So its been many years, are alternate hair colors for Super Saiyan transformations a good or bad idea

[ABED]

How is Broly's rage form not just a recolor?

The transformations hit the point of diminishing marginal returns years and several transformations ago.

[kemuri07]

How is Broly's rage form not just a recolor?

The transformations hit the point of diminishing marginal returns years and several transformations ago.

They stopped having an emotional impact because it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't tell anything about these characters; it's just a cool new power-up you can sell mangas and toys.

[Mad Swami]

How is Broly's rage form not just a recolor?

The transformations hit the point of diminishing marginal returns years and several transformations ago.

I somewhat agree. I mean Broly's form functionally is simply just more of what Super Saiyan was originally. Makes him bigger, makes him lose reason, increases his power greatly. The only difference is how much bigger and how much of his control he loses. However I hardly find it to be the most egregious case at least imo.

And throughout the years we have gotten some decent forms. SSJ4 is great and SSG actually works really well in its inception. It's when we get into Blue territory or Rose that it's really mind numbingly lazy.

[ABED]

I like Rose because it's not a different transformation. It was Zamasu's version of the same transformation but the color speaks to his vanity

TV is a visual medium so I get why they turned the concept of ultra instinct into a transformation as it feels like a concept difficult to convey visually (i.e., how do you convey Goku is fighting without thinking?)

[Mad Swami]

I like Rose because it's not a different transformation. It was Zamasu's version of the same transformation but the color speaks to his vanity

TV is a visual medium so I get why they turned the concept of ultra instinct into a transformation as it feels like a concept difficult to convey visually (i.e., how do you convey Goku is fighting without thinking?)

Don't get me wrong I personally enjoy rose too, however I would say it being canonically a color pallet doesn't fully exempt it from the fact it is the way it is to have a 'new form' (not really a new form but a new color for people to enjoy)

Well yeah absolutely. I like Omen a lot and I get why visually the series goes the extra step but I personally don't enjoy it

[Tai Lung]

Transformations are only good when they have a story behind ...
Ultra instinct and Super Saiyan
A workout explained
SSB and maybe Ikari Form
but for most cases it is still a color change and that should be fine for goku and the saiyans stop asking for a drastic transformation like the current shonen




They do not make sense in DB and their style is completely different, it would seem very edgy that the Saiyans adopt similar forms

The only times I agree drastic transforms work are with them





I think they make sense given the change in attitude in the character and that they are characters of different races with different powers
Ironically there are those who do not like these transformations either, but in short the design is generally somewhat subjective.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I like all those ideas for Super Saiyan God, as they distinguish it from the original Super Saiyan transformation.

Super Saiyan Blue, by comparison is too similar to Super Saiyan aesthetically and only waters down the concept of being Godly to just another generic transformation.

Ultra Instinct is a slight improvement because it's based on the separation of bodily and conscious movements, so it at very least has something to say for itself other than being a pallette swap.

I'm not saying new forms need to be complicated to draw, just that they should have their own identity either aesthetically or conceptually.

I can accept Blue's similarity with the normal Super Saiyan because ultimately that's the point of the form, No? It's the result of a Super Saiyan God using Super Saiyan on top of his divine transformation. The visual connection is intended.

All God forms have their identity really. The only exception is Blue, which is kind of very similar to Red, but ultimately that's the point. Blue is a direct evolution of Red, it's just natural that it would have some visual connection to it.

I get that's the point of the form, but it still feels lazy when you consider how unplanned and poorly executed it was. Being announced as late as it was into the promotion of Resurrection F made it look like a last minute move to sell more toys. And as uninspired as the names of the God forms sound the Blue form's original title "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" is really no better, and is perhaps the silliest name we've had for a transformation.

It would have felt more organic if the Red form was "Saiyan God" and Blue was "Super Saiyan God". The point of the latter being a combination of the former with the original Super Saiyan transformation would be retained and the transformation names would be simpler but more effective and less jarring.

Yes I know Toriyama was not much of a planner when he was fully in charge of the story during the Manga's original run, but he was far better at executing things flying by the seat of his pants than the writers at TOEI are.

[sunsetshimmer]

The problem isn't changing colors itself but laziness, how many times Super does that, as well as those colors being completely random. Also, those forms do not change anything but hair color and aura. That doesn't even include saiyans only, as Golden Frieza is another example of laziness.

As you mentioned, OG Broly had different hair color, but he was exception, a legendary super saiyan. Something that new Broly or Kale are not.
About SSJ4. That form never had established look. It was always more or less unique for every user by changing different parts of clothes and having different fur.

Super has very simple and established designs, like SSJG is base form with red hair and SSJB is SSJ with blue hair. Then you have some copies like SSJ Rose or SSJB Evolution + Ultra Instinct obviously.

If they wanted to change colors, why not make SSGSS just SSJ with red hair let's say? To follow SSJG route. Was there really any need to give them yet another color without any good in-universe explanation? Why did Goku Black had to use different color as well when it's basically the same form? I mean sure, GT also did similar thing with Baby Vegeta having white hair despite using regular SSJ, but there was a good reason for that which was mutation and Vegeta's body being controlled by parasite. Didn't Goku Black and Frieza admit that they chose those colors by themselves? That is very anticlimatic approach clearly done for pure fanservice.

They could also just make god forms unique to every user. I always thought SSJG looked better on Goku while SSJB looked better on Vegeta, so why not just give Goku new forms with red hair and do the same for Vegeta, just with blue hair? That could also explain Black having yet another color, pink.

Also, why not change something more about those forms? Okay, make SSGSS have blue hair, but change something about design except for that as well.

[Matches Malone]

If they wanted to change colors, why not make SSGSS just SSJ with red hair let's say? To follow SSJG route.

I remember reading that Toriyama originally intended on SsjG being a power up with no physical changes to the user, but decided against it later on out of fear of people not understanding Goku's change in power. It would explain why at the end Goku fought Beerus in his regular Ssj form, as that's what he intended the entire fight to be like. I personally don't have an issue with SsjG in the BOG movie, as there were other differences to it besides the hair color, but everything after was just overkill.

[Tai Lung]

If they wanted to change colors, why not make SSGSS just SSJ with red hair let's say? To follow SSJG route.

I remember reading that Toriyama originally intended on SsjG being a power up with no physical changes to the user, but decided against it later on out of fear of people not understanding Goku's change in power. It would explain why at the end Goku fought Beerus in his regular Ssj form, as that's what he intended the entire fight to be like. I personally don't have an issue with SsjG in the BOG movie, as there were other differences to it besides the hair color, but everything after was just overkill.

you're right .. ssb was too early

[Big Boss]

Toriyama has always been a lazy-ass and loves coming up with solutions which are the least amount of work for him. The SSJ hair recolors are just an extension of his own philosophy and no one should be surprised it happened. It's completely boring and uncreative and adds nothing of emotional value to the franchise at all. It does nothing to extend the lore of the Saiyans, and exists only as a quick and easy solution to progress the story forward with minimal effort.

[Matches Malone]

Toriyama has always been a lazy-ass and loves coming up with solutions which are the least amount of work for him.

Toriyama and any weekly mangaka are as far away from lazy as you can get.

[super michael]

Super Saiyan God looks like base form, however there are some differences. Super Saiyan God has red hair, a slimmer body and red and black in the eye. In my eyes Super Saiyan God was creative.

Super Saiyan Blue is extremely lazy, they basically got Super Saiyan 1 and coloured his hair and eyes to blue. The same can't be said said of Super Saiyan God.

I prefer Super Saiyan 4 since it is unique between users that transformation and looks powerful.

[Matches Malone]

Super Saiyan God looks like base form, however there are some differences. Super Saiyan God has red hair, a slimmer body and red and black in the eye. In my eyes Super Saiyan God was creative.

It also required a ritual to reach, as well as having a limited time to be used. Both of these have unfortunately been removed, taking away parts of what made it unique. This form should've been the last one, a form that is only used as a last option like fusion.

[Tai Lung]

Another thing is that it has also seemed hypocritical to me is the comparison that others make with manga and anime with respect to the SSB claiming that the manga versions are better when all the SSB derivatives are terrible ...
Blue x Kaioken ok at least it added tension to goku's battle and hit but then it was PU anyone ...
Blue 100% or Blue Full Power worse still quite inconsistent if you take into account that SSB was already 100% of the SSJG
Vegeta's SSBE in both versions is just a rehash of the original transformation ... however apparently the other one is better just for having a different aura? ..
they are the same thing according to the author's script but they continue with an argument that the shade of blue is different and therefore better ...

[Cipher]

My honest stance on it is that if DB is going to continue, adding forms continues to be what it has always been--an elegant solution to the problem of escalating stakes and scales when visual capacity to escalate them has run out.

Characters can't be destroying the planet they're standing on with each breath, but if you establish that a certain color of Goku can do that, then show me a villain punching that color of Goku, I understand the increase in scale by proxy. And from there, my brain can comprehend without a second of reflection that a villain punching some later color of Goku might indicate they could have punched through five previous colors. It sounds silly, but it works--the audience will accept that kind of visual shorthand (or lie, you could call it less generously), and ride along with the excitement of increasing scale just as they would have when we were able to more easily see visual differences in the action. (Of course increases in visual spectacle are more fun, but DB has been past the point of really being able to rely on them since the end of the Freeza arc. Although I'd argue the Boo arc occasionally gets in its moments of pulling this magic trick off.)

That said, what is a bit of elegant shorthand in escalation-oriented action comics of this vein can also become tiring if done too frequently. In that vein ... I actually have to tip my hat further to Super as it has existed up to this point. Especially in the manga, more time is put into more effectively utilizing Blue and variations on it than introducing any actual new transformations. It has only just now, as of the current storyline, been replaced as the go-to, despite getting digestible improvements each arc so that we can still follow an idea of escalation to the fights.

Where it'll go from here, I can't say, but I do feel like it's managed things just about as well as it could.

I know some people feel Saiyan transformation fatigue adding in Black, Kale, Broly, and I suppose even Gohan's individual variations on top of what Goku and Vegeta have done with Blue, but they're no different in function than any antagonist-specific techniques of the past (or unique, non-transformation-based growth for Gohan just as the end of original DB offered).

But maybe that's all aside of what the thread is really getting at and it's really just asking about the specific visual route of giving the transformations different colors. I think it's fine, I guess, as the alternative is increasingly busy transformations as the original run had to go with. Of course, the reason the original run did that was because of the black and white nature of the medium, so the color-coded transformations certainly don't play as well with the manga as they could. In exchange, Toyotaro has done some work with the various auras I appreciate, but certainly that's one of the reasons I actual feel the digital color version of the manga works a bit better, and I have to imagine that color-coding is probably not the route the series would have taken had Super been envisioned with its manga playing as prominent a role as it would eventually come to. I suppose that's really my only issue with them.

By the way--I think all of the comments to the extent of "Different hair colors are the realm of fanfiction, but different, elaborate hair styles aren't" are way off base.

[DragonBallFoodie]

They're still a good idea as long as they represent a unique transformation. Rose with Goku Black and green for Broly are proof of that.

Using the concept as a measure of power skill is a futile task at this point.

[ABED]

Again, why is Broly's transformation a good idea?

Zamasu's Rose is different. He can control the color. He didn't unlock another transformation.

A good story or thematic reason for another transformation helps but just the number of transformations dilutes the effect.

[Cursed Lemon]

Zamasu's Rose is different. He can control the color. He didn't unlock another transformation.

So it's an actual palette swap and you're saying it's good, but Broly is bad?

[ABED]

Zamasu's Rose is different. He can control the color. He didn't unlock another transformation.

So it's an actual palette swap and you're saying it's good, but Broly is bad?

It wasn't another transformation to unlock another level of absurd power, it was a character who does something as trivial as change the color of his transformation to display his inflated sense of self-worth. It's good visual storytelling.

Broly's aura is just green. So yes, it's better. I don't even know why anyone is singling out Broly's recolor for any reason. Did it really stand out to you all?