Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

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Taingo
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Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by Taingo » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:11 pm

Thinking about how Goku outright refused to be teleported back to Earth, I was wondering if Shenlong or Porunga can only affect people, who aren't the people summoning him or asking for a wish, if those said people allow themselves to be affected? Like since he the dragons wouldn't be able to straight up kill Frieza, they can't just teleport him into the hottest star in the universe if he outright refuses, no? Especially considering he's much stronger than the dragons? And I would assume the same would go for people like Cell, too? Just wondering about this because I hardly see it brought up, and I'm not sure how it'd work. Would they just power up and do their hardest to resist the dragon's power or something? Could that be what Goku did?

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Nagyzöld
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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by Nagyzöld » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:22 am

I read something interesting on dragon wiki, apparently the wishes also depend on the dragon's personality. Shenron is more ill-tempered and neutral, granting wishes no matter how evil they are. Porunga seems to be more patient and kind; he refused to transport Goku's soul on Earth along with Krillin's, because it meant killing his body. He also respected Goku's wish not to be teleported at that moment. Shenron did not revive Goku after Cell Games because 1. He cannot revive the same person twice, 2. Goku contacted his friends and asked them not. We can't be sure if he would've done it regardless, if he had the possibility. However, seeing how many revivals bring back LOADS of people and most of the time surprised, I doubt they are being asked for permission all the time, so I guess... plot convenience?

As for power that exceeds their own, I do believe they have their own limits. Shenron even explained he couldn't stop the Saiyans because they were too strong for him. It depends on the creator's own power. What is interesting though, they cannot kill stronger beings, but they can make them more powerful/immortal. Like when Shenron granted King Piccolo his youth back, and then K.P. sliced the dragon like a potato.

P.S. The "teleport enemies into the sun" theory I've heard many times before, we can discuss on this hypothesis endlessly, but we all know in the end it could have never happened because that'd be quite... anti-climatic. :mrgreen:

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dbgtFO
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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:32 am

They can't affect beings more powerful than their creators without permission from said being.
Though with enough creativity you can probably exploit their power to kill someone in deep space travel like Nappa and Vegeta were.
Maybe wish for their spacepods to break down?

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Lord Frieza
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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by Lord Frieza » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:21 pm

dbgtFO wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:32 am They can't affect beings more powerful than their creators without permission from said being.
Though with enough creativity you can probably exploit their power to kill someone in deep space travel like Nappa and Vegeta were.
Maybe wish for their spacepods to break down?
Well yes, when they asked to erase everyone's memories about Buu, I'm shore many people, if given the choice would have said no. I personally would have said that as I don't want my memory tampered with. Yet Shenron apparently did this to everyone with no resistance. I'm also fairly shore their are some people who've died in in Dragon Ball who did not wish to come back. Both outcomes are rather dark when you think of it outside our heroes little bubble but then this is Dragon Ball.

I'm fairly shore their were loop holes in dealing with Vegeta and Nappa has others have said, but anything directly affecting anyone stronger then the Dragon themselves seems to require consent. The only acceptation to this rule is Ultimate Shenron, who was able to turn Goku into a child despite only being as strong as Piccolo.

Super Sheron is able to by pure virtue of having vertually limitless power as far as we know. This was show with devastating clarity when he swapped Goku and Zamasu's mind and souls.

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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by ZodiacBeast » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:34 am

The Z Crew should have wished for some kind of dangerous item or being to be teleported into Veggie and Nappa's pods. That way it wouldn't be wishing directly upon them.

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Lionel
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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:37 am

It sort of already happened if you count Porunga teleporting Gohan and Vegeta to Earth from Namek with all of the Namekians. Did either of them mentally provide their consent for the mystical dragon to relocate probably light years from their current location? It's difficult to imagine Gohan leaving his father on a forsaken planet like that rather than continue to wait and hope that Goku makes it back in time.

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Re: Can Shenlong affect people without their permission?

Post by blacksymbiote » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:57 am

There's no answer to it as this was the only time it happened. The rule about not affecting stronger people than the creator only ever applied to killing them. Nowhere else did anyone outright refuse to be affected by the dragon and it actually work except with Goku on Yardrat. Sure the dragon couldn't kill Nappa and Vegeta but there was no rule against stranding them in deep space if the characters had thought about it. Realistically, they didn't even have to fight them. If they could have figured out the location and velocity of their pods, they could have shot missiles at them before they landed.

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