Does anyone else feel that much of the DB fandom enforces low standards?

[LoganForkHands73]

Goku and Chi-Chi have a grand total of like...5 conversations in the manga after the 23rd TB. And all but one of them involves Chi-Chi nagging and Goku being all "Aw shucks."

You're right, I was only talking about the Super manga but the original manga doesn't focus on her either after that point. I guess if someone's idea of an amazing character is to barely focus on them at all then Manga Chi-Chi probably passes with flying colours (jokes, jokes).

[ABED]

I really wish we got more of the Chi-Chi from the final arc of Dragon Ball where she's kind of a badass. DBZ had a nasty habit of sidelining the women with babies.

She was always on the sidelines.

They’re probably referring to the filler arc that closes out the OG anime. She has a pretty prominent role there.

The arc where she learns to be a bride and a wife?

They make it sound like she's a tier below Bulma in terms of prominence and then got relegated to the mother role. Fact is she was never in the story very much.

[goku the krump dancer]

That's why Goku didn't recognize her when they met at the 23rd tournament, he saw her twice before then, I'd argue the surprise reveal in the tournament was not only intended for the cast but for us the viewers as well but because we in the west were introduced to the later half of the series where they were already married that element was lost.

She's the main character's wife but she's not a prominent character and DB doesnt do any major "Damsel in Distress" storylines so its just not much for her to do and that's okay.

[jjgp1112]

Even in the manga, because of how little she does much of anything, she doesn't have much of a character besides nagging shrew and overbearing mother. She has one positive interaction with Future Trunks and that's pretty much it.

The problem was the anime made her act like this for basically every single second of screentime she occupied even in spots where she didn't act that way originally (aforementioned Trunks scene in the Android saga)

[super michael]

The Buu Saga has Chi Chi support Goten to train and fight, she didn't have any problems with Gohan joining the tournament. Basically she wasn't a strict character anymore.

As for DBS manga she doesn't appear much, but that is a good thing better to keep her development than make her worse like the anime.

[super michael]

Here is another contradiction the anime does, in DBS Goku has a issue with the idea of teaching and training Uub since he says that he has no idea. That is a contradiction since Goku was a excellent master to Gohan, he taught everything Gohan needed to know get skillful and power.

DBZ Goku knows how to teach and train others.
DBS Goku doesn't know how to train and teach others.

[Matches Malone]

Here is another contradiction the anime does, in DBS Goku has a issue with the idea of teaching and training Uub since he says that he has no idea. That is a contradiction since Goku was a excellent master to Gohan, he taught everything Gohan needed to know get skillful and power.

DBZ Goku knows how to teach and train others.
DBS Goku doesn't know how to train and teach others.

Super has gone out of its way to make Goku seem as incompetent as possible, be it in fights or life outside of fighting.

[super michael]

Here is another contradiction the anime does, in DBS Goku has a issue with the idea of teaching and training Uub since he says that he has no idea. That is a contradiction since Goku was a excellent master to Gohan, he taught everything Gohan needed to know get skillful and power.

DBZ Goku knows how to teach and train others.
DBS Goku doesn't know how to train and teach others.

Super has gone out of its way to make Goku seem as incompetent as possible, be it in fights or life outside of fighting.

Exactly DBS anime always tries everything possible to make Goku look like a talentless brainless person.

[Matches Malone]

Exactly DBS anime always tries everything possible to make Goku look like a talentless brainless person.

I think they're trying to make him more like Luffy from One Piece, the only problem is that even Luffy isn't as badly written as Goku. I'll never understand why they thought they needed to change someone who many considered the face of Shonen. If it's not broken don't fix it.

[Cure Dragon 255]

"Even" Luffy!? I am not saying this because I am a One Piece fan but what a crock of shit. Goku is being dumbed down yes, but it does nNOT MAKE him resemble Luffy at all! Its like someone saw One Piece in passing and assumed Luffy is a dumbass asshole.

[ABED]

Here is another contradiction the anime does, in DBS Goku has a issue with the idea of teaching and training Uub since he says that he has no idea. That is a contradiction since Goku was a excellent master to Gohan, he taught everything Gohan needed to know get skillful and power.

DBZ Goku knows how to teach and train others.
DBS Goku doesn't know how to train and teach others.

Super has gone out of its way to make Goku seem as incompetent as possible, be it in fights or life outside of fighting.

But did he really? Piccolo is the one who taught Gohan how to fight and given how the Cell Games went down, it's not a good reflection on Goku's teaching ability.

[super michael]

Here is another contradiction the anime does, in DBS Goku has a issue with the idea of teaching and training Uub since he says that he has no idea. That is a contradiction since Goku was a excellent master to Gohan, he taught everything Gohan needed to know get skillful and power.

DBZ Goku knows how to teach and train others.
DBS Goku doesn't know how to train and teach others.

Super has gone out of its way to make Goku seem as incompetent as possible, be it in fights or life outside of fighting.

But did he really? Piccolo is the one who taught Gohan how to fight and given how the Cell Games went down, it's not a good reflection on Goku's teaching ability.

Goku taught Gohan the Kamehameha and how to master their Super Saiyan form. Goku even taught Goten and Trunks the fusion.
In EOZ and GT nothing shows that Goku has any problem teaching Uub at all.

Goku learned from all those master that he encountered, that is what makes him a great master.

[LoganForkHands73]

To be fair, he taught Gohan how to perfect Super Saiyan and raised him up to Cell's level, so he's not too bad. He just failed to communicate with Gohan and conflated his own interests with his son's. I like to believe that Goku became disillusioned with training young'uns because both of his sons lacked the killer instinct and desire to grow in strength that he values most.

[ABED]

When did he teach Gohan the Kamehameha? For all we know, Gohan figured it out on his own like everyone else.

He just failed to communicate

Communicating well with students is *checks notes* yep, it's part of the job of a good teacher.

Goku learned from all those master that he encountered, that is what makes him a great master.

That makes him a good martial artist, not a good teacher.

[LoganForkHands73]

When did he teach Gohan the Kamehameha? For all we know, Gohan figured it out on his own like everyone else.

He just failed to communicate

Communicating well with students is *checks notes* yep, it's part of the job of a good teacher.

Goku learned from all those master that he encountered, that is what makes him a great master.

That makes him a good martial artist, not a good teacher.

I agree he failed on one crucial level but Goku's goal with Gohan was primarily to bolster his strength, and he succeeded at that with flying colours.

[ABED]

When did he teach Gohan the Kamehameha? For all we know, Gohan figured it out on his own like everyone else.

He just failed to communicate

Communicating well with students is *checks notes* yep, it's part of the job of a good teacher.

Goku learned from all those master that he encountered, that is what makes him a great master.

That makes him a good martial artist, not a good teacher.

I agree he failed on one crucial level but Goku's goal with Gohan was primarily to bolster his strength, and he succeeded at that with flying colours.

I guess but he really just helped bring out what was already there. Piccolo did the hard work - teaching him control.

[LoganForkHands73]

I guess but he really just helped bring out what was already there. Piccolo did the hard work - teaching him control.

For sure, Piccolo did most of the work with Gohan. He certainly wasn't a hands-off teacher like most mentor figures in the series, he gave Gohan the grilling of a lifetime. However, without Goku's guidance, Gohan wouldn't have been able to reach Super Saiyan at all, or more crucially control it. Nobody else could've nurtured Gohan as successfully in that scenario.

Indeed, I think Goku's acknowledgement that he's not cut out for teaching boils down to a problem he's always had: he doesn't listen. Even many of Roshi's basic teachings flew over his head. I imagine that Goku wouldn't be interested in educating Uub in basic maths or giving him wise martial arts philosophy. He's probably not a great holistic teacher like Roshi but more of a situational instructor.

[ABED]

And that's fair. He's not the worst teacher but he does lack important aspects of being a good one.

[super michael]

When did he teach Gohan the Kamehameha? For all we know, Gohan figured it out on his own like everyone else.

He just failed to communicate

Communicating well with students is *checks notes* yep, it's part of the job of a good teacher.

Goku learned from all those master that he encountered, that is what makes him a great master.

That makes him a good martial artist, not a good teacher.

Before the Cell Game Gohan has never used the Kamehameha before, he only relied on Masenko. There is nothing that implies that Gohan knew how to use the Kamehameha. Gohan then taught Goten how to do the Kamehameha.

Being a master martial artist means that they can teach others how to be great martial artist. Goku would be teaching things that he knows.

[ABED]

Being good at something, even great, doesn't mean you can teach. Teaching is a separate skill

Before the Cell Game Gohan has never used the Kamehameha before, he only relied on Masenko. There is nothing that implies that Gohan knew how to use the Kamehameha. Gohan then taught Goten how to do the Kamehameha.

Unless it's in the show, that's conjecture. Goku wasn't taught the Kamehameha, neither were Kuririn or Yamcha. They figured it out on their own. Also, if Gohan taught Goten the Kamehameha, he would know it wasn't Kamekameha when he used it in the Junior Division.