway.

Trunks didn't destroy Zamasu's body, Zamasu self-destructed. Gowasu explains that he cast off his flawed form and decided to merge with the cosmos.

Infinite Zamasu = Bodiless Fused Zamasu, they are the same individual. There is no distinction. No distinction is ever made in-universe. "Infinite" Zamasu is a fan-made term to refer to the final, evolved state of Fused Zamasu. But they aren't separate individuals. Fused Zamasu's soul looks like normal Zamasu because Goku Black WAS Zamasu. He didn't have Goku's soul, so it wouldn't make sense if a fusion of two Zamases had a soul that resembles Goku.

Basically what ZombieVito said.

But, would you say the Fusion Zamasu is unstable, derivated from SSJR Goku Black mortal body?

[SupremeKai25]

But, would you say the Fusion Zamasu is unstable, derivated from SSJR Goku Black mortal body?

His body was unstable, Yes. That's probably part of the reason why he decided to embrace a new form at the end. But his soul was always 100% immortal. Vegito just assumed it wasn't because ????? Reasons. Well he was wrong, what a surprise.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

But, would you say the Fusion Zamasu is unstable, derivated from SSJR Goku Black mortal body?

His body was unstable, Yes. That's probably part of the reason why he decided to embrace a new form at the end. But his soul was always 100% immortal. Vegito just assumed it wasn't because ????? Reasons. Well he was wrong, what a surprise.

Ok, thanks for being elucidative!

Obviously, I understand that his soul would have to be immortal, because that was a completely different matter.

I am not against Zamasu by any means, because it was one of my favorite arcs of Super, in terms of plot and character development.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

I have a question for you guys...

I finished playing Dragon Ball Fusions recently and then I had a thought. "If Fusions takes place in Age 2016, and we know that DB, DBZ, DBS, DBGT, Heroes, Xenoverse 1 and 2 and Online come after it, and Old Kai dies in Age 1776; what happens after Fusions? There has to be something that comes after it, right?"

I thought about it for a while and asked around on Quora and Discord; nobody knew. I checked out the Dragon Ball Wiki for anything; there was nothing. Then, I thought "Why not ask the guys at Kanzenshuu? They might know something about this, right?"

So I ask...what happens after Dragon Ball Fusions? Does Dragon Ball's timeline truly end there?

[DBPirate]

Slice of life, the soundtrack, the antagonists and new characters in general, and the overall storyline were done very, very well in Super. I loved the additions to the lore such as the Gods of Destruction, the Angels, UI, Time Rings, and the multiverse. I also think that the Future Trunks and ToP arcs are among the best in the series.

[PurestEvil]

The TOP had some of the best action scenes.
The first chunk of the Black arc was great.
Zamasu was fucking fantastic.
Ultra Instinct was badass.
Freeza was a joy to watch (NOT IN RoF).
All the filler episodes were quite funny (NOT THE COPY VEGETA ARC).
Arale-chan.
The music is fire.
The recent Granola arc set up.

[Matches Malone]

I haven't read all the comment so I don't know if this was mentioned, but one thing Super has done right is improve over time. Where Super was and where it currently is is night and day. It started out with 2 of the worst arcs in the franchise (the movie retellings) and is now potentially going to deliver one of the franchise's best.

[SonReggie]

To be honest, in my view Super gave us what remains my favourite moment in all Dragonball.
Goku and Freeza (and 17) Vs Jiren.

That fight was just superb. The choreography was spot on, the music perfect - including the best use of Ultimate Battle. The stakes were absolutely massive.
To this day, rewatching that fight, particuarly the sequences where Frieza tried to take himself out with Jiren, and with Goku flying down to assist Freeza, blinking in and out of Super Saiyan form, unable to actually hold the form due to the fact he was absolutely running on fumes, and Freeza desperately holding onto Jiren's arm for Goku to get there, sends shivers down my spine.

DBS: Broly was good, but to date - for me - nothing tops DBS Ep131

[Matches Malone]

DBS: Broly was good, but to date - for me - nothing tops DBS Ep131

That and episode 130 were major highlights of the show, even compared to its 3 movies. I give the staff major credit for being able to pull them off as well as they did.

[PurestEvil]

DBS: Broly was good, but to date - for me - nothing tops DBS Ep131

That and episode 130 were major highlights of the show, even compared to its 3 movies. I give the staff major credit for being able to pull them off as well as they did.

Exactly, there was a reason why the Mexican government sponsored the live screenings of eps 130 and 131 for the public to watch. They were evidently the most visceral episodes of that series, so much hype with great payoff!