"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinto]

Heeters buy the planet then re-sell it with profit or with special "privilege". It's easy to find an explanation to fill this gap

[Kinokima]

Heeters buy the planet then re-sell it with profit or with special "privilege". It's easy to find an explanation to fill this gap

Exactly! I would not say the Heeters are necessarily evil but they certainly aren’t altruistic either

The race living on Granolah’s planet had the money to buy a new home but I don’t think the Heeters would just give away a planet out of the Kindness of their heart. They are looking for a profit

While they don’t destroy the population like Freeza did they make money off that destruction just the same and you can even argue that they prey off aliens who need a home. As long as the aliens pay then it’s not problem

But what if they came across an alien race that needed a home that could not pay?

[Brettjr25]

About the guilt of the Saiyan thing. One thing that didn't quite sit well with me is the idea that Vegeta is holding onto some great burden because of the Saiyan's actions, shouldn't he be more concerned with his own? He was ruthless! "The King blah blah blah" this guy out here murdering and beating anything he could find. But I guess it's trying to encompass saiyans because of the whole thing with Granolah.

What's odd though, is that Beerus is telling him not to regret it and that there's nothing wrong with destruction. Even making the point that HE told Freeza to kill them (I still HATE that retcon btw, it cheapens the fear that Freeza was supposed to have of them getting stronger). So does that me that Vegeta under the training of Beerus is going to be on the wrong side of the fight? If Granolah is pissed about them killing his race and Vegeta is like well Beerus told me there was nothing wrong with it and helped me gain greater power... I think we are going to see conflict.

[Kinokima]

About the guilt of the Saiyan thing. One thing that didn't quite sit well with me is the idea that Vegeta is holding onto some great burden because of the Saiyan's actions, shouldn't he be more concerned with his own? He was ruthless! "The King blah blah blah" this guy out here murdering and beating anything he could find. But I guess it's trying to encompass saiyans because of the whole thing with Granolah.

What's odd though, is that Beerus is telling him not to regret it and that there's nothing wrong with destruction. Even making the point that HE told Freeza to kill them (I still HATE that retcon btw, it cheapens the fear that Freeza was supposed to have of them getting stronger). So does that me that Vegeta under the training of Beerus is going to be on the wrong side of the fight? If Granolah is pissed about them killing his race and Vegeta is like well Beerus told me there was nothing wrong with it and helped me gain greater power... I think we are going to see conflict.

That’s not what Beerus is trying to say at all

He is just telling Vegeta he needs to move on from the past. He is also didn’t say Vegeta should ignore his own responsibility but he shouldn’t also carry the burden of his entire race.


As for Granolah I am not sure seeking revenge for its own sake is being on the “right side”.

[Magnificent Ponta]

About the guilt of the Saiyan thing. One thing that didn't quite sit well with me is the idea that Vegeta is holding onto some great burden because of the Saiyan's actions, shouldn't he be more concerned with his own? He was ruthless!

Well, he is concerned about that - this was a pretty prominent aspect of his character arc in the Moro arc. But Beerus says, "Your own crimes aside, you're feeling guilty for the sins of all Saiyans", and he thinks that's an "unnecessary" burden that Vegeta needs to dispense with.

[SupremeKai25]

It's good that Vegeta feels remorse for what his horrible species has done (countless and countless worlds ruined beyond reparation, entire species exterminated), but mere words are meaningless. If Vegeta is serious in his regret, he should strive to use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all those who were slain by the Saiyans.

Let's not forget that Vegeta is also responsible of mundicide. Remember that insectoid world he destroyed at the beginning of Z? The blood of an entire world is on his hands. Remorseful thoughts and words are not enough.

[Kinokima]

It's good that Vegeta feels remorse for what his horrible species has done (countless and countless worlds ruined beyond reparation, entire species exterminated), but mere words are meaningless. If Vegeta is serious in his regret, he should strive to use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all those who were slain by the Saiyans.

Let's not forget that Vegeta is also responsible of mundicide. Remember that insectoid world he destroyed at the beginning of Z? The blood of an entire world is on his hands. Remorseful thoughts and words are not enough.

I highly doubt that type of wish is even possible

And it’s not just words. Vegeta now fights to protect others. He can’t change the past but he can work to better himself for the future

[Jiren The Alpha]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

[Jinto]

Exactly! I would not say the Heeters are necessarily evil but they certainly aren’t altruistic either

The race living on Granolah’s planet had the money to buy a new home but I don’t think the Heeters would just give away a planet out of the Kindness of their heart. They are looking for a profit

While they don’t destroy the population like Freeza did they make money off that destruction just the same and you can even argue that they prey off aliens who need a home. As long as the aliens pay then it’s not problem

But what if they came across an alien race that needed a home that could not pay?

The Heeters is the "everything has a value" king of group, they would trade interesting information, artefact,...
Toyo seems to be improving in structuring his story.

The only problem I have here is that Frieza can, at the very least, casually destroy any celestial body and practice genocide alone, he is a one man army on universal scale which is a bit problematic in a story that seems to push information manipulation, politics, population dynamic, technology,... into its worldbuilding.

[Gogeta_Blue]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

Goku used it in the Moro arc.

Vegeta has Blue Evolution. There's no real reason for him to use Perfected Blue at this point, especially against Beerus.

[Yasai9001]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

Goku used it in the Moro arc.

Vegeta has Blue Evolution. There's no real reason for him to use Perfected Blue at this point, especially against Beerus.

Blue evolution is anime exclusive. Vegeta also uses Perfected Blue against Beerus in chapter 27 of the Dragon Ball Super Manga.

[DiscountDabi]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

Goku used it in the Moro arc.

Vegeta has Blue Evolution. There's no real reason for him to use Perfected Blue at this point, especially against Beerus.

Blue evolution is anime exclusive. Vegeta also uses Perfected Blue against Beerus in chapter 27 of the Dragon Ball Super Manga.

What do you mean its anime exclusive? Its right here.

Spoiler:

The real question is why he didn't use it against Broly

[Gogeta_Blue]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

Goku used it in the Moro arc.

Vegeta has Blue Evolution. There's no real reason for him to use Perfected Blue at this point, especially against Beerus.

Blue evolution is anime exclusive. Vegeta also uses Perfected Blue against Beerus in chapter 27 of the Dragon Ball Super Manga.

He gets Blue Evolution in chapter 40 of the manga and has used it several times since, including against both Beerus and Moro.

Spoiler:

[Lionel]

You know seeing the expansion of the repenter's musing interesting as a unique dynamic to Vegeta's characterisation that helps to add some multi-facetedness to an otherwise dull rival fixture but I wish Toyotaro was more comprehensive in this idea. You have others like Piccolo and Yamcha with similarly checkered backgrounds that are rife with victims but I don't expect anything from that.

I wonder if Goku could relate in any way to the overwhelming passion of vengeance seeking -- his reaction to the loss of Krillin at the hands of Tambourine does bear resemblance to Granolah's ambition. Is there any opening there for character-to-character interaction or is it something Goku's personality wouldn't be inclined to looking back on?

[emperior]

Goku used it in the Moro arc.

Vegeta has Blue Evolution. There's no real reason for him to use Perfected Blue at this point, especially against Beerus.

Blue evolution is anime exclusive. Vegeta also uses Perfected Blue against Beerus in chapter 27 of the Dragon Ball Super Manga.

What do you mean its anime exclusive? Its right here.

Spoiler:

The real question is why he didn't use it against Broly

We got to assume he did in fact use it against Broly, just that in the movie unlike in the colored manga the hair color of the evolved Blue form of Vegeta is the same as normal SSB.

[Brettjr25]

It's good that Vegeta feels remorse for what his horrible species has done (countless and countless worlds ruined beyond reparation, entire species exterminated), but mere words are meaningless. If Vegeta is serious in his regret, he should strive to use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all those who were slain by the Saiyans.

Let's not forget that Vegeta is also responsible of mundicide. Remember that insectoid world he destroyed at the beginning of Z? The blood of an entire world is on his hands. Remorseful thoughts and words are not enough.

Ugh...no offense but I think that's a very dangerous and wrong way to perceive things. Vegeta is only responsible for his own actions and what he did and what he shouldn't of done. No matter how many people of a species/race does something the individual should never be held accountable for it.

[pepd]

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

pSSB is not really a form on itself, but the mastering if the imperfect (consuming) SSB, the perfectioning process fulfilled its role, pSSB is and will be in use every time SSB is used; SSBe would be really "pSSBe". The manga only adopted "SSBE"s name and aura (even if that is all the form is anyways), it still functions as just (p)SSB.

[SupremeKai25]

It's good that Vegeta feels remorse for what his horrible species has done (countless and countless worlds ruined beyond reparation, entire species exterminated), but mere words are meaningless. If Vegeta is serious in his regret, he should strive to use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all those who were slain by the Saiyans.

Let's not forget that Vegeta is also responsible of mundicide. Remember that insectoid world he destroyed at the beginning of Z? The blood of an entire world is on his hands. Remorseful thoughts and words are not enough.

Ugh...no offense but I think that's a very dangerous and wrong way to perceive things. Vegeta is only responsible for his own actions and what he did and what he shouldn't of done. No matter how many people of a species/race does something the individual should never be held accountable for it.

You can't take pride in your species and gloat about being their prince while at the same time avoiding any criticism and accountability for the crimes committed by said species.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Brettjr25]

About the guilt of the Saiyan thing. One thing that didn't quite sit well with me is the idea that Vegeta is holding onto some great burden because of the Saiyan's actions, shouldn't he be more concerned with his own? He was ruthless!

Well, he is concerned about that - this was a pretty prominent aspect of his character arc in the Moro arc. But Beerus says, "Your own crimes aside, you're feeling guilty for the sins of all Saiyans", and he thinks that's an "unnecessary" burden that Vegeta needs to dispense with.

I suppose so.

About the guilt of the Saiyan thing. One thing that didn't quite sit well with me is the idea that Vegeta is holding onto some great burden because of the Saiyan's actions, shouldn't he be more concerned with his own? He was ruthless! "The King blah blah blah" this guy out here murdering and beating anything he could find. But I guess it's trying to encompass saiyans because of the whole thing with Granolah.

What's odd though, is that Beerus is telling him not to regret it and that there's nothing wrong with destruction. Even making the point that HE told Freeza to kill them (I still HATE that retcon btw, it cheapens the fear that Freeza was supposed to have of them getting stronger). So does that me that Vegeta under the training of Beerus is going to be on the wrong side of the fight? If Granolah is pissed about them killing his race and Vegeta is like well Beerus told me there was nothing wrong with it and helped me gain greater power... I think we are going to see conflict.

That’s not what Beerus is trying to say at all

He is just telling Vegeta he needs to move on from the past. He is also didn’t say Vegeta should ignore his own responsibility but he shouldn’t also carry the burden of his entire race.


As for Granolah I am not sure seeking revenge for its own sake is being on the “right side”.

I guess you could interpret it like that but I can't place his actions with what you are saying he is saying. If he was making a point to move on past it then why annihilate a planet to make a point? Why say "oh btw I told Freeza to kill all saiyans". Do you think Beerus is saying that because he moved past those things? IMO it just showed that he had no regret about them, which is why I interpreted what he has said as I did.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I guess you could interpret it like that but I can't place his actions with what you are saying he is saying. If he was making a point to move on past it then why annihilate a planet to make a point? Why say "oh btw I told Freeza to kill all saiyans". Do you think Beerus is saying that because he moved past those things? IMO it just showed that he had no regret about them, which is why I interpreted what he has said as I did.

From what I understood, Beerus was just trying to prove that there is no such thing as "the Saiyans were destined to be destroyed" which was what Vegeta had argued earlier. He thinks that Vegeta should not carry this burden because the actions of the Saiyans have nothing to do / do not determine what Vegeta is today, just as they did not determine their final fate as Vegeta implied.

It looks like Toyo regret making the Perfected Super Saiyan Blue forms because he is not using them.

The Perfected Super Saiyan Blue has become the standard Blue form for Goku and Vegeta since the Zamasu arc. Whenever you see them both using the Blue form without an aura (which has happened in every fight since they mastered that form), it means that they are usin using the PSSB. Vegeta just has a stronger form.