Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

So let’s go with the statement “Everybody is weaker” for simplicity’s sake, okay?

This interpretation misses the point of Goku’s question though. He is not interested in knowing if there is someone at Moro’s level, for example. If you pay attention to the whole conversation, this “everybody is weaker than Vegeta” approach comes off as an oversimplification. Goku is aiming to higher grounds and he knows Vegeta is doing the same thing, he knows Vegeta will surpass Moro and his current level. Goku is only interested to know if there is someone who is already at that level, that’s all. If Vegeta is already stronger than Broly or not, it doesn’t matter, at the end of this arc this probably won’t be doubted.

[GodVegetto91]

In the simplest possible terms,

If X character is stronger than Vegeta but weaker than Goku, then Goku should NOT be using the word “Us” in this case. He should just be using the word “Me” to refer to himself there.

Because “Us” ALWAYS includes Vegeta by definition.

[Jack Bz]

It is a bit of a strange phrasing because Goku is wording the question as if he and Vegeta are even on the same tier when in actual fact he outclasses Vegeta completely for now.

Despite that, I too think that there's a reason Toyo decided to make Goku say "us" and not "me", that being Goku and Vegeta are the two top dogs now in U7. I don't really like Vegeta being stronger than Broly but I think it's the most likely interpretation.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t think the phrasing he uses is really that important if you understand what he is talking about. If anything he makes the question easier for Whis to understand. He probably ranks Vegeta with himself, because he believes Vegeta will get at least this strong.

[Devilman21/]

I interrupted Goku's question as him asking whether or not Whis knew anyone in universe 7 who was stronger than he or Vegeta. The way Goku phrased his question it seemed as if he thought maybe Whis was implying that he knew of someone stronger than them. Whis's replied that he did not which very well could imply that he views Goku and Vegeta as being the two strongest mortals in Uni7.

Where this leaves Broly and Jiren is ambiguous imo. They were explicitly talking about being the strongest in the universe, not the multiverse, and likewise the Oracle Fish's prophesy gave no mention to the wider cosmos beyond Universe 7. Goku himself was directly responding to Whis's statement that the "UNIVERSE is a big place". We also have to keep in mind that all the promotional material specially talked about the balance of power in Universe 7 being shifted (that would include Broly) so It seems logical that Jiren, being from U11, would be excluded from that. As far as Broly goes, Personally I don't have an issue with Goku being stronger than him since he has UI and we know Vegeta got a pretty hefty power boost after his Yardrat training in the Moro arc. It is admittedly weird to see him cast aside so quickly especially after how much hype he received, but that was two arcs by now and we all know how fast the power train goes in DB. You may be the top dog for now but that never lasts for long. The real issue is, as always, Beerus. If we are to accept that Beerus > Vegeta (and Goku) but also that Vegeta/Goku > Broly, then that line about how Broly "might be stronger than Beerus" gets thrown out the window. Which admittedly frustrating but it is what it is. The real test will come when this prophesied "strongest warrior in the universe" shows up and whether that title includes Beerus or not. Only time will tell.

[Thani]

I just think they dropped the ball here. They could have easily played with the idea that Jiren and Broly were incredible exceptions for the usual rule of DB about antagonists - after all, they were hyped as stronger than Gods of Destruction. They could have kept that easily because, frankly, at that point, they were VASTLY stronger than Goku and Vegeta at their best. At that time, after all, Blue was the best they could do.

Creating enemies that were hard for them to beat in Blue was easy, it wouldn't hurt the flow because said enemy was STILL stronger than the main duo. You could have them attune to their higher forms and expand on them, like Sign and Evolution, without needing a massive power up just because they had to challenge the villain. At the very least, an Arc dedicated to them closing the gap between the previously-hyped-as GoD level enemies could have worked really well, before they outright surpassed them. Hell, Moro could have been that. He could easily have been that.

But oh well.

[GodVegetto91]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

[Grand Marshal 1]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

Vegeta may master the technique in this arc. But he will get cocky and he will get pounded by Granola. Unless if they somehow write Goku out of this. Which guess what. It's not gonna be the case.

Vegeta getting purple sounds too bleh to me. I'm bored of new forms. Spirit Fission needed to stay more. Be something more than a plot device against one villain. I was also dissapointed it was the hakai Vegeta would learn and not a new technique but eh.

He is in base form yes, but to pull off anything noteworthy he probably needs perfected blue levels of power, as it has been indicated in the past.

[Thani]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

Vegeta may master the technique in this arc. But he will get cocky and he will get pounded by Granola. Unless if they somehow write Goku out of this. Which guess what. It's not gonna be the case.

Vegeta getting purple sounds too bleh to me. I'm bored of new forms. Spirit Fission needed to stay more. Be something more than a plot device against one villain. I was also dissapointed it was the hakai Vegeta would learn and not a new technique but eh.

He is in base form yes, but to pull off anything noteworthy he probably needs perfected blue levels of power, as it has been indicated in the past.

Honestly, shouldn't Vegeta be unable to use a godly power in base form? I would assume a godly power would require, you know, god power.

But apart from that, it makes no difference which form Vegeta is in. It's a godly technique, it's only requisite is that the user employs god ki in it's usage. If Vegeta can now do that in base, then I don't see a problem.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

Vegeta may master the technique in this arc. But he will get cocky and he will get pounded by Granola. Unless if they somehow write Goku out of this. Which guess what. It's not gonna be the case.

Vegeta getting purple sounds too bleh to me. I'm bored of new forms. Spirit Fission needed to stay more. Be something more than a plot device against one villain. I was also dissapointed it was the hakai Vegeta would learn and not a new technique but eh.

He is in base form yes, but to pull off anything noteworthy he probably needs perfected blue levels of power, as it has been indicated in the past.

Honestly, shouldn't Vegeta be unable to use a godly power in base form? I would assume a godly power would require, you know, god power.

But apart from that, it makes no difference which form Vegeta is in. It's a godly technique, it's only requisite is that the user employs god ki in it's usage. If Vegeta can now do that in base, then I don't see a problem.

Probably. It wouldn't make sense for the godly technique used by gods, in energy of destruction, to be generated from normal ki.

'SaiYaN BeyONd GOd Is BacK'

[Triggered Vegeta]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

I wouldn't mind this Purple God Vegeta tbh, so long as he doesn't get overly bulky. I also wasn't a fan of those symbols on Toppo. I do hope like you said, Vegeta one ups Goku for this arc. At least until Goku begins to unlock the next step to UI.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

I wouldn't mind this Purple God Vegeta tbh, so long as he doesn't get overly bulky. I also wasn't a fan of those symbols on Toppo. I do hope like you said, Vegeta one ups Goku for this arc. At least until Goku begins to unlock the next step to UI.

Speaking of which, I wonder even more about how will the next Level (?), Tier (?), State (?) of MUI will look "different" than the current completed version. With the Moro arc giving powerups that had no visual tell (Goku mastery of movement and usage of UI and Vegeta's improved ki/spirit control and fission abilties) I expect them to go big time with the next level for our heroes and give us that one characteristic which will separate them from the previous iterations.

As for power, things are getting tight. We just got a literal foe who wished to be the strongest. What now right? But ofc that's a topic for another day, plus we gotta see how the arc goes.

Ultimately, will Haku empower Vegeta? Or will it merely add something new to his arsenal?

[GodVegetto91]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

I wouldn't mind this Purple God Vegeta tbh, so long as he doesn't get overly bulky. I also wasn't a fan of those symbols on Toppo. I do hope like you said, Vegeta one ups Goku for this arc. At least until Goku begins to unlock the next step to UI.

Speaking of which, I wonder even more about how will the next Level (?), Tier (?), State (?) of MUI will look "different" than the current completed version. With the Moro arc giving powerups that had no visual tell (Goku mastery of movement and usage of UI and Vegeta's improved ki/spirit control and fission abilties) I expect them to go big time with the next level for our heroes and give us that one characteristic which will separate them from the previous iterations.

As for power, things are getting tight. We just got a literal foe who wished to be the strongest. What now right? But ofc that's a topic for another day, plus we gotta see how the arc goes.

Ultimately, will Haku empower Vegeta? Or will it merely add something new to his arsenal?

I’ve speculated quite a few times earlier in the past that Goku’s next level of UI will have purple eyes and white hair like the Angels.. So that’s what I’m hoping will happen.. And yes.. I DO believe it will empower Vegeta and make him much stronger overall and increase his “power level”..

[GodVegetto91]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

Vegeta may master the technique in this arc. But he will get cocky and he will get pounded by Granola. Unless if they somehow write Goku out of this. Which guess what. It's not gonna be the case.

Vegeta getting purple sounds too bleh to me. I'm bored of new forms. Spirit Fission needed to stay more. Be something more than a plot device against one villain. I was also dissapointed it was the hakai Vegeta would learn and not a new technique but eh.

He is in base form yes, but to pull off anything noteworthy he probably needs perfected blue levels of power, as it has been indicated in the past.

Honestly, shouldn't Vegeta be unable to use a godly power in base form? I would assume a godly power would require, you know, god power.

But apart from that, it makes no difference which form Vegeta is in. It's a godly technique, it's only requisite is that the user employs god ki in it's usage. If Vegeta can now do that in base, then I don't see a problem.

I mean.. Given that Hakai is a state of mind.. (And nothing more), I don’t see the need for ANY transformation... So Godly Ki should be automatically acquired when accessing that mental state (where you think of nothing but destruction.)

That said, I do expect (and WANT) to see a new transformation out of this. Because him walking around in Base all day is just super boring (and I hate all his already existing transformations.. Especially Blue Evo!) So I think a new Purple haired GoD Mode seems perfectly appropriate! If even just to increase merchandise sales xD lmao

I know many fans don’t like transformations, but I DO.. I think it makes things more interesting and it’s much easier to comprehend that a new level of power has been achieved, as it’s a visual signifier of it ofcourse!

[Triggered Vegeta]

Above all.. I’m just really excited and curious to see what will happen with Vegeta’s power and abilities going forward. I have no doubt in my mind that he will at least surpass UI Goku in this Arc (if even for a moment!) But that aside, I didn’t neccesarily want to talk about that..

What I wanted to bring to the table here, is a new discussion, regarding the nature of Vegeta’s new “Hakai power”...

It seems.. (judging from what absolute little was shown in the draft pages), that Vegeta can utilize the Hakai technique while in BASE form..

(As he managed to just utilize it on a very small piece of rock on his finger...)

This is a certainly an interesting and thought/discussion provoking development.. Just like the God of Destruction, Beerus, who seems to be always in his Base form.. Vegeta managed to perform the same feat while in Base too.. (I think this means he will no longer have any need for his SSJ1-2-God-Blue-Evo transformations, but will instead opt to go for a Purple haired/Purple aura’d “God of Destruction Mode” like Toppo had in the Anime.. Where he basically goes “Full Hakai” Mode..)

Anyways.. That’s what I’m speculating and hoping for now!

What do you guys think???

I wouldn't mind this Purple God Vegeta tbh, so long as he doesn't get overly bulky. I also wasn't a fan of those symbols on Toppo. I do hope like you said, Vegeta one ups Goku for this arc. At least until Goku begins to unlock the next step to UI.

Speaking of which, I wonder even more about how will the next Level (?), Tier (?), State (?) of MUI will look "different" than the current completed version. With the Moro arc giving powerups that had no visual tell (Goku mastery of movement and usage of UI and Vegeta's improved ki/spirit control and fission abilties) I expect them to go big time with the next level for our heroes and give us that one characteristic which will separate them from the previous iterations.

As for power, things are getting tight. We just got a literal foe who wished to be the strongest. What now right? But ofc that's a topic for another day, plus we gotta see how the arc goes.

Ultimately, will Haku empower Vegeta? Or will it merely add something new to his arsenal?

Maybe Goku's eyes will begin to change. Notice Whis and the rest of the angels have purple eyes. As for Vegeta, I do believe his power will spike tremendously as well as add it to his bag of tricks. I hope Hakai energy replaces the energy he currently wields or at least be a different pool of energy he can tap into, that's just me.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think or want Goku to have a different look if he reaches a new level of UI. I'd rather have it as it is, just improving his usage of the technique, giving the "form" some sort of definitive persona. I guess they might start messing with his hair, if they choose to modify his appearence, with spikey hair or removing the bangs. My issue being that it'd be like opening a can of worms... in no time we'd be getting white-haired versions of SS100 representing Goku reaching the highest UI level.

I think Vegeta will get stronger after learning to use hakai while adding another tool to his belt. I believe learning to mold ki or energy and use it in such a destructive way should improve his overall ki. His improved spirit control might get a kick out of learning hakai, perhaps that'll be the key to mastering it, or the other way around and learning hakai hones his spirit even more.
I'm not interested in a another new form, I'd like for all of this to make it easier for Vegeta to access his ikari state, gaining power in a more saiyan way.

And while I do feel sort of bad for Broly getting the axe, Vegeta should be at the very least closing in on that level of power, so I'm not against the idea. What irks me the most is the sloppy way it seems to be presented, not so much what's being presented. If in a few months they were to decide Vegeta is still behind Broly, overriding the panel we've been discussing lately, shouldn't be much of a problem.

I also can't understand what was the point in, post-fight, giving Broly the props only to render that scene utterly meaningless, when the stronger Vegeta was humilliated with power that didn't seem that deeply hidden for Goku to not see by the time he made the comparison.
He was waaaaaaay off, I guess we all probably knew he'd end up being wrong in a later retcon, but probably not by that margin. Like thinking Hit could've taken Jiren.

[Hugo Boss]

I think a new transformation is almost a given to Vegeta. It will sell better the idea that he is as strong as Goku, at least. For Goku, I think he needs his Nyoibō back.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Real question here is tho: Freeza has been mentioned before as one of the top dogs. It's true, he is blue tier with True Golden and Vegeta hinted at an improved, possibly with new form, Freeza in Broly. Right now, he is outclassed. Hell, he has been outclassed since the ToP. Do you believe that Granolah will provide the buildup for a new form for Freeza, or will they deal with him differently? How would that affect the power scale, if Freeza gained Beyond Blue/GoD tier levels of power?

[Thani]

I would personally just give his Golden form an upgrade, just like with "True Golden". Maybe he manages to use god ki, which increases his overall power, idk.

[GodVegetto91]

Ryokutya Chapter 70 impressions

!?
Easy. That's fine (sweat)
It's amazing, Axolotl

The explanation for the number one in the universe is interesting.
That's right
I lost rags

Vegeta, you're in the realm of the god of destruction if it's a super close combat, right? lol

Pretty interesting talk about Vegeta there..

As for those who are wondering what an Axolotl is.. They are referring to THESE real life creatures on which the Sugarian people of Planet Cereal are based!