English version with cool music???

[Cure Dragon 255]

I gotta say, AND keep in mind I say this as a Kikuchi fan...Let people watch Dragon Ball the way they want to watch it. You wouldnt like it if someone forced you to watch the version they prefer. Nor you would like that pushy person at all.

[jjgp1112]

Disagree. DBZ music is Hong Kong 70s-type music, while DBZ is Sci-Fi. It fits DB which is martial arts based, but not DBZ. Star Wars has samurai/western influences, but the music fits Sci-Fi. I remember watching the Freeza vs. Goku fight in Japanese, and nearly burst out laughing when the original Dragon Ball theme started to play while they fought.

There's a reason DBZ video game OSTs for the SNES and PlayStation don't sound like the show and why Super's OST sounds more like Falcouner.

EDIT: I will say though that the best Japanese DBZ music like Solid State Scouter, Battle Points, and Unmei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Falcouner.

Breh, what???? Just because DBZ has some surface level sci-fi elements doesn't make it any less a martial arts series. There were Wuxia movies at the time doing the exact same type of stuff Dragon Ball Z was doing. The most sci-fi Dragon Ball Z gets is the Android saga, which is basically "Kung-Fu but with Terminator's plot.

The video game OSTs is...such a bizarre point. The video game OSTs for the SNES and PS1 sound that way because...well, that's just how fighting games sounded back then! The SNES, I mean c'mon - that's a 16bit console. Not even worth mentioning. And for PS1, the games' soundtracks are exactly what was in line with other fighting game OST's like Street Fighter. By the time the Budokai games came around, Yamamoto was making music that was a blend of the series OST and contemporary rock. By your logic, Toei should've been inclined to go tehcno for Kai, but instead it was just like the Budokai soundtrack.

Buu Kai and Early Super's soundtracks sound the way they do because Toei gave Sumitomo neither the money nor the time to compose and arrange more elaborate stuff. And so with limited time, Sumitomo went with the synthesizer to make life easier. And it was largely TERRIBLE. By the time we get to the Tournament of Power and Broly, it's all orchestral stuff.

Akira Toriyama is a huge fan of western Sci-Fi movies, and by DBZ, that started to take over. Aliens, space ships, other planets. I've seen a bunch of Wuxia movies and absolutely none of them were like the Freeza saga. Shoot, rejuvenation tanks were literally straight from The Empire Strikes back. And as you mentioned, the Android Saga is Dragon Ball 2: Judgement Day. Human-oid robots that kill 99% of the planet in the future; the robots turned against their creator within seconds; a kid with a bowl cut is the future's last hope; etc. etc. The Wuxia influences are all but gone by then (they were gone pretty much the second Raditz showed up). By then, saying DBZ is Wuxia would be like saying Star Wars is samurai because they fight with swords or a western because they use blasters.

And one other thing I hate about the Japanese music is that they re-used everything all the time. For example:

When Goku takes the offensive, you get this theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WKcOoPontY

when Freeza kicks Goku's ass, it's the same exact theme (go to 2:22): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_S1dFsbqG4

Someone mentioned John Williams earlier. John knew not to give Luke the same theme as Vader did. In the Japanese dub, the music doesn't fit what you see a LOT of the times.

Kai fixed a lot of those problems (when 50% Freeza kicks Goku's ass the music is more ominous now for example) but I don't like it.

Then Falcouner just did way better in epic moments. Vegeta's Final Flash, Goku going Super Saiyan 3, Vegeta turning Super Saiyain, Gohan killing Cell.... HNNNNGGGG. Oh man, makes me want to rewatch those moments.

When Krillin says "TRUNKS LET'S GET OUT!" then the piano starts then "FIIINAAL FLASH!!" HNNNNNNGGGGGGG.......

...Are you criticizing the Japanese score for having general fighting music that's not tied to any one character or moment? Because we can play that game with the Faulconer score or hell, basically any long running TV series in any genre. The Faulconer score, especially during the Frieza saga is hella repetitive. Are you gonna criticize the dub score for using this song (among others) in various different scenes?

And as for the rest of your post...again, this is all surface level stuff. The mere presence of sci-fi elements doesn't erase the entire tone. There are Wuxia movies in various settings that I'm sure Kunzait would be able to drop in.

[jjgp1112]

I gotta say, AND keep in mind I say this as a Kikuchi fan...Let people watch Dragon Ball the way the want to watch it. You wouldnt like it if someone forced you to watch the version they prefer. Nor you would like that pushy person at all.

Nobody's saying that he can't enjoy it, we're simply pointing how ridiculous his argument is.

[McDonaldsGuy]

...Are you criticizing the Japanese score for having general fighting music that's not tied to any one character or moment? Because we can play that game with the Faulconer score or hell, basically any long running TV series in any genre. The Faulconer score, especially during the Frieza saga is hella repetitive. Are you gonna criticize the dub score for using this song (among others) in various different scenes?

And as for the rest of your post...again, this is all surface level stuff. The mere presence of sci-fi elements doesn't erase the entire tone. There are Wuxia movies in various settings that I'm sure Kunzait would be able to drop in.

I am not against generic fight music, but the music never fits the tone of the scene. Freeza kicking Goku around shouldn't be the same music as when Goku goes on the offense against Freeza. Kai (and Super) fixed this problem and the music is totally different for that reason. This happens in the Japanese dub a LOT, when the music doesn't fit the scene.

The DBZ Japanese score (which is the weakest in the series) reuses The World's Strongest/Tree of Might music a LOT. It recycles a LOT of DB music (as I said, they played the DB theme when Goku fought Freeza!). You gotta like the themes in Japanese, cause you're going to hear them every 10 seconds.

Look at Vegeta's Final Flash scene:

Japanese version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUy8GBNd46k

Falcouner - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugdge3Cn9L0

It's not even a comparison. Falcouner has more emotional impact with one note on a piano than Kikuchi's entire orchestra. Falcouner's score is Mega Man X, Final Fantasy, and Street Fighter tier. I can't watch the show without it.

Dang, I am pumped up now listening to Falcouner's score. Now I wanna work out. Solid State Scouter does that for me also.

[McDonaldsGuy]

I gotta say, AND keep in mind I say this as a Kikuchi fan...Let people watch Dragon Ball the way they want to watch it. You wouldnt like it if someone forced you to watch the version they prefer. Nor you would like that pushy person at all.

Well I mean this is a discussion board..... if we'd all agree there'd be no discussion lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

That actually had the opposite effect you wanted. That track used for the Final Flash scene in Japanese I have not heard all that often and I like it more that way. I do agree that the SS Vegeta Falconer track is SUPER COOL.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I gotta say, AND keep in mind I say this as a Kikuchi fan...Let people watch Dragon Ball the way they want to watch it. You wouldnt like it if someone forced you to watch the version they prefer. Nor you would like that pushy person at all.

Well I mean this is a discussion board..... if we'd all agree there'd be no discussion lol

I meant that to defend you. People are piling on you and I felt that was unfair. I meant to be on your side. I think people are really unfair to Falconer fans.

[Tylerman29]

I meant that to defend you. People are piling on you and I felt that was unfair. I meant to be on your side. I think people are really unfair to Falconer fans.

The so called "piling" was more so towards the OP. His statements have been very strange and ignorant.

[jjgp1112]

I gotta say, AND keep in mind I say this as a Kikuchi fan...Let people watch Dragon Ball the way they want to watch it. You wouldnt like it if someone forced you to watch the version they prefer. Nor you would like that pushy person at all.

Well I mean this is a discussion board..... if we'd all agree there'd be no discussion lol

I meant that to defend you. People are piling on you and I felt that was unfair. I meant to be on your side. I think people are really unfair to Falconer fans.

People are "piling on" because his assessment of DBZ's tone is bogus.

To say Dragon Ball is less marrtial arts focused just because of the presence of sci-fi elements is ludicrous, especially when "Sci-fi" has been part of the show from the beginning. What makes it less of a martial arts show? The use of energy attacks vs. hand to hand combat? It couldn't be that, because the entire basis of the "Ki" is an element of martial arts fantasy. It's shifting from one style to another.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

That's the Faulconer Productions OST. It's considered by most the definitive Z soundtrack.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Every time someone pulls the ol “Faulconer music fits Z better because Z is Sci-fi” I die on the inside. How hard is to just say “I like this music better” or “This is what I grew up with so this is how I prefer it” no need to justify with some bs logic that a completely clueless company that couldn’t even get info on the show it was dubbing right just knew the series better than Toei or all the other companies that dubbed the show and left the music alone.

You’re just gonna snap your back in two making a reach that bad.

Yeah honestly...you can like one more than the other but to suggest Faulconer is the way Z was meant to be heard is absurd...it was purely a cheesy replacement soundtrack in an effort to make it more like an American cartoon. In no way does it fit with Dragon Ball. Period.

Agreed. There's an English dub of an anime called Cybercity Oedo 808 where the...story...was pretty well-translated, but the dialogue absolutely wasn't. They added a lot of heavy curse words where there weren't any, and they replaced the existing score with a more rock/metal-based score. It's pretty cheesy, and not a particularly great adaptation of the source material.

And I freaking love it.

So when people say, "Then you don't really like Cybercity Oedo 808, because the dub doesn't really represent the true show," my answer is an instant, "Agreed, I don't contest that at all. I really like that weird, not-especially-good adaptation of the show, not the show itself." There doesn't have to be any shame in admitting that you like an altered version of something more than the original version as long as you're not claiming that that's how the show "was meant to be seen."

That's the Faulconer Productions OST. It's considered by most the definitive Z soundtrack.

Only in certain parts of America and the English-speaking world. Across the English-speaking fandom, it's pretty divided what the "best/definitive" score is...which is in contrast with the rest of the world, because every other dub kept the original score. So it's not really considered the definitive soundtrack by "most."

[jjgp1112]

. You gotta like the themes in Japanese, cause you're going to hear them every 10 seconds.

Time out.

THIS argument is the one you choose to use to criticize the Kikuchi score in comparison to the Faulconer score???? The score where the music literally never stops playing for even a second?

The Faulconer score recycles plenty of songs across scenes of different tones. It reused a lot of songs period. If you were to play a drinking game for how many times this song pops up in the Cell Games saga, you'd be intoxicated halfway through one episode.

Hell, the song throughout most of the Final Flash scene in the dub score is a song busted out for every intense scene. So what is your point, exactly? And you bring up the use of the Dragon Ball theme in the fight - do you know what leitmotifs are? The Dragon Ball theme, up until the Cell saga, was ostensibly used as Goku's theme song. The Faulconer score makes extensive use of leitmotif, which is actually one of its strengths, so I'm not quite sure how that's a negative against the Kikuchi score if we're keeping score and comparing.

[jjgp1112]

That's the Faulconer Productions OST. It's considered by most the definitive Z soundtrack.

Who is "most" exactly? American fans?

(I think any long time user who was around here in 2009 /10 couldn't possibly fathom me being on the other side of this argument, but here we are)

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

That's the Faulconer Productions OST. It's considered by most the definitive Z soundtrack.

Who is "most" exactly? American fans?

(I think any long time user who was around here in 2009 /10 couldn't possibly fathom me being on the other side of this argument, but here we are)

Well it's not like Faulconer Productions OST aired else where. So yes. late 90s early 2000s Cartoon Network boom is the peak of Z in viewers in America. Streaming apps that host old anime won't ever compare to afterschool TV viewers back then.

[Soppa Saia People]

well then what was the point of your post then... it's obviously not considered to the definitive score for most fans, even among fans in the states it's always been super contested. not to be rude but i think your initial post was just to instigate.

[MasenkoHA]

It recycles a LOT of DB music (as I said, they played the DB theme when Goku fought Freeza!)

Hold up. Hold up. DRAGON BALL Z recycled music from DRAGON BALL? That’s just nuts. Imagine, DRAGON BALL Z using music from DRAGON BALL. Like what were they thinking? That Z was a rebranding of Dragon Ball or something?!?

. You gotta like the themes in Japanese, cause you're going to hear them every 10 seconds.

Riiiiiight. As opposed to the Faulconer score where they can’t resist playing a character’s theme every time the character is on screen. I don’t even think Kikuchi’s theme for Yadjirobe is even used after the scene in the Saiyan arc where he talks to the reporters. Piccolo’s Japanese theme is used less and less as the series goes. Makafushigi Adventure instrumental is used frequently as a motif for Goku in the original Dragon Ball. And almost never in Z.

[Majin Buu]

Every time someone pulls the ol “Faulconer music fits Z better because Z is Sci-fi” I die on the inside. How hard is to just say “I like this music better” or “This is what I grew up with so this is how I prefer it” no need to justify with some bs logic that a completely clueless company that couldn’t even get info on the show it was dubbing right just knew the series better than Toei or all the other companies that dubbed the show and left the music alone.

Needing to retroactively justify the Faulconer replacement score's existence with backwards logic like that is a common thing among quite a few Faulconer fans. It's like an aggressive inferiority complex.

(I think any long time user who was around here in 2009 /10 couldn't possibly fathom me being on the other side of this argument, but here we are)

[dragonmagico]

That's the Faulconer Productions OST. It's considered by most the definitive Z soundtrack.

Who is "most" exactly? American fans?

(I think any long time user who was around here in 2009 /10 couldn't possibly fathom me being on the other side of this argument, but here we are)

Well it's not like Faulconer Productions OST aired else where. So yes. late 90s early 2000s Cartoon Network boom is the peak of Z in viewers in America. Streaming apps that host old anime won't ever compare to afterschool TV viewers back then.

It aired in canada, the uk, and i think some other english airing parts of europe. before they switched to westwood.