Can DB Ever Move Past Goku?

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

That Cheers and Frasier comparison is very apt.

It’s only apt if you’re requesting for a spin off.

Would you like to see a Jaco series? Or a Pride Troopers series? Or a Satan High School series that focuses on teenage Gohan, Videl, Sharpner, Erasa and others?

There’s quite a difference between wanting to see a spin off and wanting Dragon Ball to suddenly switch focus to Gohan or another non-Goku character.

I only wanted what Toriyama was writing there. But that ship has sailed. You seem to think I still want Gohan to lead at this point. My love for this series hit a dramatic low with Buu saga and never quite recovered in the same sense. Still a huge fan but I've long accepted Gohan's fate. Stuff in Super with his character didn't get any emotional reaction out of me because it was to be expected. Though Gohan vs Frieza is pretty cringey, but I digress.

As for spinoff... Yes. I would like that. Absolutely. And preferably a female lead to really spice things up. I want something completely new at this point but I'll settle for most things that are not just Goku 2.0.

[Koitsukai]

That Cheers and Frasier comparison is very apt.

It’s only apt if you’re requesting for a spin off.

Would you like to see a Jaco series? Or a Pride Troopers series? Or a Satan High School series that focuses on teenage Gohan, Videl, Sharpner, Erasa and others?

There’s quite a difference between wanting to see a spin off and wanting Dragon Ball to suddenly switch focus to Gohan or another non-Goku character.

Wouldn't a The Office comparison be ideal for this scenario? or maybe TWD

[jjgp1112]

That Cheers and Frasier comparison is very apt.

It’s only apt if you’re requesting for a spin off.

Would you like to see a Jaco series? Or a Pride Troopers series? Or a Satan High School series that focuses on teenage Gohan, Videl, Sharpner, Erasa and others?

There’s quite a difference between wanting to see a spin off and wanting Dragon Ball to suddenly switch focus to Gohan or another non-Goku character.

Wouldn't a The Office comparison be ideal for this scenario? or maybe TWD

Yeah. The Office, That 70s Show, Scrubs, an a few others I can't think of.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... sonCasting

The main character getting phased out of a show or disappearing altogether is like one of the most premier "Jump the shark" triggers. Hell, wouldn't doubt that also played a role in Toriyama changing his mind.

The premise of this thread is about shifting the Dragon Ball story to somebody else. That's not happening. A spin-off is what the loudest voices in this thread should be really looking for - but a spinoff isn't the main story.

[Kinokima]

If we are speaking spin offs I’d love a full Dragon Ball slice of life series. But I would still want Goku & Vegeta to be part of it. I would just want them to switch around to every character in their daily lives.

[MasenkoHA]

Also usually when a show keeps going without its main character it’s because the lead actor wants out but the studio wants to keep the show going. It’s rarely, if ever, some spark of creativity to keep things fresh.

[MyVisionity]

The main character getting phased out of a show or disappearing altogether is like one of the most premier "Jump the shark" triggers. Hell, wouldn't doubt that also played a role in Toriyama changing his mind.

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

[Kinokima]

The main character getting phased out of a show or disappearing altogether is like one of the most premier "Jump the shark" triggers. Hell, wouldn't doubt that also played a role in Toriyama changing his mind.

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

Goku is the face of Dragon Ball and despite what some people may think he is hugely popular. It would be a bit strange to replace him now.

Dragon Ball doesn’t need new life in a new character. It’s doing more than fine with Goku as the lead.

[MyVisionity]

The main character getting phased out of a show or disappearing altogether is like one of the most premier "Jump the shark" triggers. Hell, wouldn't doubt that also played a role in Toriyama changing his mind.

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

Goku is the face of Dragon Ball and despite what some people may think he is hugely popular. It would be a bit strange to replace him now.

Dragon Ball doesn’t need new life in a new character. It’s doing more than fine with Goku as the lead.

"Strange" doesn't equal "bad".

Doing more than fine with Goku is okay but what if it could do even better with someone else? No one would know until they tried.

[Kinokima]

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

Goku is the face of Dragon Ball and despite what some people may think he is hugely popular. It would be a bit strange to replace him now.

Dragon Ball doesn’t need new life in a new character. It’s doing more than fine with Goku as the lead.

"Strange" doesn't equal "bad".

Doing more than fine with Goku is okay but what if it could do even better with someone else? No one would know until they tried.

And different doesn’t mean good either.

Dragon Ball would not be Dragon Ball without Goku. Even when he is not there he is there in spirit pushing the narrative.


If people want a series without Goku there are tons of different series you can choose from that were inspired by Dragon Ball. I don’t see the need to make Dragon Ball something it’s not.

[jjgp1112]

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

Goku is the face of Dragon Ball and despite what some people may think he is hugely popular. It would be a bit strange to replace him now.

Dragon Ball doesn’t need new life in a new character. It’s doing more than fine with Goku as the lead.

"Strange" doesn't equal "bad".

Doing more than fine with Goku is okay but what if it could do even better with someone else? No one would know until they tried.

As i inevitably end up saying in all these dang discussions, they'd be better off...just making their own original show.

Dragon Ball is just fine being what the hell it is. I have a strong feeling the real problem is us and our inability to move on from a children's cartoon and being jaded from years of talking about the same thing.

[MyVisionity]

Dragon Ball would not be Dragon Ball without Goku. Even when he is not there he is there in spirit pushing the narrative.

Well maybe that's the answer then. Move on from Goku but keep his spirit alive in the narrative.

[Lord Beerus]

Dragon Ball would not be Dragon Ball without Goku. Even when he is not there he is there in spirit pushing the narrative.

Well maybe that's the answer then. Move on from Goku but keep his spirit alive in the narrative.

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

In the case of Dragon Ball, some of the best material to come out of the franchise barely has Goku in it. The Bardock TV special and the Future Trunks TV special stand as some of the best stories to ever come out of Dragon Ball. And they have nothing to do with Goku beyond glorified camoes.

[Kinokima]

Dragon Ball would not be Dragon Ball without Goku. Even when he is not there he is there in spirit pushing the narrative.

Well maybe that's the answer then. Move on from Goku but keep his spirit alive in the narrative.

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

In the case of Dragon Ball, some of the best material to come out of the franchise barely has Goku in it. The Bardock TV special and the Future Trunks TV special stand as some of the best stories to ever come out of Dragon Ball. And they have nothing to do with Goku beyond glorified camoes.

I mean sure I don’t think Goku has to be there every second of the story. I think it’s okay to have him be off screen for a time But I also don’t think Dragon Ball needs to continue without Goku to breathe new life into it. Goku is such an integral part of Dragon Ball

In other series the main character may not be as integral to the story as Goku is.


And Future Trunks and Bardock Special are literally two short specials. They are not an entire series without Goku.

[jjgp1112]

Dragon Ball would not be Dragon Ball without Goku. Even when he is not there he is there in spirit pushing the narrative.

Well maybe that's the answer then. Move on from Goku but keep his spirit alive in the narrative.

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

In the case of Dragon Ball, some of the best material to come out of the franchise barely has Goku in it. The Bardock TV special and the Future Trunks TV special stand as some of the best stories to ever come out of Dragon Ball. And they have nothing to do with Goku beyond glorified camoes.

But they still ostensibly tie back to Goku. Why does this still keep being brought up? Both specials treat Goku as a light at the end of the tunnel, and in the History of Trunks, Goku's absence is a key factor in things being so fucked up. It's the grim conclusion of the "If only Goku were here" trope. He still hangs over both specials.

And as Kinokima said, they're specialls. They're ancillary material still anchored by the main story.

[MyVisionity]

Well maybe that's the answer then. Move on from Goku but keep his spirit alive in the narrative.

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

In the case of Dragon Ball, some of the best material to come out of the franchise barely has Goku in it. The Bardock TV special and the Future Trunks TV special stand as some of the best stories to ever come out of Dragon Ball. And they have nothing to do with Goku beyond glorified camoes.

But they still ostensibly tie back to Goku. Why does this still keep being brought up? Both specials treat Goku as a light at the end of the tunnel, and in the History of Trunks, Goku's absence is a key factor in things being so fucked up. It's the grim conclusion of the "If only Goku were here" trope. He still hangs over both specials.

And they are examples of how you can keep Goku's spirit alive in the narrative without him even being there. The main story could potentially go the same route.

[Koitsukai]

Also, one story was a prequel of Goku's life and how it came to be what it is, with a badass Goku as a protagonist. The other one was about what happens when Goku is not around for good, and it was basically a journey towards going to the past to find Goku.

So, for stories that are suppose to deviate from Goku, one has pretty much Goku with a scar and an attitude, and the other the promise of Goku saving the day.

[jjgp1112]

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

In the case of Dragon Ball, some of the best material to come out of the franchise barely has Goku in it. The Bardock TV special and the Future Trunks TV special stand as some of the best stories to ever come out of Dragon Ball. And they have nothing to do with Goku beyond glorified camoes.

But they still ostensibly tie back to Goku. Why does this still keep being brought up? Both specials treat Goku as a light at the end of the tunnel, and in the History of Trunks, Goku's absence is a key factor in things being so fucked up. It's the grim conclusion of the "If only Goku were here" trope. He still hangs over both specials.

And they are examples of how you can keep Goku's spirit alive in the narrative without him even being there. The main story could potentially go the same route.

But. They're. One-Offs.

[Skar]

Hell, that's basically what Araki did with JJBA. There's always a new protagonist for each new installment in the story, but the main charm and unique fashion of which it tells its story remained largely unchanged. And that still didn't prevent Araki from experimenting in new ways to tell a story and it lead the later parts of JJBA being some of the best material in the franchise.

JJBA did establish it was a generational story early on though and it's only a handful of volumes for each arc. DB has 519 chapters with Goku as the main character which I believe is longer than the first four JJBA parts combined.

I don't think it's impossible to tell good stories in the DB universe without Goku but we've only had short spin-offs like the TV specials, Hero's Legacy, Neko Majin, Jaco, and the Yamcha Reincarnation story so I don't know if they would consider it this late. There have been some good fan comics focusing on other characters but those would also qualify as short spin-offs since their entire story is shorter than any major DB arc.

[ABED]

The main character getting phased out of a show or disappearing altogether is like one of the most premier "Jump the shark" triggers. Hell, wouldn't doubt that also played a role in Toriyama changing his mind.

Shows have to do what they have to do sometimes. It's not like anyone plans for the main character to leave the show, but when the unexpected happens the showrunners must find a way to keep the series going. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do in the world of television. Often times the show itself is bigger than any one character.

If someone instead makes a deliberate choice to replace the main character, like Toriyama did, then that wouldn't necessarily result in any shark jumping for the series. That would depend on a variety of different factors.

That's more of a case when it's a live action show. There's nothing wrong with it but how many shows can you think of that had the lead actor(s) leave and the show was as good as it used to be. Another thing that such shows have going against them is lead actors leave after an extended run and the show is was already long in the tooth.

Why do so many of the proponents of moving past Goku seem to think keeping Goku around is what's keeping DB from being creatively vital again?

[MasenkoHA]

Why do so many of the proponents of moving past Goku seem to think keeping Goku around is what's keeping DB from being creatively vital again?

Better yet, why do so many think Dragon Ball needs to continue indefinitely?