If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am Nobodies?
But Gohan and Piccolo fought that roid dude and even Moro...

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If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am Nobodies?
But Gohan and Piccolo fought that roid dude and even Moro...
Honestly? I couldn't spell it lmao.Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:07 amIf you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am Nobodies?
But Gohan and Piccolo fought that roid dude and even Moro...![]()
I did pay attention to the story. It's spelled out quite plainly in fact. Characters making a couple minor mistakes don't take away from the good things they do do. Happened with everyone in the ToP.The Undying wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 amIf you're going to respond to me, address the points I made instead of retorting with irrelevant, poorly articulated examples that focus on isolated team-ups and have nothing to do with leading a team of fighters.Kagari wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:22 am His role as the leader int he anime was anything but 'fluff'.
I just explained how it's little more than fruitless lipservice with some pretty detailed instances in the anime that show Gohan being incompetent, which you didn't actually address. Protecting Piccolo in some saccharine moment against two Namekian nobodies that have no chemistry with either of those characters isn't leading a team. Cooperating in combo attacks with Freeza (which isn't even in Freeza's character, by the way) isn't leading a team. Once again, the characters who were willing to cooperate with Gohan's role were the first to be eliminated and weren't coordinated in any way by Gohan's "leadership".
Pay attention to the story and stop exaggerating what happened because he's your favorite character.
If learning to spell his name isn't worth your time then he must not be that important.
Besides Hit, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost, Magetta, Botomo...yeah they're not all that strong when you think about it.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:05 amHow are Saonel and Pirina nobodies? They are the strongest of U6 besides Hit and even got eliminated last.
You do realize that Ultimate Gohan is Blue tier right?Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:16 am Besides Hit, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost, Magetta, Botomo...yeah they're not all that strong when you think about it.
Unfortunately.ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:22 amYou do realize that Ultimate Gohan is Blue tier right?
Hell, BASE fucking Gohan defeated Botamo. What the fuck man.
Not posting would have been a preferable response than this lame excuse of one.Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:28 am Unfortunately.
He did ? I mean he did...of course he did, it's not like I fell asleep half the time during the tournament.![]()
Of course I'm trolling, I honestly forgot about that part.
You spent two posts avoiding my actual points while rambling about things that had no relation to them. Either you weren't paying attention or you actually were being disingenuous.
What does that even mean?Kagari wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:09 am To discount that is unfair and to say they didn't have chemistry with Gohan and Piccolo is also disingenuous because Piccolo himself becomes overwhelmed by their spirit.
To be fair, I can barely remember anyone's name in that arc myself. Sure does say a lot about how forgettable Moro's goons (and their filler fights) were.Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:07 am If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.
We definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.MCDaveG wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:46 amWhat I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.
Universe 6 tournement, Future Trunks arc and TOP: Let me tell you something.Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:11 amWe definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.MCDaveG wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:46 amWhat I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.
Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:11 amWe definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.MCDaveG wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:46 amWhat I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with ToyotaroAt his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
There is nothing to correct. It would be nice to see the training, but it doesn't damage the story in any way, especially since the Z Fighters don't have character arcs that connect to the main narrative. This training culminates only in what Piccolo says to Goku "no point in training when we still can't defend the Earth".ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am Gohan also prepared for Moro but in typical Toyo fashion, we never saw it. I'm sure Toei will correct this.
I have my problems with the final execution of the fight between Vegeta and Moro and in relation to some directions they took with his character, but this is absolutely incorrect. There is an ACTUAL arc character for him in these stories, and in fact Toyo even found a new ground to explore it both in terms of motivation and powers in the Moro arc. He has established themes that are connected with the both main plot and the main villains (and I'm not just talking about Moro)Kagari wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:22 am And Vegeta's role is absolutely artificial in the sense that the main story beats aren't about him. They're about Goku's journey as this is Goku's story and not Vegeta's. It was nonsense in the manga for only Vegeta to fight Goku Black, just as an example. There's no reason behind it other than Toyotaro removing the chemistry between Goku and Black because of his own desires.
Also this! For the others to keep up - with Gohan it is easy, you can say that he has potential unlocked and if he trains, he just goes tiers up and maybe can tackle the same levels of Goku and Vegeta (either by getting hang of God ki or sometimes that fits him more, like UI).TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:14 amThere is nothing to correct. It would be nice to see the training, but it doesn't damage the story in any way, especially since the Z Fighters don't have character arcs that connect to the main narrative. This training culminates only in what Piccolo says to Goku "no point in training when we still can't defend the Earth".ZombieVito wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:01 am Gohan also prepared for Moro but in typical Toyo fashion, we never saw it. I'm sure Toei will correct this.
It would be much more beneficial to see the training between Goku and Merus to strengthen the connection and the relationship between them. Like others, I would like to see the Earth Warriors in action but only if Toyotaro and Toriyama are really willing to develop their characters or use them in a way more relevant to the main plot, if not then it will just feel like unecessary padding
It's not a dumb post. Sometimes there are key elements in the design of a character that foreshadow a future transformation. For example, it was super predictable from the beginning that Goku Black would fuse with someone else, because he only had one Potara earring. The writers obviously had Fusion in mind. I don't know if this is the case with Granolah, but Yes sometimes the characters are purposefully designed to hint/foreshadow a new form.OrangeBanana wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:31 am This is going to be such a dumb post but whatever.
I was looking at Granola's design and I am probably wrong but his design looks like it was made with a transformation in mind. I can totally see his hair either growing in length or becoming sharper. I've never designed characters so I don't know if this kind of stuff is planned or at least considered in the creative process.
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with ToyotaroAt his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
I'm not talking about the actual plots, but rather which Z fighters will take part in the final battle. Due to the massive power difference between Goku and Vegeta and everyone else, we can easily see that those 2 are the ones people will rely on in the end, unlike before when things could go any way.SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:50 am Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?
Did you predict that Zamasu would merge with the cosmos and kill everyone?
Did you predict that 17 would win the Tournament of Power?
Did you predict that Moro would merge with the Earth?
So I'm asking you again.Matches Malone wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:24 amI'm not talking about the actual plots, but rather which Z fighters will take part in the final battle. Due to the massive power difference between Goku and Vegeta and everyone else, we can easily see that those 2 are the ones people will rely on in the end, unlike before when things could go any way.SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:50 am Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?
Did you predict that Zamasu would merge with the cosmos and kill everyone?
Did you predict that 17 would win the Tournament of Power?
Did you predict that Moro would merge with the Earth?
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with ToyotaroAt his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
No, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that due to the massive power gap between the 2 saiyans and everyone else, the chances of anyone but them taking down the main villain are slim to none (although Future Trunks was an exception in the anime). If someone like Gohan or Piccolo started training and receiving serious attention, then we wouldn't be so sure things would be up to Goku and Vegeta to decide.