"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:40 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:27 pm Well, I was expecting a sort of training period with the three focus characters, but the story went the totally opposite direction. I am a tad bewildered at Granola's long hair, though; is it supposed to indicate his increase in power or a passage of time?
I am not upset, though, at least we get to see the Heeter's true colours. I am counting on the moment Granola finds out about the Heeters, um
Also, Granola's fight with Oil and Macki was pretty good. Nice to see it was not entirely punches and kicks.
I hope that Monaito will be relevant in the story again, and not just a plot device.
I will admit, I smirked a bit when Vegeta Hakai'd that stone. Classic Saiyan mimicry...
Finally, while it is unlikely for Goku and Vegeta to fight Granola together, I would assume that Elec's plan would still be successful if the two of them take turns.
I kinda expect for Monaito to return during the climax of the arc. As in when Granolah realizes that fighting Goku and Vegeta is pointless for everyone, but in order for elec's plan to succeed, he goes on Cereal and holds Monaito (and maybe all the sugarians) hostage, prompting Granolah to defeat Freeza or do something to succumb to their orders.

Seeing how Elec doesn't want Granolah to take Freeza's place (but I also doubt he would reach to Freeza about Granolah) this sounds plausible for now. Not sure how effective hostages would be against Granolah though.

I also expect 7-3 to become relevant. If Elec doesn't resort to the dragon balls himself (another plot point that could force Monaito's inclusion), maybe the data within the android from Moro will be the key for Elec to take the situation in his hands and deal with Granolah once Freeza is out of the picture. Can't wait!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:45 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:40 pm I kinda expect for Monaito to return during the climax of the arc. As in when Granolah realizes that fighting Goku and Vegeta is pointless for everyone, but in order for elec's plan to succeed, he goes on Cereal and holds Monaito (and maybe all the sugarians) hostage, prompting Granolah to defeat Freeza or do something to succumb to their orders.

Seeing how Elec doesn't want Granolah to take Freeza's place (but I also doubt he would reach to Freeza about Granolah) this sounds plausible for now. Not sure how effective hostages would be against Granolah though.
That is an interesting prediction, something that I can see the Heeters very well pull off. One of my personal predictions is that Monaito is going to die prematurely one way or another and render the Sugarian dragon balls inert, but I guess we will see.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:48 pm

Xeogran wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:59 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:09 pm The point is of this chapter is, that Vegeta is doing the right thing here, he is doing the slow, but effective, training, step by step.

Granola is doing the wrong thing, he did not train for his power.

There's a clear parallel between Vegeta and Granola here, Vegeta destroying a pebble and then Granola destroying a giant rock is an example of this... There's room for vegeta to grow, on the other hand Granolla is at his peak.

Beerus told Vegeta to move on from the past, otherwise he won't grow stronger, this will be Granola's downfall, he won't be able to grow stronger because he can't forget the past.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:50 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:45 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:40 pm I kinda expect for Monaito to return during the climax of the arc. As in when Granolah realizes that fighting Goku and Vegeta is pointless for everyone, but in order for elec's plan to succeed, he goes on Cereal and holds Monaito (and maybe all the sugarians) hostage, prompting Granolah to defeat Freeza or do something to succumb to their orders.

Seeing how Elec doesn't want Granolah to take Freeza's place (but I also doubt he would reach to Freeza about Granolah) this sounds plausible for now. Not sure how effective hostages would be against Granolah though.
That is an interesting prediction, something that I can see the Heeters very well pull off. One of my personal predictions is that Monaito is going to die prematurely one way or another and render the Sugarian dragon balls inert, but I guess we will see.
That works actually. Somehow giving away his life force and perishing to make the DBs unusable by Elec. Essentially sacrificing himself, to aid Granolah in his few years left to live with completing his goal. That would probably enrage him, but would give Granolah the advantage to rush to Cereal, deal with Elec and save the sugarians. High chance for Freeza to be left intact if the Heeters end up being the final bosses (which they will probably be).
Last edited by Grand Marshal 1 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:54 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:18 pm It's interesting to see that the dragon pretty much gave Granola the most relevant techniques available: hakai and UI. Although Granola having UI is not yet proven, seems logical enough. Maybe he is one level above Goku in the UI department.
It seems the goal here is to have Goku and Vegeta fight both of their techniques at the same time.

I'm expecting Granola to not let Elec run the show.

The arc is moving pretty fast, we already have the prophecy fulfilled, Granola is in a rush and should meet the saiyans fairly soon. Perhaps, Elec will tell him that the saiyans know where Freeza is, and even though he might not want to fight them, Goku will definitely try to fight him.
This is literally the worst theory I have read so far. And it’s 100% certainly false.

For starters,

UI and Hakai are totally opposite states and cannot even be combined!

Secondly, why would he even NEED UI??? With this much power, he doesn’t need it at all, just like Jiren and Broly didn’t need it. It goes against their nature. They are “powerhouses” by definition. And Granolah is no different. He’s even far more of a powerhouse than them. Considering he “wished” to get the highest powerlevel in Universe 7. He now has the highest amount of ki, which should naturally increase his SPEED to that level aswell! He didn’t get physically bigger either, so there is nothing slowing down his speed!
Last edited by GodVegetto91 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:55 pm

It's getting interesting (I still don't like that new Namekian lore about Dragon Balls) but the more and more I'm getting into this story, the more I'm disappointed that it's resolving around Goku and Vegeta. Again. I'm seriously bored of these two.
Dragon still looks cool.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MatureGambino » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:24 pm

Trouser wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:55 pm It's getting interesting (I still don't like that new Namekian lore about Dragon Balls) but the more and more I'm getting into this story, the more I'm disappointed that it's resolving around Goku and Vegeta. Again. I'm seriously bored of these two.
Dragon still looks cool.
I've been suffering from Goku & Vegeta fatigue for years now.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:45 pm

MatureGambino wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:24 pm
Trouser wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:55 pm It's getting interesting (I still don't like that new Namekian lore about Dragon Balls) but the more and more I'm getting into this story, the more I'm disappointed that it's resolving around Goku and Vegeta. Again. I'm seriously bored of these two.
Dragon still looks cool.
I've been suffering from Goku & Vegeta fatigue for years now.
At least the chapter is mainly about Granolah. But you're right, the goku and vegeta duo being stuffed in our faces for years as the main protagonists does get tiring, especially after so many years. It's like they're hesitant to try something new.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:49 pm

omaro34 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:45 pm
MatureGambino wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:24 pm
Trouser wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:55 pm It's getting interesting (I still don't like that new Namekian lore about Dragon Balls) but the more and more I'm getting into this story, the more I'm disappointed that it's resolving around Goku and Vegeta. Again. I'm seriously bored of these two.
Dragon still looks cool.
I've been suffering from Goku & Vegeta fatigue for years now.
At least the chapter is mainly about Granolah. But you're right, the goku and vegeta duo being stuffed in our faces for years as the main protagonists does get tiring, especially after so many years. It's like they're hesitant to try something new.
This thread will tell you everything you need to know on why they won't try anything new aside from Goku & Vegeta viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46047

Toei/Shuiesha arent totally to blame Most of the fandom doesnt believe others such as Uub,pan,etc can carry the series & dont want to even try to give others a chance.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:56 pm

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:49 pm
omaro34 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:45 pm
MatureGambino wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:24 pm
I've been suffering from Goku & Vegeta fatigue for years now.
At least the chapter is mainly about Granolah. But you're right, the goku and vegeta duo being stuffed in our faces for years as the main protagonists does get tiring, especially after so many years. It's like they're hesitant to try something new.
This thread will tell you everything you need to know on why they won't try anything new aside from Goku & Vegeta viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46047

Toei/Shuiesha arent totally to blame Most of the fandom doesnt believe others such as Uub,pan,etc can carry the series & dont want to even try to give others a chance.
I'm not saying get rid of Goku as the main protagonist, because I know that will never happen. But Vegeta and Goku being tied to a hip as a duo is what's tiring.

I was also hoping for a time skip when this Granolah arc started, but we seem to be stuck in this ten year time period which is going for such an unnecessarily long time, it takes away all the tension because we know the gang is fine during the 28th tournament. Its disappointing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:08 pm

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 70:

- I knew it was too good to be true when Granola wished to be the strongest warrior in the universe. Damn wish granting dragon genies and their rules and limitations...

- I really the subtle gross of Vegeta attaining Godly power like Beerus (i.e. Hakai). What I enjoy more than anything is that it seems Toyotaro is taking his time with this and starting from small point really. Part of the charm of previous Dragon Ball training arcs is that was a sense of progressing from small to large gain in organic fashion. And part of the reason I've not been a fan of training arcs after Freeza arc, and especially in the BOG/ROF/Super, is that there would always got straight into making insane gains in record time, and it just didn't feel organic. It's nice to see Dragon Ball Super (seemingly) taking it slow now.

- Huh. I guess Granola's latent power was ro make him a SSJ3.

- Oh, it's so obvious that Toyotaro is planning to take Granola down the "drunk with power" route. It's been done to death in Dragon Ball, but I feel having Granola going up against Vegeta in this hypothetical scenario could serve a really interesting parallel and could provide some unique development and commentary.

- Fantastic panelling and choreography of the battle between Granola and Oil. Made Granola's sudden increase in strength and ability all the more visually striking.

- Great reveal with the Granola shorting his life span for power. It further emphasises just how desperate he is to kill Freeza that he's more than will to practically throw his life away for just the chance of revenge.

- Elec is really shaping up to being the chessmaster of this arc and I'm loving it so much. This level of planning, cunning and forward thinking really isn't seen much in Dragon Ball, and I'm glad it's happening now. Now anytime Granola fighting Goku and Vegeta it will always feel organic. Great storytelling.

Overall thoughts... I haven't felt this invested in what's going in an arc in Dragon Ball in YEARS. Multiple intriguing storylines which one way or another link with each other, how can you not love it?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:10 pm

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:32 pm If all of this is building up for Goku to beat Granolah even with these clear Vegeta Parralells (Much more than there was in the Moro Arc) then I will be done.

You have my Attention Toyotaro/Toriyama.

Don’t mess it up
I believe there will be some kind of payoff for the path that Vegeta chose, his conflicts and his involvement with Granolah, just like it happened in the Moro arc (when he brought all the Namekians back to life), but I don't think he will end up defeating the antagonist of the story. Honestly I just hope it is a good development

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:28 pm

-Chapter 70-

Getting stronger through the condition of put one's life on the line reminds me of Hunter x Hunter (Kurapika and Gon).

The wish was granted but it's not as bad as it seems. Sure it's a shortcut, but all the power Granolah got is something he would eventually have in the future. Toronbo just accelerated his growth and the longer hair serves to tell the viewer that he has aged. Being related to his potential solves the problem of this wish being accessible to someone like Pilaf or Satan. It wouldn't do much for them.

The condition sucks though. 3 years gives him a lot of time to wreak havoc and since death doesn't mean much in this franchise, he may still be revived later. The dragon balls shouldnt't be able to revive someone who dies from a natural cause, but since he didn't age in a normal way... Anyway if Toriyama/Toyotaro want Granolah alive aftewards they will just find a way. :roll:

Loved the explanation about what makes Hakai different from a normal ki blast.

Heeter's characterization has been great. A group of villains chilling and eating together isn't something we see often in this franchise. They also seem to care for each other.

The idea that 3 destinies will clash is like DBS Broly. Let's see how this revenge story will unfold.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:53 pm

I did not expect the Dragon to concede the wish and I'm still not sure if I like that it did.

If I'm interpreting the wording correctly, it was only possible due to the lifespan of Granolah and his own potential. Meaning if Yamcha, for example, asked the same wish it couldn't be granted.
If this is the case then I don't mind that much since the story tries not to cheapen it.

I also wonder how literally the Dragon took the wish. He still has 3 years left, which means he could have gone further. He's probably stronger than Goku and Vegeta but not by ridiculous amounts.

Somehow he appears to have Hakai... Could the Dragon have used the current strongest person(s) own aptitudes as example to turn someone into the "strongest in the Universe"? It would explain Hakai, which seems to be at least a level above Vegeta's own. Could he have a better Final Flash and a better UI as well?

The Heaters continue to be interesting, I hope they get further development and also can show off in battle.

The chapter ended with a very direct cliffhanger, the classic Goku/Vegeta getting their ass handed by the villain in the first round.
I hope this isn't the case.

I hope Granolah doesn't go all in on the Saiyans, he's after Freeza after all. A little scuffle for fun but no more.

With the insistence on not naming the "Strongest in the Universe" there's a chance for a surprise. What if Freeza gets a hold of OG-73 and makes the Strongest in Universe and that's who the Oracle fish is talking about?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:03 pm

Love all the interactions with Goku/Vegeta/Beerus/Whis/Oracle Fish. Fun stuff.

Obviously Granolla's hair resembles Super Saiyan 3, but I wonder if it's meant to be an insight into the nature of Super Saiyan 3. It's a power that Goku was only able to learn in the afterlife where you don't have limits on life-force and ki.

In addition to raw power, Granolla seems to have gained certain abilities of those he's surpassed. So far we've seen flight, ki sense, both versions of Hakai, and possibly Migatte no Gokui.

Some fans seem to feel that Granolla's powerup is cheap. It is! That's the point. The characters point it out, and you're meant to feel it. We've had plenty of traning scenes in the DBS manga recently, including in this arc and chapter, so it's fine that Granolla gets his power this way. It's something different, and I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

Does it break the universe? No. Other characters prioritized wishing for immortality because they already felt they were the strongest. Toronbo didn't simply give power that surpassed his creator, but used the power within Granolla. That power surpassed Granolla's potential, but it still came from his lifeforce. The tradeoff of lifeforce makes up for it, and does so even more due to the Cerelian 200 year lifespan.

Really enjoyed the exchange between Strongest Human Granolla and Monaito. It's a bit reminiscent of Gowasu/Zamasu, but Granolla isn't as sinister, and Monaito just wants his friend to find inner peace. Some fans seem to have interpreted "I've upended his life once again..." to mean Monaito has screwed him over before, but I'm pretty sure he's just talking about the original Freeza Force invasion. I suppose that could change, but I don't think anything else is meant by it.

Perhaps Granolla will become drunk with power, but right now, I'm pleasantly surprised by his attitude. He disregards the advice of Monaito, but he isn't unnecessarily hurtful. He isn't unnecessarily rough with the Heeters. While that wasn't he highest-stake, highest-power battle of Super, it showcased Granolla's attitude in this, and the fights were interestingly tactical. I can't help but feel that Maki getting tied up was a drop of fanservice...

I'm really enjoying Elec. He brings such a refreshing dynamic to this. The existence of Heeta along Freeza, and the fact that we haven't heard of them until now, feels totally organic. Some fans are wondering how Seven-three will come into play here...but he's already very heavily in play. The Heeta's moves are dictated by his intel, and it's significant. Maybe he'll come back to fight, but even if he doesn't, he's served his purpose.

I'm not sure what to think about Gas. I mean, I like him, but he's a bit more coy and mysterious than I was expecting. The fact that Elec called him back indicates he might still have something to show us, but surely he couldn't be competitive with Goku & co. At most, perhaps Gas could be competitive with Freeza (back in the day), but based on the style of Heeta (scheming businessmen rather than violent dictators), he hasn't stood out. I guess we'll see!

Only one line from Oatmil this chapter, and it plays along with my conspiracy theory...

Rocks go boom. Granolla's rock boom is bigger than Vegeta's. Monaito trips over a rock. Stubborn as a rock? Rock the Dragon? Rocks...

Some great art in this chapter. I'd like to point out the panel where Oil falls into the hole, but the impression of his eyes is shown above him. Interesting and effective way to show animation in a still image. I'm a big fan of the last page, as well.

Monaito says "You may be the strongest today, but you don't know who or what tomorrow will bring!" Maybe he's right, but maybe he's not. As the Saiyans improve in the heat of battle, perhaps Granolla will continue to be boosted as well, and thus his lifeforce will continue to diminish. If Broly got brought into the picture, based on that, he'd be in trouble.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:07 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:10 pm
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:32 pm If all of this is building up for Goku to beat Granolah even with these clear Vegeta Parralells (Much more than there was in the Moro Arc) then I will be done.

You have my Attention Toyotaro/Toriyama.

Don’t mess it up
I believe there will be some kind of payoff for the path that Vegeta chose, his conflicts and his involvement with Granolah, just like it happened in the Moro arc (when he brought all the Namekians back to life), but I don't think he will end up defeating the antagonist of the story. Honestly I just hope it is a good development
This! That’s really all we can hope for as a Vegeta fan. I don’t need him to beat a main villain, I just want some good development & growth for his character

I also don’t want any fake build up making you think he has a chance just to have that build up be over in half a chapter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:32 pm

Everybody in the thread talkin' bout this and that, which is cool and all, but I really want to know what the hell did Monaito mean when he upended Granolah's life; makes me think what the old fart could have possibly done back then that messed with Granolah's life. I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if Monaito inadvertently contributed to the genocide of the Cerealians. Maybe he did something or made some deal that he didn't think would backfire. I don't know, but it's very interesting to me above all else that's going on at the moment.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:39 pm

Yasai9001 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:32 pm Everybody in the thread talkin' bout this and that, which is cool and all, but I really want to know what the hell did Monaito mean when he upended Granolah's life; makes me think what the old fart could have possibly done back then that messed with Granolah's life. I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if Monaito inadvertently contributed to the genocide of the Cerealians. Maybe he did something or made some deal that he didn't think would backfire. I don't know, but it's very interesting to me above all else that's going on at the moment.
I addressed it above. I think it's just the translation/wording. His life was upended when his race was exterminated, and it has been upended again due to the Dragon Balls created by Monaito. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Monaito seems like a straight-forwardly good, peaceful person. The only thing I can think of that might indicate otherwise is that he seems to be the only Namekian that survived Freeza's invasion. However, since he is the creator of the Dragon Balls, other Namekians would've likely prioritized saving him, and it's possible others have died for other reasons since. Perhaps the Namekian from Jaco the Galactic Patrolman could've been from Cereal.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:20 pm

I think this Chapter opens up some really intriguing possibilities.

I guess I'm most struck by the looming possibility that Granolah isn't going to the the 'Strongest in the Universe' referred to by the Oracle Fish, but rather that this might, in fact, end up being Gas. Monaito makes a big deal out of the idea that Granolah could be the strongest today, and surpassed tomorrow, and Oracle Fish remains extremely cagey as to who will be the strongest warrior that will shift the balance of Universe 7. It's indicated that this is Granolah at this moment, but Whis's statement - that it will 'cause turmoil' - seems both to be an expression of reservation with respect to Granolah and his power (since his own attitude towards it, as batistabus points out, has a pretty level character and limited scope right now) and more significant when considering the lengths others will go to in order to leapfrog Granolah as a result.

A great deal of fuss was made in Chapter 68 as to how bad it'd be for the Heeters if Granolah became stronger than Gas (and how inconceivable that would be, given Gas's allegedly extreme power despite being the youngest member of the family), and Elec specifically waves him off from fighting Granolah now. Given that the Heeters talk around their plans now - they want to become the Big Bosses and control Freeza's army, which plan Granolah's power now threatens. And their awareness of the Dragon Balls and their significance has grown over the last couple of Chapters, and right now Granolah saunters in and reveals that they can just make you the strongest being around - for a price. Gas was stronger to begin with, and presumably has the youth and potential to meet the 'condition' just as well as, or even better than, Granolah.

I can especially see the story going in this direction if Granolah manhandles Goku and Vegeta and the Heeters feel backed into a corner because he's now an imminent and unopposable threat to them. What's stopping the Heeters, in such a scenario, from using OG73-I's data to pay a visit to Earth (or else they could wait a while and go to Cereal), or find Zuno like they wanted and find out about the Super Dragon Balls and where they are (how many questions d'you think he'll allow Maki? I'm willing to guess the answer would be 'several'), and then to wish for Gas to become the strongest in the Universe? Then they'd be able to act on their desires, and the balance of Universe 7 really would be shifted. Granolah's wish wouldn't just be a Faustian Bargain for himself, but a Pandora's Box for the Universe.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:29 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:20 pm or find Zuno like they wanted and find out about the Super Dragon Balls and where they are (how many questions d'you think he'll allow Maki? I'm willing to guess the answer would be 'several')
Really good point.... :lol:

Even if the Super DBs are beyond Heeta's capability of collecting, there are a lot of Dragon Balls out there.

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