Does anyone else feel that much of the DB fandom enforces low standards?

[ABED]

I'd like to add that in DBZ, Goku kept his plan to defeat Cell a secret but for no logical reason. At least in Super you can justify them keeping certain secrets to protect people, but in Super, there was no reason to keep his plan a secret from Gohan.

[super michael]

I do know what teasing is, but them wanting to help is not the writers teasing the audience. Teasing is setting up expectations and then subverting them. I didn't expect they would do anything. Besides, Trunks and Goten are mischievous, and do things they aren't supposed to. If they really wanted to help, they wouldn't be dissuaded by being told not to. And after they ended up not doing much of anything important in DBZ, I was sure that trend would continue in Super, probably even moreso considering where they were at the end of Z. Goten isn't as concerned with training, and Trunks is made to enter by his father. In the intervening years, they are clearly not as interested in martial arts.

Not telling them about Freeza's men taking the DB's isn't actively keeping the truth from them and it's not teasing. It's objectively not teasing. How you read that as a tease, I don't have a single clue.

they don't pretend that Goten and Trunks will do something, only for nothing to happen

Neither did the anime. You read into those examples what you wanted to.

When Trunks asked Vegeta to join the U6 vs U7, that created the expectation that he is willing to put time training to join the tournament. However that ended up going nowhere. This is anime exclusive, aka filler by Toei.

When Goten and/or Trunks wanted to train with Vegeta, that created the expectation that they would train and level up a lot, seeing Vegeta has no problem teaching Cabba and training Future Trunks or Whis training anyone as long as he gets food. However that was false expectation since it didn’t happen and it was just Toei filler all of it. Those things never happened in the manga and Chi Chi is never shown to be a tiger mum in the manga.

We know in Dragon Ball anyone who trains with anyone strong, they level up a lot. That is what happens every time.

Goten and Trunks has never shown to disobey their parents, they only disobey as Gotenks.

The Broly movie didn’t count as teasing, but it still counts as keeping secret.

The humans and Gohan didn’t do anything important in the Buu Saga and EOZ but that didn’t stop them from being relevant in DBS, not sure why only Goten and Trunks should get affected. Beside we are told they get lazy, but so far we never seen them lazy in DBS.

As for Goku keeping his plan a secret in the Cell Game I see no reason why keep something like that a secret.

Gotenks and Goku are the only Saiyans capable of going Super Saiyan 3 in the entire universe, that speaks of their skills. Gotenks created some powerful techniques.

[ABED]

No, that showed us he wanted to join, it didn't create expectations that he would join.

That's not keeping a secret. It's just not telling kids information they don't need to know.

It seems like the writers don't see the dramatic potential in Goten and Trunks. That doesn't make it bad writing.

Goten and Trunks has never shown to disobey their parents

They disobeyed the rules of the Tenkaichi Budokai and fought in the adult division in secret. Also, when the team flew off to follow Yamu and Spopovitch, they didn't bring Goten and Trunks. It's for a simple reason you don't seem to grasp - the parents are protecting their young children.

As for Goku keeping his plan a secret in the Cell Game I see no reason why keep something like that a secret.

Agreed and I recall you saying in the original manga they didn't keep secrets.

[super michael]

No, that showed us he wanted to join, it didn't create expectations that he would join.

That's not keeping a secret. It's just not telling kids information they don't need to know.

It seems like the writers don't see the dramatic potential in Goten and Trunks. That doesn't make it bad writing.

Goten and Trunks has never shown to disobey their parents

They disobeyed the rules of the Tenkaichi Budokai and fought in the adult division in secret. Also, when the team flew off to follow Yamu and Spopovitch, they didn't bring Goten and Trunks. It's for a simple reason you don't seem to grasp - the parents are protecting their young children.

As for Goku keeping his plan a secret in the Cell Game I see no reason why keep something like that a secret.

Agreed and I recall you saying in the original manga they didn't keep secrets.

They didn’t tell them so they wouldn’t get involved in those battles. They are older than Gohan and nowadays they are teenager that looks like kids.

I specifically said parents, since I knew they broke the tournament rules. However I just remember when their identity was revealed they disobey their mums. So I am wrong about them never disobeying their parents.

Only those in the adults tournament were involved, those not competing didn’t follow them. Beside Goten and Trunks were no where to be found.

Goku kept his plan a secret, but he didn’t keep the Cell Games or Cell a secret. How is keeping the ToP a secret the same like keeping his plan a secret?

[MasenkoHA]

. They are older than Gohan and nowadays they are teenager that looks like kids.

Fans keep saying this but I think its just simply time to accept Goten and Trunks aren’t teenagers. They’re still somehow roughly the same age as they were in the Boo saga. Same with Marron being about 3 still.

Does it make any sense? No but its something fans just have to accept as being the case here.

[super michael]

. They are older than Gohan and nowadays they are teenager that looks like kids.

Fans keep saying this but I think its just simply time to accept Goten and Trunks aren’t teenagers. They’re still somehow roughly the same age as they were in the Boo saga. Same with Marron being about 3 still.

Does it make any sense? No but its something fans just have to accept as being the case here.

That is impossible, since Pan and Bra are born and has aged. The Dragon Balls has been used about 4 times, which takes 1 year to recharge.

1st Freeza to revive
2nd Super Dragon Ball
3rd Super Dragon Ball
4th Broly movie

Five times if we count the Dragon Balls used to cure Pan of her illness.

The time line is now age 780 in the present time line, just like when Future Trunks was age 14 in year 780.

Therefore Present Trunks age = Future Trunks age when training with Future Gohan.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

. They are older than Gohan and nowadays they are teenager that looks like kids.

Fans keep saying this but I think its just simply time to accept Goten and Trunks aren’t teenagers. They’re still somehow roughly the same age as they were in the Boo saga. Same with Marron being about 3 still.

Does it make any sense? No but its something fans just have to accept as being the case here.

I mean Super takes place somewhere in that same span of time after Majin Buu's defeat as the JSAT/Yo! Son Goku and His Friends OVA somewhere before the final time skip to the end of the manga and Z effectively. Goten and Trunks are still around their Buu arc ages so clearly they aren't even close to being teenagers yet.

[super michael]

. They are older than Gohan and nowadays they are teenager that looks like kids.

Fans keep saying this but I think its just simply time to accept Goten and Trunks aren’t teenagers. They’re still somehow roughly the same age as they were in the Boo saga. Same with Marron being about 3 still.

Does it make any sense? No but its something fans just have to accept as being the case here.

I mean Super takes place somewhere in that same span of time after Majin Buu's defeat as the JSAT/Yo! Son Goku and His Friends OVA somewhere before the final time skip to the end of the manga and Z effectively. Goten and Trunks are still around their Buu arc ages so clearly they aren't even close to being teenagers yet.

That is impossible seeing 4 times the Dragon Ball was used in total or 5 times if we count that filler episode.

I explained it why in my previous post about Pan, Bra and the time line now is age 780. Pan was 3 or 4 years old in EOZ.

Don’t let the character design fool you, they are just lazy to design.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Fans keep saying this but I think its just simply time to accept Goten and Trunks aren’t teenagers. They’re still somehow roughly the same age as they were in the Boo saga. Same with Marron being about 3 still.

Does it make any sense? No but its something fans just have to accept as being the case here.

I mean Super takes place somewhere in that same span of time after Majin Buu's defeat as the JSAT/Yo! Son Goku and His Friends OVA somewhere before the final time skip to the end of the manga and Z effectively. Goten and Trunks are still around their Buu arc ages so clearly they aren't even close to being teenagers yet.

That is impossible seeing 4 times the Dragon Ball was used in total or 5 times if we count that filler episode.

I explained it why in my previous post about Pan, Bra and the time line now is age 780. Pan was 3 or 4 years old in EOZ.

Don’t let the character design fool you, they are just lazy to design.

I guess that could explain it, though it really would've been better if they had made it more clear that Goten and Trunks are both older. Maybe not quite as old design wise as they appear in the final chapter of the OG manga/Z episodes 290 and 291 post time skip but still something where you can tell they've grown in universe.

[super michael]

I mean Super takes place somewhere in that same span of time after Majin Buu's defeat as the JSAT/Yo! Son Goku and His Friends OVA somewhere before the final time skip to the end of the manga and Z effectively. Goten and Trunks are still around their Buu arc ages so clearly they aren't even close to being teenagers yet.

That is impossible seeing 4 times the Dragon Ball was used in total or 5 times if we count that filler episode.

I explained it why in my previous post about Pan, Bra and the time line now is age 780. Pan was 3 or 4 years old in EOZ.

Don’t let the character design fool you, they are just lazy to design.

I guess that could explain it, though it really would've been better if they had made it more clear that Goten and Trunks are both older. Maybe not quite as old design wise as they appear in the final chapter of the OG manga/Z episodes 290 and 291 post time skip but still something where you can tell they've grown in universe.

There is the design of GT Goten and Trunks when they were in the beach. Although Pan was a toddler who could walk and talk.

I forgot BoG wish to know about the Super Saiyan God, Shenrong count that as a wish.

[MasenkoHA]

Like I said, does it make sense that none of these three have aged? No but again its clearly the case.


I mean Pan is still no more than a year old despite your pointing out that a few years logically should have passed by the end of Super.

[super michael]

Like I said, does it make sense that none of these three have aged? No but again its clearly the case.


I mean Pan is still no more than a year old despite your pointing out that a few years logically should have passed by the end of Super.

I don't know what they have against them aging, I mean in the anime we literally see Goku Black go one year into the future to steal Goku body, but still Goten hasn't aged one bit. The reason he goes one year into the future is because the Super Dragon Balls was used in U6 vs U7 and needed 1 year to recharge.

Somehow in the Broly movie Goten and Trunks looks younger than ever, they look younger than in the Buu Saga.
As for Pan her aging has been weird although Bra her hair has fully grown unlike in the ToP.

As for Future Trunks in DBS they changed him to never having purple hair at all.

[Koitsukai]

I always felt Goku didn't tell Gohan that he'd be the one to defeat Cell with his hidden power, to reduce any kind of anxiety on his part.
A 10 year-old might get a little nervous in those 10 days before having to save the world, while having to act on the spot might skip the self-doubt moments. Spoiler: it did not.

But yeah, at least Piccolo could've been told about it, and together come up with a better strategy than just throwing him to the wolves and healing the wolves trying to elicit some angry reaction.

[MyVisionity]

I disagree with this idea that Goku was trying to protect his friends or that he and Vegeta were trying to protect their children. Goten and Trunks simply lack the training and experience to be involved in potentially dangerous battles. Being a "good parent" don't have much to do with it.

Roshi and Kuririn couldn't be revived by the Dragon Balls is why. Is Goku gonna protect them from getting hurt really bad?

Goku wanted to fight Recoom alone cuz he's a martial artist and wanted to test out his new power. He's not protecting anyone.

[ABED]

I disagree with this idea that Goku was trying to protect his friends or that he and Vegeta were trying to protect their children. Goten and Trunks simply lack the training and experience to be involved in potentially dangerous battles. Being a "good parent" don't have much to do with it.

Roshi and Kuririn couldn't be revived by the Dragon Balls is why. Is Goku gonna protect them from getting hurt really bad?

Goku wanted to fight Recoom alone cuz he's a martial artist and wanted to test out his new power. He's not protecting anyone.

To answer the second question, yes. He does the same with Gohan and Kuririn against Vegeta. He asks them to go back to Muten Roshi's so they don't get hurt.

And yes, Goku was protecting them. There was no need for them to get involved.

I always felt Goku didn't tell Gohan that he'd be the one to defeat Cell with his hidden power, to reduce any kind of anxiety on his part.
A 10 year-old might get a little nervous in those 10 days before having to save the world, while having to act on the spot might skip the self-doubt moments. Spoiler: it did not.

And surprising Gohan is the best way to combat the anxiety?

[MasenkoHA]

I don’t think Goku saving Gohan as a trump card was more than anything than Goku wanting to test Cell out for himself and then “Ope I can’t win time to bring out my son” i.e Toriyama decided Gohan’s hidden power subplot should have some sort of pay off after basically shoving Gohan to the background after the Saiyan arc

[MyVisionity]

And surprising Gohan is the best way to combat the anxiety?

It's like the kid who's afraid of getting in the water. You just have to grab them and throw them right into the pool. Gohan has the training, experience, and power by that point, there's no reason to think he wouldn't be ok.

[ABED]

And surprising Gohan is the best way to combat the anxiety?

It's like the kid who's afraid of getting in the water. You just have to grab them and throw them right into the pool. Gohan has the training, experience, and power by that point, there's no reason to think he wouldn't be ok.

It's more like a teacher passing out a test that's worth 50% of their students' grade without telling them ahead of time. So sure, they won't be anxious for a few days ahead of time, but not a good idea.

And even if we stay with your analogy, it's more like someone who can't swim themselves throwing a kid in the deep end. Goku didn't have the power to defeat Cell so if Gohan cracks under the pressure, he's SOL. When a parent throws their kid in the pool the assumption is if the kid starts to drown the parent is there to protect them. Fat load of good that does if the parent also can't swim.

[super michael]

Gohan didn’t get strong just because of his potential, he got strong thanks to his training and those that unlocked his potential.
The evidence is Future Gohan, he didn’t have Piccolo (Nails fused) and Goku to train with and the ROSAT, so he ended up weaker than C17 and C18 despite being older than Present Gohan.

Goten and Trunks are weaker thanks to their parents not wanting them to train. DBZ they never stopped a character from fighting and training 100% of the time thanks to other character, however in DBS Goten and Trunks are always stopped 100% thanks to other characters.

[ABED]

Gohan didn’t get strong just because of his potential, he got strong thanks to his training and those that unlocked his potential.
The evidence is Future Gohan, he didn’t have Piccolo (Nails fused) and Goku to train with and the ROSAT, so he ended up weaker than C17 and C18 despite being older than Present Gohan.

Goten and Trunks are weaker thanks to their parents not wanting them to train. DBZ they never stopped a character from fighting and training 100% of the time thanks to other character, however in DBS Goten and Trunks are always stopped 100% thanks to other characters.

At the end of DBZ they had stopped training as intensely so it makes sense. If they really wanted to train, they would.

Future Gohan trains all the time and he has plenty of experience fighting stronger enemies. He's battle tested. And Gohan doesn't reach SSJ2 because he's trained for it. He doesn't even know he has it.