Early Buu Saga (Great Saiyaman)...A High Point in Popularity?

[McDonaldsGuy]

Momentum from the extremely popular Cell saga. It was pure DBZmania at this point.

Again the highest rated episode in the Great Saiyaman era aired SIX MONTHS after the Cell saga ended. The idea the high from the Cell saga lasted that long is ludicrous.

That's the entire point of momentum. People want to see DBZ so badly they all tune in right away. The season could've started with anything nd still would've broke ratings records.

I remember this back in the early 00s (I'm a 2007 join date after all). I remember being so hyped after the Cell saga. It could've been ANYTHING and I still would've bought the DVD/VHS tapes. One of my most nostalgic moments as a youngster was getting those tapes and watching them a million times and I promise you it wasn't to see the Great Saiyaman dance. However, seeing an older Gohan was a draw.

Like many people I started to lose interest during the Buu saga.

[MasenkoHA]

Momentum from the extremely popular Cell saga. It was pure DBZmania at this point.

Again the highest rated episode in the Great Saiyaman era aired SIX MONTHS after the Cell saga ended. The idea the high from the Cell saga lasted that long is ludicrous.

That's the entire point of momentum. People want to see DBZ so badly they all tune in right away. The season could've started with anything nd still would've broke ratings records.

I remember this back in the early 00s (I'm a 2007 join date after all). I remember being so hyped after the Cell saga. It could've been ANYTHING and I still would've bought the DVD/VHS tapes. One of my most nostalgic moments as a youngster was getting those tapes and watching them a million times and I promise you it wasn't to see the Great Saiyaman dance. However, seeing an older Gohan was a draw.

Like many people I started to lose interest during the Buu saga.

And that’s why your argument isn’t a good argument. You’re basing this from an American point of view. In the US the show went on nearly a year hiatus after the Cell Games and then ran Warriors of the Dead-Final Atonement within about a 3 month timeframe. So of course those episodes could (arguably) come off the high of the Cell Games. Especially since the Android/Cell saga was so popular on Toonami.


But this thread is about the show’s ratings IN JAPAN where they essentially aired one new episode a week. There was plenty of time for viewers who enjoyed the Cell Games to lose interest in the Great Saiyaman saga.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Uuuuuhhhh... I am the thread creator and I did mean to include the USA ratings. I just couldnt find them again.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I always liked the Gohan High School arc, I wish they would have given him a spin off series, but I heard it didn't so very well which is why Toriyama brought back Goku.

[Cure Dragon 255]

*HEAD HITS FUCKING WALL*

When will people stop saying that!? Even in a thread that shows data saying the exect opposite. If anyone didnt believe in Gohan and his potential for being the new main character was Toriyama himself.

Kanzenshuu shows that Gohan was the number 1 character at the time of the highschool arc and the ratings are red hot as well.

[ABED]

Goku is barely in those episodes. What's your metric to determine who is the most popular?

[Shaddy]

*HEAD HITS FUCKING WALL*

When will people stop saying that!? Even in a thread that shows data saying the exect opposite. If anyone didnt believe in Gohan and his potential for being the new main character was Toriyama himself.

Kanzenshuu shows that Gohan was the number 1 character at the time of the highschool arc and the ratings are red hot as well.

If I recall correctly, Toriyama brought Goku back because he personally didn't like Gohan as the new protagonist. If you ask me, he didn't have the pages or arc premise to really say particularly well. He's the Great Saiyaman for a few chapters and then...he isn't. Really I think Gohan wasn't afforded much of a chance, it's just not really much of a story, is it? I can see why Toriyama launched back into tournaments and chaotic demigods, but I wonder a lot what it would have been like if he'd done that without the Goku loophole.

Especially since, given the Buu arc we got...I don't feel like Goku's presence means much. Most of what we'd miss out on is the way he interacts with Vegeta. Don't get me wrong, the moment where he meets Goten is cute, and I'm not one of those "Z is Gohan's story" people, but I always thought it would have been cute for the saga to focus on Gohan and Videl as the leads with Goten and Trunks as backup. Maybe I just like badass fighting couples.

I think I remember Risu once editing the manga (or just drawing new panels?) so that when Gohan gets powered up to fight Super Buu, he actually goes in as Saiyaman, and not only is that hilarious, it felt more like the Gohan I knew for the entire first 2/3 of the arc, rather than a regression to his worst attitude during the Cell fight. Imagining more moments like that makes me think it really could have felt like the return of more wacky storytelling and fights that I think Toriyama wanted out of the story. Obviously you don't need to axe Goku for that, he fueled it before, but Gohan's brand of humor is a bit rarer, and I do like it quite a bit.

[MasenkoHA]

I always liked the Gohan High School arc, I wish they would have given him a spin off series, but I heard it didn't so very well which is why Toriyama brought back Goku.

The tv ratings were good (that’s kind of what this whole ass thread is about I’m pretty sure) so the manga likely sold well too. So obviously this isn’t true.

Also Kanzenshuu already covered this: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/boo/

Toriyama intended for Gohan to take over the main role and then changed his mind because Gohan wasn’t suited for the role. It was a creative decision not an audience feedback or executive decision.

Gohan was also THE most popular character (according to a poll) during The Cell Games but by the time he was fighting Super Boo didn’t break the top 5.

[ABED]

Thankfully he didn't listen to the audience though I question how scientific those polls are.

[Cure Dragon 255]

*HEAD HITS FUCKING WALL*

When will people stop saying that!? Even in a thread that shows data saying the exect opposite. If anyone didnt believe in Gohan and his potential for being the new main character was Toriyama himself.

Kanzenshuu shows that Gohan was the number 1 character at the time of the highschool arc and the ratings are red hot as well.

If I recall correctly, Toriyama brought Goku back because he personally didn't like Gohan as the new protagonist. If you ask me, he didn't have the pages or arc premise to really say particularly well. He's the Great Saiyaman for a few chapters and then...he isn't. Really I think Gohan wasn't afforded much of a chance, it's just not really much of a story, is it? I can see why Toriyama launched back into tournaments and chaotic demigods, but I wonder a lot what it would have been like if he'd done that without the Goku loophole.

Especially since, given the Buu arc we got...I don't feel like Goku's presence means much. Most of what we'd miss out on is the way he interacts with Vegeta. Don't get me wrong, the moment where he meets Goten is cute, and I'm not one of those "Z is Gohan's story" people, but I always thought it would have been cute for the saga to focus on Gohan and Videl as the leads with Goten and Trunks as backup. Maybe I just like badass fighting couples.

I think I remember Risu once editing the manga (or just drawing new panels?) so that when Gohan gets powered up to fight Super Buu, he actually goes in as Saiyaman, and not only is that hilarious, it felt more like the Gohan I knew for the entire first 2/3 of the arc, rather than a regression to his worst attitude during the Cell fight. Imagining more moments like that makes me think it really could have felt like the return of more wacky storytelling and fights that I think Toriyama wanted out of the story. Obviously you don't need to axe Goku for that, he fueled it before, but Gohan's brand of humor is a bit rarer, and I do like it quite a bit.

I kinda dont mean to be rude or mean but that is exactly what I meant to say. Toriyama didnt believe in Gohan as a main character and that's what happened.

[MyVisionity]

I don't think Toriyama likes Gohan very much. He seems like more of a Goku person at heart.

As for returning to "wacky storytelling", Toriyama may have wanted that but it was too late. The story had long since moved past that. You have to progress and move forward in a story, not go backwards. That's why despite the attempts at silliness, it's the darkness and bleakness of the saga that ultimately takes over. The fact that Toriyama wanted to resurrect the gag humor was a sign that it was time to end the series.

[ABED]

i've changed my tune on a lot of the humor in the Buu arc. It's a good compliment to the darker aspects.

[McDonaldsGuy]

Again the highest rated episode in the Great Saiyaman era aired SIX MONTHS after the Cell saga ended. The idea the high from the Cell saga lasted that long is ludicrous.

That's the entire point of momentum. People want to see DBZ so badly they all tune in right away. The season could've started with anything nd still would've broke ratings records.

I remember this back in the early 00s (I'm a 2007 join date after all). I remember being so hyped after the Cell saga. It could've been ANYTHING and I still would've bought the DVD/VHS tapes. One of my most nostalgic moments as a youngster was getting those tapes and watching them a million times and I promise you it wasn't to see the Great Saiyaman dance. However, seeing an older Gohan was a draw.

Like many people I started to lose interest during the Buu saga.

And that’s why your argument isn’t a good argument. You’re basing this from an American point of view. In the US the show went on nearly a year hiatus after the Cell Games and then ran Warriors of the Dead-Final Atonement within about a 3 month timeframe. So of course those episodes could (arguably) come off the high of the Cell Games. Especially since the Android/Cell saga was so popular on Toonami.


But this thread is about the show’s ratings IN JAPAN where they essentially aired one new episode a week. There was plenty of time for viewers who enjoyed the Cell Games to lose interest in the Great Saiyaman saga.

Your other post explains it - Gohan was the most popular character during the Cell Games. The hype to seeing adult Gohan was super high. To see them "in the future."

It was just a culmination of hype. It happens in all sorts of mediums. Movie sequels almost always have bigger opening weekends than the original movies for example. My experience is similar to their experience as I started to lose interest during the Buu saga, but I was so hyped up for Great Saiyaman Saga.

[90sDBZ]

It's interesting to watch the opening and ending for the Buu saga, which both focus heavily on Gohan. Both were used for the entirety of the Buu saga, even after Gohan got absorbed and was out of action from that point on. The opening in particular shows off Super Saiyan Gohan in a way that hints he'll do significant stuff beyond Saiyaman. It's clear Toei thought he was going to stay the lead.

You have to wonder how things would have played out if Toriyama didn't change his mind. What would GT have been like? Would it have even existed?

I'm a fan of both Goku and Gohan so I can see both sides of the argument. I can understand some fans feeling letdown. From the time Gohan pulled out the Z-Sword to Buutenks overpowering him, it really felt like he was being built up as the hero in a similar way to Goku in previous arcs. They had the whole emotional goodbye between him and Goku, his final conversion with Kibito about how he wasn't going to let the world down again, and even Goku saying to Supreme Kai that a dead guy has no place interfering. And then Gohan's arrival and subsequent beatdown of Buu while wearing his fathers gi further established the "passing of the torch" theme. And then before we know it that all goes out the window, and Goku and Vegeta must return.

As much as I love Gohan I do prefer Goku as the lead overall, and despite feeling slightly disappointed I was mostly very happy to see Goku return. This is one time when the story really surprised me, as I honestly didn't think Goku would ever return to life.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yeah, Gohan was my favourite character when the Cell and early Buu arcs aired on Cartoon Network UK, and I was excited to see his journey but the switch back to Goku was a welcome subversion of the typical "passing the torch" theme.

Nowadays I prefer Goku, but Gohan is still a neat character and I like that he's different to Goku being more of an academic and less a hick as it's interesting seeing different personalities.

[Nagyzöld]

The fact that Toriyama wanted to resurrect the gag humor was a sign that it was time to end the series.

He should have ended the series when the mere idea of bringing Goku back to life, again, popped in his mind.

The bittersweet ending of Gohan saying goodbye to Goku, forever, was everything the series needed. The 90's anime Dragon Ball is the kind of masterpiece which ages well, like wine. But if you keep opening that wine over and over, it will spoil eventually. Times are changing, and shonen anime along with it.